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Author Topic: Flex 6400M vs. Icom 7610 ?  (Read 113651 times)
KA4DPO
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« Reply #60 on: June 29, 2017, 12:44:55 PM »

The guys at HRO said the 7610 will not be out till October or later...

I can wait, the Flex 6400 probably will not be out for at least another year anyway.  Just a guess but based on the IC-7300 sales I would expect the Icom to outsell the Flex offerings by a pretty wide margin.  Maybe they should drag a 7610 to their booth at Hamvention next year and do their best to publically bad mouth it.  You know, maybe smash it with a hammer first just to make sure it will perform poorly. That might turn the tables for them. Roll Eyes
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N0YXB
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« Reply #61 on: June 29, 2017, 12:52:02 PM »

The guys at HRO said the 7610 will not be out till October or later...

Just a guess but based on the IC-7300 sales I would expect the Icom to outsell the Flex offerings by a pretty wide margin. 

I believe you are correct. I also suspect Icom has to sell more units than Flex in order to make a profit.
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N4UE
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« Reply #62 on: June 29, 2017, 01:55:02 PM »

The guys at HRO said the 7610 will not be out till October or later...

I can wait, the Flex 6400 probably will not be out for at least another year anyway.  Just a guess but based on the IC-7300 sales I would expect the Icom to outsell the Flex offerings by a pretty wide margin.  Maybe they should drag a 7610 to their booth at Hamvention next year and do their best to publically bad mouth it.  You know, maybe smash it with a hammer first just to make sure it will perform poorly. That might turn the tables for them. Roll Eyes

This reminds me of a similar experience back at IBM/Lexmark before I retired. We were in a constant "one-upsmanship" battle with HP. I don't know about now, but back then, HP bought their printer 'engines' from Canon. They put on their logos, etc. They produced a similar 'snarky' video about how their printer was 'better' than ours.
My MGT chain had me build one of their printers with loose 'guts' and we tossed it off the 3rd floor roof of our Engineering building. When it hit the parking lot, it was like a mini mushroom cloud. My buddy also took an HP to the target range and shot it on video,
Of course, you couldn't do that today, but it was a GREAT morale booster. ha ha

ron
N4UE
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K8EZB
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« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2017, 06:05:17 PM »

Why choose now? Buy both, use for awhile, sell the one you like least.

While you're at it, why not burn a big pile of money?

Well ... looks like both can likely be purchased for under $10K. For some, $10K is "a big pile of money." For others, not so much. My point was that both radios are likely to be in demand and the one sold would likely bring top dollar, so not such a big pile.
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KC9NRN
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« Reply #64 on: June 30, 2017, 10:48:07 AM »

KC9NRN

I haven't used the 6400 but it has slightly better specs than the 6300.  It has a little stronger RMDR and has a somewhat better array of I/O including a 10mhz GPIO.  It's basically a budget thing.  I think a factory refurb 6300 is going to be one hell of a deal for someone wanting to give Flex style SDR a whirl.  Personally I never found a situation where the better RMDR would have made any difference given my antenna situation.  If you're into receive antennas like loops and flags and such the extra antenna ports are quite useful especially if your using these extra antennas from a remote device. 

So for me the determining factor would be the kind of station I would be integrating into.  The 6300 can manage 3 possible antennas or 2 and a transverter, the 6400 can manage 4, or 3 and a transverter.  On the other hand there is the joy of owning the latest.  If budget wasn't an issue I would get a 6700.  My main interest is DXing.  If contesting is your main interest a 6600 is your hands down winner.  If you have some xtra ham money, you're happy with your antennas and amp, and want the latest a 6400.  Right now I'm keeping my 6300 as a backup since it drops directly into my software lineup with virtually no changes if I have an issue with my 6700 and it's paid for.     

73  W9OY

I thought about trading for the 6400, I would love the 6600 but that is out of my budget for now. The 6400 is supposed to do better receive than the 6300, the trade in value isn't bad so it wouldn't be a huge cost to move from the 6300 to the 6400.
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W1BG
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« Reply #65 on: July 01, 2017, 08:14:21 PM »

The 7610 was suddenly pulled back to Japan immediately after some bugs were discovered at Dayton. Serious enough of an issue that the demo rig did not make it to Ham-Com in Dallas this year, which pissed off some folks that went there hoping to see it.  Icom folks at Dallas were telling folks "October~November time frame" which at best is a soft date.  Its for sure they have a lot of pre-orders to fill.  If I'm lucky I may see mine by Valentine's day.

Flex is still telling folks "August~September time frame" on the 6400M.  I ordered one of those as well just as a hedge.  Figure I'll sell the one I like the least.  Not especially enthused about the 800 x 480 VGA resolution from the 7610. Perhaps a little prettier rig but sure hard to ignore that 1980 x 1200 4k UHD video coming out of the Flex. Gosh. The 6400M is also a dual receiver (contrary to what someone else posted earlier).  The Flex also has a nice 10-band tx EQ and supports Synchronous AM reception (nice for SWL'ing) and both AM & SSB rx audio extending down to 50Hz on the bottom end (7610 rx filter chops off at 200hz).  There are ample differences in the two rigs to make one or the other compelling depending on one's preferences.  Right now I'm leaning toward the Flex but will reserve judgment until they're here.

Also interesting that the 7610 does not appear that it will have 70 Mhz (4 meters) for our UK friends. That's kind of an interesting departure from the 7300.

« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 08:20:39 PM by W1BG » Logged

The Pay-TV Industry may not hold the patent on poor customer service, but Comcast in particular has made an art form of it.
VE3TCV
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« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2017, 06:27:41 AM »

Just want it our folks, don't rush into either radio as they are yet to be released and everyone is just guessing on how they will work based on data charts.  Just calm down and let the dust settle, I'm sure all of your current $2000-$9000 radios will work fine in the meantime Smiley
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GM1FLQ
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« Reply #67 on: July 26, 2017, 02:11:35 PM »

"But I want, I want, I need, Ineed.........."

            

 Just calm down and let the dust settle................
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 02:35:04 PM by GM1FLQ » Logged
K0IZ
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« Reply #68 on: July 26, 2017, 06:47:31 PM »

Elecraft has two good SDR's, KX2 and KX3.  So my guess is that a SDR replacement for the K3 is not too far down the road.   Elecraft products are well engineered, so a SDR K4 (or whatever) should be a standout.
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KA4DPO
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Posts: 1271




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« Reply #69 on: July 27, 2017, 08:37:59 AM »

The 7610 was suddenly pulled back to Japan immediately after some bugs were discovered at Dayton. Serious enough of an issue that the demo rig did not make it to Ham-Com in Dallas this year, which pissed off some folks that went there hoping to see it.  Icom folks at Dallas were telling folks "October~November time frame" which at best is a soft date.  Its for sure they have a lot of pre-orders to fill.  If I'm lucky I may see mine by Valentine's day.

Flex is still telling folks "August~September time frame" on the 6400M.  I ordered one of those as well just as a hedge.  Figure I'll sell the one I like the least.  Not especially enthused about the 800 x 480 VGA resolution from the 7610. Perhaps a little prettier rig but sure hard to ignore that 1980 x 1200 4k UHD video coming out of the Flex. Gosh. The 6400M is also a dual receiver (contrary to what someone else posted earlier).  The Flex also has a nice 10-band tx EQ and supports Synchronous AM reception (nice for SWL'ing) and both AM & SSB rx audio extending down to 50Hz on the bottom end (7610 rx filter chops off at 200hz).  There are ample differences in the two rigs to make one or the other compelling depending on one's preferences.  Right now I'm leaning toward the Flex but will reserve judgment until they're here.

Also interesting that the 7610 does not appear that it will have 70 Mhz (4 meters) for our UK friends. That's kind of an interesting departure from the 7300.


I think the move to review the design was a very prudent one on Icoms part.  It would be bad for business to show up at a major ham radio convention with a defective product.  All new rigs go through a similar process, Elecraft had to fix a lot of bugs after releasing the original K3 because they could not afford to go back to the factory and wait, a luxury that big manufacturers like Icom have.

I guess I don't see why you think that's a bad thing?  Like the IC-7300 they will come to the market with a radio that works and doesn't need a bunch of patches and firmware updates to make it work correctly.  I for one, appreciate that kind of diligence by any company.

As for 70MHZ, that is not present on a lot of rigs because it requires the addition of a different band pass filter, transmit mixing, and filtering arrangement for a very small market segment so I am certain it is purely an economic issue.  And who cares anyway, the majority of the market is here in the US so 50 MHZ makes sense, besides they can also use it in the UK.
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KX2T
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« Reply #70 on: August 06, 2017, 09:45:52 PM »

Sorry but the KX2&KX3 radio's are zero IF DSP based radio's, not true SDR radio's like the Flex or the Icom's 7300/7610, they may want to make you think its SDR like but they are not, its a real slick system for a simple design.
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W6RZ
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Posts: 345




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« Reply #71 on: August 06, 2017, 11:52:00 PM »

Sorry but the KX2&KX3 radio's are zero IF DSP based radio's, not true SDR radio's like the Flex or the Icom's 7300/7610, they may want to make you think its SDR like but they are not, its a real slick system for a simple design.

This is a "true" SDR.

https://www.ettus.com/product/details/UB200-KIT

The Icom, Flex and Elecraft products are appliances. Can you create a signal like this with them?



DSP code is here.

https://github.com/drmpeg/gr-paint
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GM1FLQ
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« Reply #72 on: August 07, 2017, 05:57:36 AM »



This is a "true" SDR.

https://www.ettus.com/product/details/UB200-KIT

The Icom, Flex and Elecraft products are appliances. Can you create a signal like this with them?



No, that'll never stimulate the kiddies, apparently needs to be kinda more like this............

                  

                   .............. Grin
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 06:01:41 AM by GM1FLQ » Logged
N0YXB
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Posts: 1517




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« Reply #73 on: August 07, 2017, 07:52:42 AM »

The Icom, Flex and Elecraft products are appliances.

All very nice radios with their fans and detractors. I'm sure I'd be happy with any of them.

The USRP B200 does look interesting though.
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K7JQ
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Posts: 1186




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« Reply #74 on: August 07, 2017, 08:13:21 AM »

The USRP B200 does look interesting though.

Designed for low cost experimentation...$745. I guess for some, and their intentions, it's "low cost". Smiley
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