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Author Topic: Flex 6400M vs. Icom 7610 ?  (Read 120781 times)
N6YFM
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Posts: 831




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« Reply #150 on: November 20, 2017, 11:01:21 PM »

Now on Flex's Buy pages, they announced the 6400, 6400M, 6600, and 6600M availability as: "Shipment estimated in early 2018".    Does that mean the first shipments in 2018 are for the current crop of pre-orders already in, or is that the shipping date for a radio that is ordered now?

73, Ed VE3WGO

Yes.   While the Flex market/sales staff at all the USA ham shows this year are trying to spin it like the pre-orders get theirs now, and
new orders are in a "second production run" in February 2018, the reality is that they simply have not ramped production yet and have not
yet gotten them out the door.  Else, you would be reading end-user-reviews this week. 
I have spoken to employees, and the first shipments start slowly in late December, with better volumes claimed to be ramping into February. 
I am interested in the 6600 model, with a separate Maestro.   The built in "M" version with attached knobs are stupid, because nothing
that fat/tall/large is going to fit in your operating position under a monitor, or in the typically 6 to 8 inch high shelf units on your table.
The 6600 belongs under the desk or off to the side, and the Maestro belongs wherever I choose to carry it on the property :-)
Just my usage-case for me.

Cheers
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K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 3043




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« Reply #151 on: November 21, 2017, 06:46:37 AM »

Yes.   While the Flex market/sales staff at all the USA ham shows this year are trying to spin it like the pre-orders get theirs now, and new orders are in a "second production run" in February 2018, the reality is that they simply have not ramped production yet and have not yet gotten them out the door. 

So what else is new? Flexradio has not met a promise deadline in their existence. They do not meet software promise deadlines nor radio production promise deadlines. They only lie (and it IS lying) because they need to keep the Reservation Money Flow ($$$$$) coming in, so they can actually afford to produce the radios.

Stan K9IUQ
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KA4DPO
Member

Posts: 1320




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« Reply #152 on: November 21, 2017, 08:27:11 AM »

Yes.   While the Flex market/sales staff at all the USA ham shows this year are trying to spin it like the pre-orders get theirs now, and new orders are in a "second production run" in February 2018, the reality is that they simply have not ramped production yet and have not yet gotten them out the door. 

So what else is new? Flexradio has not met a promise deadline in their existence. They do not meet software promise deadlines nor radio production promise deadlines. They only lie (and it IS lying) because they need to keep the Reservation Money Flow ($$$$$) coming in, so they can actually afford to produce the radios.

Stan K9IUQ


I have been in this hobby for a long time and I have seen dozens of American amateur radio manufacturers go under because of competition in the market.  If you hams that you plan to deliver product X on Y date, then you had better be close. 

For a while Flex had the SDR nich cornered and people were willing to wait but now there is competition, and not just from Icom either.  The next two years will be interesting to see what direction the amateur radio market takes and who will deliver the goods.
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KF7DS
Member

Posts: 314




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« Reply #153 on: November 21, 2017, 09:47:05 PM »

Yes.   While the Flex market/sales staff at all the USA ham shows this year are trying to spin it like the pre-orders get theirs now, and new orders are in a "second production run" in February 2018, the reality is that they simply have not ramped production yet and have not yet gotten them out the door. 

So what else is new? Flexradio has not met a promise deadline in their existence. They do not meet software promise deadlines nor radio production promise deadlines. They only lie (and it IS lying) because they need to keep the Reservation Money Flow ($$$$$) coming in, so they can actually afford to produce the radios.

Stan K9IUQ

The inability to meet promised deadlines is another reason I sold my 6300-promised features never materialized in the year I owned it.
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W6UV
Member

Posts: 1092




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« Reply #154 on: November 22, 2017, 10:00:07 AM »

Forget Flex... I wonder how the 7610 compares to the Elecraft K3S? I think the 7610 is more of a competitor of the K3S than it is the Flex.
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N2DTS
Member

Posts: 965




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« Reply #155 on: November 22, 2017, 12:09:38 PM »

The Icom is cheaper is it not?


Forget Flex... I wonder how the 7610 compares to the Elecraft K3S? I think the 7610 is more of a competitor of the K3S than it is the Flex.
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W6UV
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Posts: 1092




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« Reply #156 on: November 22, 2017, 12:17:14 PM »

The Icom is cheaper is it not?


Forget Flex... I wonder how the 7610 compares to the Elecraft K3S? I think the 7610 is more of a competitor of the K3S than it is the Flex.

Yes, for comparable configurations, but is it as capable as a K3S? That's the real question. Cheaper is not better if it doesn't perform as well.
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K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 3043




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« Reply #157 on: November 22, 2017, 05:43:58 PM »

[but is it as capable as a K3S? That's the real question. Cheaper is not better if it doesn't perform as well.

No it is not the question for many hams. Few hams need what the K3S provides - high performance and poor ergonomics. IMO Icom products provide acceptable performance and excellent ergonomics. More important for many hams is - - Icom provides Value for the dollar or Bang for the Buck.

You could never say that about any Elecraft product. Elecraft products are excellent but priced as high as possible with few meaningful sales. Many hams are willing to pay high prices for top performance. Other hams want Bang for the Buck. Cheaper can be better especially since the everyday Joe Ham would not (can not) appreciate a radio like an Elecraft.

Stan K9IUQ 
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W6UV
Member

Posts: 1092




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« Reply #158 on: November 22, 2017, 06:31:14 PM »

[but is it as capable as a K3S? That's the real question. Cheaper is not better if it doesn't perform as well.

No it is not the question for many hams. Few hams need what the K3S provides - high performance and poor ergonomics. IMO Icom products provide acceptable performance and excellent ergonomics. More important for many hams is - - Icom provides Value for the dollar or Bang for the Buck.

But I'm not just any ham because I do value high performance and not rock bottom price. I'll pay more to get quality and performance.

Ergonomics are subjective anyway. I happen to think the ergonomics of the K3S are very nice and, based on playing with an IC-7300 for a few hours, I think Icom ergonomics aren't so great.
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KX2T
Member

Posts: 1103




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« Reply #159 on: November 28, 2017, 11:53:00 AM »

I ask you Elecraft users one thing and that is why a multi multi winning station like K3LR uses Icom 7851's over any other radio and this may change when the 7610 gets to be shipped soon, if the K3S was that much better why does that station use Icom at a cost of more than double a fully loaded K3S with all the trimmings. Fact is those guys on the west coast have be ridding that wave and are starting to lose steam, the K3 syndrome is over, ugliest radio ever, poor RX audio, a menu system which has to be the worst ever and except for giving them out to every tom dick and harry DX peditions they are losing ground plus the kit thing doesn't save that much and your only doing mechanical assembly anyway so the chest beating I built it is way overrated it not even close to the old Heathkits cause like myself and many who have been in this hobby I am sure we have all built at least one of there transceivers and linear amps.
Icom has clearly place the 7610 out before Flex, they dont make promises they cant keep, yes they shocked everyone at Dayton this year but there radio's are still vaporware. Its also funny that the Icom 7300 has out sold ANY radio manufactured in a little over two years time world wide, yes 20,000 of one model number and to complement that Elecraft has made comparisons on there site with the K3S at a bones basic version at $3k compared to a radio selling for a little over $1K, yes the K3s number in a lab test are better but not by enough to warrant the investment.
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NI8R
Member

Posts: 323




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« Reply #160 on: November 28, 2017, 06:23:46 PM »

I ask you Elecraft users one thing and that is why a multi multi winning station like K3LR uses Icom 7851's over any other radio

I have owned both, i can tell you why he uses the 7851. I love my 7851.

But, if it was down to rig or antenna, and i was short on money. i would have a room full of k3s with huge towers and great antennas. Not fancy icom 7851 radio's.

K3lr is not short on cash, so i am going to guess he gets what he wants. Like flex, i am sure icom subsidized his purchase to put that name all through the shack for the name recognition..

The blazing smooth audio, dsp, filtering, dynamic range, natural placement of knobs and simple menu adjustments make the rig unbeatable.

With a mixer board and a great set of speakers, you can make do with the k3s, the 7851 is not 5k better.

Greg ni8r
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N6YFM
Member

Posts: 831




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« Reply #161 on: November 29, 2017, 03:46:11 PM »

This thread title is wrong.  The proper comparison, apples to apples for
features and dual simultaneous receive on two different antennas, is
between a Flex 6600 and an Icom 7610.  NOT a Flex 6400.

The Flex 6400 series, while having two digital receivers, only has one "front end with antenna switch".
This means that it can not do diversity receive, and it can not have one VFO on antenna 1 and another
VFO on antenna jack 2.   Both have to use ONE of the antenna jacks at the same time.

Now;  If you compare the Flex 6600 series and the Icom 7610;  the features match;
Both machines have dual front ends completely, right up to the antenna switching.
You can have one receiver on antenna jack 1 and the other receiver on antenna jack 2, and they both
can be on any band, including the same band for comparing two antenna's on the same frequency.

So if this thread is to make any sense, and have any value, the title should be changed to
compare the Flex 6600 and the Icom 7610.

Neal
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N3HEE
Member

Posts: 585


WWW

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« Reply #162 on: November 30, 2017, 06:31:24 AM »

The big advantage of the 6600 is full duplex operation.  It also has built in bandpass filtering.  Think SO2R in a box.  This capability will save quite a bit of $$$ for the SO2R operator.  Also nice having 4 slice receivers and a higher resolution monitor output.  So I will wait until Flex starts delivering radios and see how they perform.  No rush to jump on anything just yet. 
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Joe
N3HEE
CW Academy Advisor (Level II)
KS4JU
Member

Posts: 62




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« Reply #163 on: November 30, 2017, 06:57:52 AM »

Some Gigaparts customers are saying that their 7610 orders have shipped and should be in their hands next week.
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KA4DPO
Member

Posts: 1320




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« Reply #164 on: November 30, 2017, 08:31:36 AM »

The big advantage of the 6600 is full duplex operation.  It also has built in bandpass filtering.  Think SO2R in a box.  This capability will save quite a bit of $$$ for the SO2R operator.  Also nice having 4 slice receivers and a higher resolution monitor output.  So I will wait until Flex starts delivering radios and see how they perform.  No rush to jump on anything just yet. 

Sure, so if Flex ever starts selling the 6600M then that just might be a good comparison.  Especially since the 6600M will cost considerably more than the Icom.  Even better, why compare them at all?  They cater to two very different types of amateur hobbyist.   Just because Flex is adding a Maestro front panel to the 6400 and 6600, they will still be subject to all of the Flex twiddle and fiddle with software and applications while the Icoms just work as advertised right out of the box.
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