Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

donate to eham
   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 [2] 3 4 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Power Level In England  (Read 11463 times)
K1VCT
Member

Posts: 186




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2017, 07:42:31 PM »

Quote
That explains my lack of DX contacts from the UK

I wouldnt put any of the blame on the UK hams; they have to hear you first.

Carl

No blame.   Just lots of rest of Europe seems to do pretty well.
Logged
MM0IMC
Member

Posts: 230




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2017, 12:14:00 AM »

Probably because they have higher power levels and monster antenna farms that we can only dream of, here in the UK!  Shocked
Logged
VK3BL
Member

Posts: 1789


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2017, 04:59:10 AM »

The power levels are a joke in VK; 400 Watts PEP or 120 Watts Continuous.

Why are they a joke? Because we're in the midst of closing down all our community radio stations, and even most of Radio Australia's shortwave sites.

These days, an RF Engineer is more likely to be able to tell you about passive intermod on 5-50 watt cell phone sites than how to setup and maintain a clean MW/SW transmitter.

If our authorities don't pull their heads out and let Amateurs self train with "entry level" broadcast power, I fear that the skillset will be completely lost from this country.  Even the most poorly made cables and antennas will generally cope with 400 Watts PEP; 1000 Watts CCS is something else entirely.

As for RFI / EMR, I don't know how those 1kW licensees managed to stuff that up; we even had WIA endorsed calculator tools available to do the maths for you!

On the other hand, suburban noise continues to rise, and the roll out of NBN's VDSL is only going to make things worse. Baseband to 18MHz over barely twisted copper pairs, with no one bothering to disconnect the 30+ meters of cobweb telephony wiring in the average house.  Talk about radiating rubbish everywhere.

I don't care if I have to pass an 'Advanced Extra' exam or similar to get access to proper power limits; after all, Amateur Radio is about self education...

Anyway, thats my little rant on the subject; I wish our national body would actually get off their bottoms and do something useful for us.

Tom W8JI puts it best... almost anything will work at QRP, with no noticeable problems.  Real QRO pushes you to make sure your entire TX chain is efficient.  A 10% system loss @ 120 Watts CCS is almost certainly going to go unnoticed; 10% @ 1000 Watts will rear its ugly head rather quickly, and force you to learn from your mistakes.

At least I've got my dummy load...  I must say I get a certain amount of enjoyment testing cables, and using a sampler/spectrum analyser to find the sweet spot for a specific exciter / amplifier combination.  I'm just strange I guess... Wanting to learn and improve my skillset in an industry the government has decided is worthless.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 05:13:51 AM by VK3BL » Logged

J.D. Mitchell BA  - VK3BL / XU7AGA - https://www.youtube.com/ratemyradio - Honesty & Integrity
AA2UK
Member

Posts: 908




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2017, 06:31:05 AM »

PIM on In-building DAS cellular systems, something Anritsu re-emphasized to sell more equipment, certifications and training.
73, Bill
AA2UK
Logged
K6AER
Member

Posts: 5690




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2017, 06:50:33 AM »

Noise levels in urban neighborhoods are getting very high. With a dipole up 50 feet it is not uncommon to have S9 on 20 meters and S9+10 on 40 meters at night.

I brought up the power levels in England for in Michigan I and barely hear the stations over the local noise levels. They (The English) have the same problem but I can turn on the amp and make up for the poor signal conditions on my end. I am moving back to Colorado and hopefully my new country location will be much quieter.

Last summer we had a power failure and my noise level dropped to S3. Cheap LED bulbs are no helping at all.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 06:55:31 AM by K6AER » Logged
KM1H
Member

Posts: 5095




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2017, 08:33:30 AM »

Try a MFJ 1025/1026 to null out some of the noise. Ive also used a window level random wire at the property line on 20-40 to augment and even a 150' Beverage at times to minimize the crud from the yuppie neighbors.

And surprisingly, a 40/20M parallel "dipole" stapled around a 34x26' basement rafters is amazingly quiet and decent on RX. It is used with various boatanchors over at the repair bench.

I have already silenced all my own noise generators with enough ferrite to hold the house down in a hurricane. Roll Eyes

Carl
Logged
K6AER
Member

Posts: 5690




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2017, 08:43:09 AM »

I live on the river and the lots are only 70-100 feet wide. Turned off the home AC mains and the noise level did not change. I am very familiar with adjusting phase and amplitude to null out a noise source but when there is an avalanche from all directions it is time to move.
Logged
KM1H
Member

Posts: 5095




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2017, 09:00:29 AM »

My lot is 300' wide and the neighbors are 200' and they still make plenty of noise so the solutions I suggested do well.

It is a simple matter to inject a sufficient level of signal with experimenting and then do the phasing. You also have a river on one side for separation and I also have to contend with noise on 3 sides which are all in DX rich directions.

Some say those way overpriced DXE nullers do better but Ive not lost a contact yet with a used 1026.

Others have used a Waller Flag, fixed and rotary, with excellent results in dense neighborhoods for 80/160 where the noises are really loud.
Logged
HFCRUSR
Member

Posts: 350




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2017, 11:19:59 AM »

Try a MFJ 1025/1026 to null out some of the noise. Ive also used a window level random wire at the property line on 20-40 to augment and even a 150' Beverage at times to minimize the crud from the yuppie neighbors.

And surprisingly, a 40/20M parallel "dipole" stapled around a 34x26' basement rafters is amazingly quiet and decent on RX. It is used with various boatanchors over at the repair bench.

I have already silenced all my own noise generators with enough ferrite to hold the house down in a hurricane. Roll Eyes

Carl
One of the most signature-worthy quotes ever. Cheesy
Logged

Not a ham, but an avid hobbyist in HF world. All things, short of transmit happen in this shack.
W6OU
Member

Posts: 347




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2017, 04:01:11 PM »

I'm reminded of the famous line from a very old radio program called "The Shadow."  It goes like this:  "Who knows what goes on in the minds (hearts?) of men?  Only the Shadow knows!"

The actual quote is:
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows.

Logged
KM1H
Member

Posts: 5095




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2017, 05:07:31 PM »

AKA Lamont Cranston with his hottie Margo Lane. I used to listen to it on the radio in the late 40's-early 50's.

When Rock and Roll hit I was listening to that Sunday nights.

Carl
Logged
K8AXW
Member

Posts: 7036




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2017, 09:04:24 PM »

OU:  So much for an 82 year old memory.  I considered myself lucky to have found the mental filing cabinet that had that saying stashed in it.

Thanks for the correction....although it's doubtful that I will remember it the next time I want to use it.
Logged

A Pessimist is Never Disappointed!
G4AON
Member

Posts: 1381




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2017, 11:45:29 PM »

Many stations in the UK run illegal power levels, why are dealers offering 1.5KW and even higher power amps when the limit is 400W? Presumably there is a market for the OM series, including the 4KW OM4000 amplifiers offered by dealers such as https://www.hamradio.co.uk/accessories-linear-amplifiers-om-power-amplifiers/om-power/om-power-om4000hf-pd-6734.php

If the regulator revoked a few licences for not adhering to the terms and conditions, those contest “winning” stations wouldn’t do so well.

73 Dave

Logged
VK3BL
Member

Posts: 1789


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2017, 01:00:13 AM »

Many stations in the UK run illegal power levels, why are dealers offering 1.5KW and even higher power amps when the limit is 400W? Presumably there is a market for the OM series, including the 4KW OM4000 amplifiers offered by dealers such as https://www.hamradio.co.uk/accessories-linear-amplifiers-om-power-amplifiers/om-power/om-power-om4000hf-pd-6734.php

If the regulator revoked a few licences for not adhering to the terms and conditions, those contest “winning” stations wouldn’t do so well.

73 Dave

There are plenty of legitimate reasons for wanting to own a higher power amp.

Lets look at a few cases.

2Kw Tube amp: Service life is going to be exceedingly long, even as the tube(s) go soft.  Given a lot of high power tube amps now use tetrodes, running them at lower output levels is going to improve IMD performance.

1.5Kw SS amp: Solid State amps don't come close to good tube amps in terms of IMD performance.  Flat out, most of the "legal limit" solid state amps are far dirtier than even a 12 volt exciter.  That said, my "overkill" Tokyo Hy-Power HL-2.5Kfx puts out a beautifully clean signal at our legal limit; the combined system performance is -35dBc or -41dB PEP; and thats measuring from the worst case IMD Product.  I also have a THP-450B 12V solid state amp.  It will do 400 watts PEP.  You may wonder why I'd bother with its big brother... well the answer is the THP-450B is significantly dirtier!

What we have to keep in mind is that amp manufactures are pretty much willing to rate their products full power output at around -20dBc, sometimes worse.  There is a whole lot to be gained (especially in terms of signal cleanliness) by having an amp with some headroom, and I'm not referring to extra S points on the receiving end.

But by all means buy one of those RM Italy "500 Watt PEP" 300Vs and see how many friends are made...

Even if you are convinced that there are loads of Hams running 2kW+ in the UK, let me assure you that it really isn't as simple as just laying down the credit card.  At those kinds of power levels one has to pay decent amount of attention to their antenna system.

Most QRO operators have better antenna setups than QRP operators.  That may seem counter intuitive, but 10% system loss @ 5 watts is nothing, and will likely go unnoticed.  10% loss at 2kW is enough to quickly destroy whatever poor component in the antenna system isn't up to scratch.

The point I am trying to make is twofold:

1) There are very legitimate, 'good citizen' reasons for owning an 'overpower' amp.
2) 1kW+ requires diligence, understanding and a big pocket book, which limits the quantity of Hams capable of doing such things.  My personal view is that those who have demonstrated the diligence and understanding to be able to run 1kW should be able too, for the sake of perpetuating that unique skillset.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 01:11:29 AM by VK3BL » Logged

J.D. Mitchell BA  - VK3BL / XU7AGA - https://www.youtube.com/ratemyradio - Honesty & Integrity
G4AON
Member

Posts: 1381




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2017, 01:13:22 AM »

If the reason for UK contest stations buying 1.5 to 4KW amps was to ensure their “400 Watt” signal was clean, why do they not pursue low IMD transceivers to drive them? How many have a spectrum analyser and two tone source to check the cleanliness of their transmission (none, one?).

The reason has nothing to do with clean SSB transmissions, it’s purely to be a stronger signal to beat pile ups or win contests.

73 Dave
Logged
Pages: Prev 1 [2] 3 4 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!