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Author Topic: WAZ / LOTW  (Read 12092 times)
WO7R
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Posts: 3251




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« Reply #105 on: April 10, 2018, 05:53:29 AM »

At the end of the day, it is really CQ's call as to who was in what zone.

Perhaps this will be documented over time.  It's kind of virgin territory.

Officially, if we go by what was accepted in cards the rules at CQ say that it is the address that governs the zone location.

Their "general rule 6" still says, as it long did, under mandatory info for a QSO:

Quote
6. The QTH of the station worked (country, state, city). Indication of the CQ zone is optional

As long as CQ knows where the station is (and, for CQ Marathon reasons, they have tracked a fair number of known zone 2 Canadians, for instance and certainly know about Russian and even old USSR prefixes), they are in a position to make a ruling without a CQ field in the LOTW record if they wish.

It all depends on the interface between CQ and LOTW.  My guess is that the zone would be treated, in the end, as advisory and the location, when known, would take precedence.
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KB8GAE
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Posts: 300




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« Reply #106 on: April 10, 2018, 06:05:37 AM »

But his callsign prefix (UA9U...) tells us he his in Zone 18. QRZ.com knows it, the WAZ zone map knows it, I just wonder if ARRL LOTW will know it or if they expect people in those zones to contact them and let them know. I am sure I am not the first person to wonder about this. Same issue with zone 2, I imagine (and all USA zones since we are not required to send "/p" anymore).

There are many calls QRZ.com does not show the zone for.  Look up RA9HBQ for example.

Thanks to the LOTW staff for adding WAZ. 

I found with LOTW and my 1 zone 18 card that I qaulify for WAZ mixed and 5 band WAZ (151 credits).

Rich KB8GAE
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N5VYS
Member

Posts: 1371




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« Reply #107 on: April 10, 2018, 05:23:39 PM »

Interesting! I still need Zone 2 on digital!
Marvin VE3VEE

haha I need zone 2 on 20 meter CW, can I borrow one from you??
 Grin Grin Cheesy
I need zone 2 on 15M & 80M.

Obie N5VYS
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K3STX
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Posts: 1633




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« Reply #108 on: April 10, 2018, 05:49:13 PM »

Is this chart not accurate!

http://hamradio.ad1c.us/russia_a.htm

It should be a simple matter of computer programming callsigns to zones.

Paul
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AA6YQ
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Posts: 2914


WWW

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« Reply #109 on: April 10, 2018, 06:42:13 PM »

My understanding is that the CQ zone in your LoTW confirmation is what your QSO partner specifies in the "Station Location" used to submit your QSO to LoTW.

If you think your QSO partner specified the wrong CQ zone, you can convince him or her to resubmit your QSO with a "Station Location" that specifies the correct zone. Being unable to convince your QSO partner to correct his or her "Station Location" and resubmit is no different than being unable to convince your QSO partner to send you a QSL card that specifies the correct CQ zone: escalate to the CQ WAZ Award Manager (John KC5LK).
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K3STX
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Posts: 1633




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« Reply #110 on: April 10, 2018, 07:01:55 PM »

I have the QSL card, but LOTW credits are so much easier. It could not hurt for me to email him and tell him that his zone is not included on his log submissions. But I did not realize I even TOLD LOTW (or my logger) where I was located, I must have just forgotten that I did it.

paul
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NI0C
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Posts: 3019




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« Reply #111 on: April 10, 2018, 07:10:15 PM »

Paul,
The next time you log on to LoTW, find one of your QSL's and click on "Details," and it will show you not only your QSO partner's QTH details, but yours too.
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WO7R
Member

Posts: 3251




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« Reply #112 on: April 11, 2018, 12:16:32 AM »

Quote
It should be a simple matter of computer programming callsigns to zones.

Please re-read my response above.  Note specifically that any actual zone indication is not definitive or official in the end.  At least so say their rules.

It's really up to CQ how they wish to do this.  But, they didn't start administer this award yesterday.  I stand at 199 on the 5BWAZ.  The awards manager(s) over the years (there have been only two as I recall during my "tenure" at least) have always been very generous, knowledgeable, and anything but officious.

There was never any difficulty with any of my Russian zones, in particular, and some of these would have been from before The Wall Fell when all the prefixes were different (UQ for Latvia, etc).  They knew them for what they were.

They have also accepted my eQSL zones without any fuss or squawk, Russian zones included.  Did the various eQSL credits all have a zone in the submitted ADIF from my "QSO partner"?  No idea.  I just know what eQSL credited and that CQ accepted the credits.  Same as the cards.  Whatever was on the cards vis a vis the zone didn't really matter in the end because the "rule 6" I cited is as old as the hills.  CQ's checker and I agreed in what the zone was, and that was that.

Well, a new regime is a new day, but based on all precedent that I have experienced, this should by and large go very well.
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AA6YQ
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« Reply #113 on: April 11, 2018, 01:09:20 AM »

It should be a simple matter of computer programming callsigns to zones.

It's not a simple matter of programming to determine a DXCC entity from a callsign, much less a CQ zone. There are *many* callsigns that are ambiguous with respect to DXCC entity: any callsign with an E5, TM, or TO prefix, for example. These can only be disambiguated by referring to a manually maintained list of callsigns that shows where each station was located during the intervals it was QRV.

US callsigns are completely ambiguous with respect to CQ zone.

     73,

          Dave, AA6YQ (in CQ zone 3)
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K0UA
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Posts: 2807




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« Reply #114 on: April 11, 2018, 05:54:48 AM »

Can anyone tell me "why" there is a CQ zone and an ITU zone?  It would seem to me that the ITU zone would have sufficed.  Why did CQ create it's own zone system? What was the reasoning?
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K3STX
Member

Posts: 1633




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« Reply #115 on: April 11, 2018, 07:34:38 AM »

It should be a simple matter of computer programming callsigns to zones.

It's not a simple matter of programming to determine a DXCC entity from a callsign, much less a CQ zone. There are *many* callsigns that are ambiguous with respect to DXCC entity: any callsign with an E5, TM, or TO prefix, for example. These can only be disambiguated by referring to a manually maintained list of callsigns that shows where each station was located during the intervals it was QRV.

US callsigns are completely ambiguous with respect to CQ zone.

     73,

          Dave, AA6YQ (in CQ zone 3)

OK, never mind. Dumb question.

paul
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K3STX
Member

Posts: 1633




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« Reply #116 on: April 11, 2018, 07:47:25 AM »

My understanding is that the CQ zone in your LoTW confirmation is what your QSO partner specifies in the "Station Location" used to submit your QSO to LoTW.

If you think your QSO partner specified the wrong CQ zone, you can convince him or her to resubmit your QSO with a "Station Location" that specifies the correct zone. Being unable to convince your QSO partner to correct his or her "Station Location" and resubmit is no different than being unable to convince your QSO partner to send you a QSL card that specifies the correct CQ zone: escalate to the CQ WAZ Award Manager (John KC5LK).

I just heard back from UA9UX. I have LOTW QSLs confirmed on 15M that DO have his zone 18 listed (from 2014) and also LOTW QSL on 10M that does NOT have his zone 18 listed (from 2017). He is going to check in his settings and see if during a logging program "update" the station info was lost. Thanks. I bet LOTW users in ambiguous zones will be getting floods of emails if their Station Location info was not put into the log file.

paul
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NI0C
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Posts: 3019




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« Reply #117 on: April 11, 2018, 08:17:53 AM »

Can anyone tell me "why" there is a CQ zone and an ITU zone?  It would seem to me that the ITU zone would have sufficed.  Why did CQ create it's own zone system? What was the reasoning?
The WAZ award for working 40 zones dates back to R9 Magazine in 1934, according to a Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worked_All_Zones

I recall reading somewhere that the boundaries of the zones may have changed slightly when CQ began sponsoring the award, post WW2.  Although the ITU has a very long history, I'm not sure when it developed its zone map, but it was probably post WW2-- much later than the CQ zones.   
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AA6YQ
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« Reply #118 on: April 11, 2018, 10:50:35 AM »

Can anyone tell me "why" there is a CQ zone and an ITU zone?  It would seem to me that the ITU zone would have sufficed.  Why did CQ create it's own zone system? What was the reasoning?
 
Because someone always thinks they can do it better, and standardization across organizations is difficult to achieve. CQ zones and ITU zones, ADIF and Cabrillo, positive keying and negative keying, miles and kilometers ... and cubits. The problem is as old as mankind.

On the other hand, it's the innate convention-flouting creativity of our species that drew us out of the African savanna.
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#1 DXCC Honor Roll, DXCC Challenge 3000
VA3VF
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Posts: 1957




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« Reply #119 on: April 11, 2018, 05:06:53 PM »

Because someone always thinks they can do it better, and standardization across organizations is difficult to achieve.

a.k.a. NIH Syndrome.

NIH= Not Invented Here
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