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Author Topic: Best used High Performance HF Transceiver  (Read 20815 times)
N8FVJ
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Posts: 883




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« on: January 19, 2018, 06:30:45 AM »

Your recommendation of best used high performance HF transceiver $900 or less. I believe the TS-590SG that been showing up on QST for $900 is the best bargain out there. Your thoughts?
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KS2G
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2018, 07:07:57 AM »

If you look at the Sherwood list, you'll see that almost all of the rigs rated higher than the '590SG are also higher-priced.

IMHO, the '590SG is the best-bang-for-the-buck, new or used.

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W8JX
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2018, 07:25:55 AM »

If you look at the Sherwood list, you'll see that almost all of the rigs rated higher than the '590SG are also higher-priced.

IMHO, the '590SG is the best-bang-for-the-buck, new or used.

Just remember that the "sherwood list" that many suggest as the gospel on rig choice is made in controlled lab conditions and not in real world and nor does it begin to rate or quantify how it sounds, easy of use or ergonomics...
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
KC0W
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Posts: 733




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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2018, 07:35:13 AM »

 Kenwood 850, Yaesu 990, Kenwood 870, Ten-Tec Omni VI+. You might be able to find a clean 1000D for $900 or less. The Icom 775 still commands an unreasonably high price and is not that great of radio.  I've personally owned all the above mentioned radios except for the Ten-Tec Omni VI+. Yes, parts can potentially be a challenge if something breaks. Not having to fiddle around with menus is a nice feature for these radios.

                                                                           Tom KC0W          
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N8FVJ
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2018, 07:40:58 AM »


[/quote]

Just remember that the "sherwood list" that many suggest as the gospel on rig choice is made in controlled lab conditions and not in real world and nor does it begin to rate or quantify how it sounds, easy of use or ergonomics...
[/quote]

I agree with your statement- one has to hear the radio performance, numbers are not everything. However, the TS-590SG is a brilliant design. The DNR is great in the TS-590SG. I bought a Yaesu FT-991A for VHF/UHF long haul SSB use. It replaced my FT-847. The FT-991A DNR is interesting removing almost all noise. But, it is too strong even on lowest sitting number 1. It will not resolve weak signals like the TS-590SG DNR even if it has a little more background noise.
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W8JX
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2018, 07:48:13 AM »

I agree with your statement- one has to hear the radio performance, numbers are not everything. However, the TS-590SG is a brilliant design. The DNR is great in the TS-590SG. I bought a Yaesu FT-991A for VHF/UHF long haul SSB use. It replaced my FT-847. The FT-991A DNR is interesting removing almost all noise. But, it is too strong even on lowest sitting number 1. It will not resolve weak signals like the TS-590SG DNR even if it has a little more background noise.

Side by side I have found that the 7300 does much better with weak signals in noise than a 590SG side by side. (I need to try it with a 991A sometime) In still maturing IF DSP world the 590 is a 9 year old design that has only seen minor tweaks in SG version. The 7300 is a lot newer in design. BTW I am a Kenwood guy but for money I feel there are better rigs than a 590 these days.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
W5TD
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Posts: 635




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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2018, 08:31:43 AM »

Kind of depends on what you want to do.  HF only, the Kenwood TS950S and Kenwood TS850SAT are great radios.  The 950 does dual receive and is 150 watts out.  The Yaesu FT1000 is a good radio in this price range also and does dual receive and 200 watts out. 

If you want to do HF and 6m, Icom 756PRO2 has a lot of features.  The Kenwood TS590SG shows pretty good performance.  The Kenwood TS480HX will give you 200 watts out on HF and 100 on 6m.  You can probably find a used Icom 7300 at the top of this price range.  The 590SG (But not the 590S), and the Icom 7300 will let you hook a second radio or receiver to it so you can do true dual receive.

If you want an HF/6m/2m/70cm all mode radio, the Kenwood TS2000 does those nicely, and adds full duplex for satellite operation.  The Icom 7100 is a currently produced radio, and is loaded with features and it can send and decode RTTY without a computer.  The Icom 7000 isn't that good of a radio, I would go with a 7100 or TS2000 instead.
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N8FVJ
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2018, 08:58:45 AM »

Lowest price IC-7300 is $989 per ebay. Most sell over $1K. But, in time it will be a $900 radio.
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W8JX
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Posts: 13268




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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2018, 09:15:53 AM »

If you want an HF/6m/2m/70cm all mode radio, the Kenwood TS2000 does those nicely

Nicely is not the word here, more like marginally as it lacks a lot in HF receiver performance because of it primitive IF DSP design by todays standards. (how many are still using/buying Pentium P4 computers which are about same age as TS2000 design)
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
HB9PJT
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Posts: 414


WWW

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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2018, 12:22:05 PM »

Yous should review the schematics of the TS-2000. Then you will understand why they still do so good. They have two DSPs, each 100 MIPS while a Icom 756Pro3 has one DSP with 40 MIPS. And the TS-2000 do use crystal and ceramic filters of different bandwidth which will switch in in the background and do slope tune. They support the DSP. The TS-2000 is a masterpiece in many aspects.

73, Peter - HB9PJT

Nicely is not the word here, more like marginally as it lacks a lot in HF receiver performance because of it primitive IF DSP design by todays standards. (how many are still using/buying Pentium P4 computers which are about same age as TS2000 design)
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W8JX
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Posts: 13268




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« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2018, 01:46:32 PM »

Yous should review the schematics of the TS-2000. Then you will understand why they still do so good. They have two DSPs, each 100 MIPS while a Icom 756Pro3 has one DSP with 40 MIPS. And the TS-2000 do use crystal and ceramic filters of different bandwidth which will switch in in the background and do slope tune. They support the DSP. The TS-2000 is a masterpiece in many aspects.

73, Peter - HB9PJT

Oh I have read the schematic but even more importantly I have played with/used one several times and it lacks HF receiver performance big time compared to modern DSP rigs and even some analog rigs. Now if they would redo/reboot it as a updated say TS 2100 then it could rate some serious consideration.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
N4UE
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Posts: 904




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« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2018, 05:09:20 PM »

Your recommendation of best used high performance HF transceiver $900 or less. I believe the TS-590SG that been showing up on QST for $900 is the best bargain out there. Your thoughts?

Hmmmm.
I've been following your 'postings' ever since you said your 7300 had a "noisy" receiver. Then you bought a 590SG.
Now you are considering both again?

BTW, are you not the chap who said you had "bad ears"?

Something is fishy here....

ron
N4UE

PS You will NOT win trying to argue with KM1H. He's in a different league than you.
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If you're not the lead sled dog, the view never changes......
W5TD
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Posts: 635




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« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2018, 06:03:42 PM »

The TS2000 I have seemed to do better on receive than the Yaesu FT891 was has brand new DSP.  I will admit that I don't understand very much about DSP design.  How would newer, more powerful DSP manifest itself over the TS2000 in operating?  Would the noise reduction be better?  Would the filters have a better shape factor?  Trying to learn as I go along here.  I have had an Icom 7000 and that was rather disappointing.  The 2000 outperformed it.
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W8JX
Member

Posts: 13268




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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2018, 06:54:08 PM »

The TS2000 I have seemed to do better on receive than the Yaesu FT891 was has brand new DSP.  I will admit that I don't understand very much about DSP design.  How would newer, more powerful DSP manifest itself over the TS2000 in operating?  Would the noise reduction be better?  Would the filters have a better shape factor?  Trying to learn as I go along here.  I have had an Icom 7000 and that was rather disappointing.  The 2000 outperformed it.

Modern DSP in same price class has better selectivity and steeper skirts on band-pass too and better image rejection as well. But you get what you pay for too and 7000 did not have very good DSP. 
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
ZENKI
Member

Posts: 1636




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« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2018, 02:28:40 PM »

What are you supposed to be "hearing" that receiver performance numbers cant measure?

  This is spurious nonsense spread by hams who dont want to accept the fact that radio engineering is science and every aspect  of this science can be measured.  Over the years I have listened to this so called "on the air" or "ham urban myths" about this radio having mystical performance in one or 2 areas of performance. In all cases when these radio were put under test they were horrible and miserable performing radios.

The only aspect of performance that cant exactly be measured is the performance of the  noise blanker or noise reduction whose performance  varies  because of the huge variability  in noise sources. But even noise blankers  and noise reduction performance can be quantified if someone took the time.

I will leave the "golden ear" testing to the CB'ers  who dont measure one  performance aspect of their radios and change them like stocks just because another cb'er tells them subjectively that its a better radio. This is not where we want ham radio as hobby to go when we practice ignorance, voodoo and radio folklore.

Well if you can "quantify" or tell me what a decent lab cant measure that your ears can I would be willing to give your  golden ear theory a try  and compare some radios.





Just remember that the "sherwood list" that many suggest as the gospel on rig choice is made in controlled lab conditions and not in real world and nor does it begin to rate or quantify how it sounds, easy of use or ergonomics...
[/quote]

I agree with your statement- one has to hear the radio performance, numbers are not everything. However, the TS-590SG is a brilliant design. The DNR is great in the TS-590SG. I bought a Yaesu FT-991A for VHF/UHF long haul SSB use. It replaced my FT-847. The FT-991A DNR is interesting removing almost all noise. But, it is too strong even on lowest sitting number 1. It will not resolve weak signals like the TS-590SG DNR even if it has a little more background noise.
[/quote]
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