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Author Topic: Best used High Performance HF Transceiver  (Read 21189 times)
KX2T
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Posts: 1101




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« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2018, 06:51:26 PM »

The 7300's DSP chip is of a newer design than even the one in the FTDX3000 and by comparison it makes the 590's DSP chip look like something out of an 870. I owned a 590 for  year, nice radio but the NB and NR were from 15 years ago no matter how it was adjusted. Then came the FTDX3000 which at least the NBW worked better than the standard NB  plus if you only use a very small amount on the NR it didn't sound like an echo chamber but in the 3K above 20m you should use the 1st Pre Amp cause directly into the mixer it has lower gain then the rest. Along comes the 7300 and properly adjusted NB works like one should, the NR with only a 2 or 3 setting is fantastic, without pre amp is the way to run this radio, it simply does not need it, well maybe on 6 meters but w/o pre amp this is one hot radio so my call would be look for a used 7300 it may be small but packs a punch and the RX is better than most give it credit for. One slick control is the RF gain, it doesn't work like your dad's radio, more like an adjustable attenuation, real slick and it works great plus you can adjust it to exactly what you need per the band and conditions.
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K6AER
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Posts: 5743




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« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2018, 08:35:43 PM »

A lot of 7600 are coming on the used market for $1200-$1400. Excellent radio.
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N8FVJ
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Posts: 900




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« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2018, 06:46:29 AM »

The 7300's DSP chip is of a newer design than even the one in the FTDX3000 and by comparison it makes the 590's DSP chip look like something out of an 870. I owned a 590 for  year, nice radio but the NB and NR were from 15 years ago no matter how it was adjusted. Then came the FTDX3000 which at least the NBW worked better than the standard NB  plus if you only use a very small amount on the NR it didn't sound like an echo chamber but in the 3K above 20m you should use the 1st Pre Amp cause directly into the mixer it has lower gain then the rest. Along comes the 7300 and properly adjusted NB works like one should, the NR with only a 2 or 3 setting is fantastic, without pre amp is the way to run this radio, it simply does not need it, well maybe on 6 meters but w/o pre amp this is one hot radio so my call would be look for a used 7300 it may be small but packs a punch and the RX is better than most give it credit for. One slick control is the RF gain, it doesn't work like your dad's radio, more like an adjustable attenuation, real slick and it works great plus you can adjust it to exactly what you need per the band and conditions.

The IC-7300 has the best NR I ever used. It reduces noise without any artifacts like that watery sound Kenwood produces at higher settings. However, I used the noise reduction on a Yaesu FT-991A. It is too strong even on the lowest setting. The TS-590SG outperforms the new FT-991A NR on weak signals. If the FTdx-3000 uses the same NR, I would not buy that radio. NR makes a large difference on the noisy bands.

Perhaps Kenwood will be bringing the rumored TS-890 to market soon.
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K7JQ
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Posts: 1304




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« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2018, 07:25:31 AM »

A lot of 7600 are coming on the used market for $1200-$1400. Excellent radio.

Agreed. Haven't seen any at $1,200 yet, but since the 7610 has been available, folks are virtually "giving away" their 7600's at around $1,500 shipped. This was originally a $4,000 radio that was sold by vendors at $2,000 when a few new leftover discontinued units were still in stock last year. They're all gone now. They're a great full-sized RELIABLE radio...an excellent fully featured performer. I've had mine for seven years with absolutely no issues, even through many contests. I bought a 7300, but gonna still hold on to my 7600...no desire for a 7610.

IMO, a clean used 7600 *should* be selling for closer to $2,000 at this point, so if you can find one at that $1.2-$1.5K price, you can't go wrong.

73, Bob K7JQ
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K6BRN
Member

Posts: leet




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« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2018, 10:05:37 PM »

ZENKI:

Quote
What are you supposed to be "hearing" that receiver performance numbers cant measure?

......

Well if you can "quantify" or tell me what a decent lab cant measure that your ears can I would be willing to give your  golden ear theory a try  and compare some radios.

I ACCEPT YOUR CHALLENGE.  PLEASE ARRANGE TO DROP BY SO THAT WE CAN AUDITION A FEW RADIOS.

Of course we need to do this side by side, in particular to do a few tests on our own "Mark 1" Ear to see what the differences are.  Then we can sit down and pull out a few radios and see which we each prefer and why.  And you can explain and show what parameters that pleasing sound represents.

Regarding a pleasing sound - THAT is largely unrelated to pure receiver performance and more personal hearing/taste.  I've used radios whose performance has been measured to be excellent by their contemporary standards - and I CAN'T STAND LISTENING TO THEM.  Every ham who has been around a while has had this experience.

To me, the listening experience is much more important and pure RX performance, because most radios have BAGs of that!  But easy listening...  many don't.

Currently I really like the Yaesu FTDX-3000, -1200, -991, etc.  And that is a PERSONAL taste.  It's not arguable.

So, why not come on out from under your rock and let's see what you really look like.  Maybe we'll even have a great time and tell tall tales of great radios of the past and those yet to come.

I challenge YOU to drop the mask, halt your conspiracy against... well... everything, and JOIN THE COMMUNITY.

Try it.  You might like it.

Brian - K6BRN
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KT0DD
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Posts: 457




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« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2018, 10:02:34 AM »

One thing not being mentioned here is the ability to tailor sound with the DSP to one's liking. At first, I was concerned about buying a IC-7300 because with everything set to default settings, I found it a bit bright and harsh sounding. After I learned to tailor the audio settings to my liking, I love this radio and will keep it. I almost bought a TS590SG, but the clean clear NR of the Icom finally sold me.

I believe most of today's rigs with the stellar Sherwood numbers can be tailored to an acceptable sound with a little experimentation.

73. Todd - KT0DD
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K6BRN
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Posts: leet




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« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2018, 10:15:36 AM »

Todd:

I agree with your assessment that DSP can really help audio quality.  A lot.  While I find the recent Yaesu's to have very good, mellow RX "sound", even with the DSP OFF, I'm not sure it is ever really OFF.

One of my old favorite radios, the Kenwood TS-440SAT (still have a complete station - can't let it go) is a joy to use and a Bear to listen to for long periods due to its very harsh audio.  So when I do use it now, I attach a West Mountain Radio clrDSP unit to it (the later version with volume, level AND tone controls) and it works wonders.  I can now listen and operate with the 440 for hours without ear fatigue.

I've found the clrDSP works wonders even attached to more recent radios WITH noise reduction built in.  I also use one with my Icom R75 receiver, and it makes a MAJOR difference.

Brian - K6BRN
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VK2NZA
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Posts: 293




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« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2018, 11:42:25 PM »

I would put in a big vote for the Icom IC-7410, as K7JQ mentions the IC-7600 being an excellent purchase, they IC-7410 is basically a 7600 without the screen and a couple of small extras, the 7410 is a superb radio to use ergonomically with a control at hand for majority of regular user functions, an excellent receiver and superb filtering, very good NR and 100% duty cycle with its massive alloy heat sink chassis, add the 6 khz and 3 khz filters for e'bay price for the pair (around $100 US) and it will compare very favourably with most sub $3500 offerings.
A considerable number have been sold worldwide and have proved very reliable , the ALC overshoot problem (as with the TS 590SG) in early ones has been corrected with a firmware adjustment and can be retro fixed.
With an Icom warranty here in Australia of 5 years these are an excellent value purchase.
This is like the 7600 a full sized rig with a dedicated RF output control! and easily accessed sub menu's for lesser used functions. An easily viewed screen and an audio that is pleasent and non  grating.
It was selling out after the IC-7300 hit the market at as low as 1K-$1100.
There aren't too many coming up for sale used, as they are a keeper for the price and specs,
a quick look at the E'Ham reviews will tell you that virtually all users are extremely pleased with it giving a 4.9 rating!
I like the 7410 so much I bought a second - true diversity reception for a new price $1500 less than a new IC-7600.
my shack also contains an IC-7200, Kenwood TS-480 Sat Yaesu FT-1000D and Icom IC-765.
just my take!

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W8JX
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Posts: 13268




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« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2018, 04:55:45 AM »

IC-7410 was and still is a good radio.
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--------------------------------------
Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
KC1BMD
Member

Posts: 959




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« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2018, 05:26:44 PM »

OP: Is your question answered? Smiley Of course, there is no way to adequately answer the question without first defining what is "best" for you.
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KX2T
Member

Posts: 1101




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« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2018, 07:15:15 AM »

I have seen allot of good used radio's around the $900 or under price range, the early TS590S for under $800, the Icom IC7410 under $800 and maybe if you look hard enough the TS590SG but if you find a used IC7300 for even around the $900 price range Buy IT, its reciever performance is a cut above those other radio's and bests the IC7600's RX section, yes it has no dual watch but even on modes like CW the filtering combined with a good stiff front end was never available till now for this kind of investment. BTW the transmitter is also excellent as well with a clean SSB signal, Icom not only got the RX section down but the TX section as well.
So to coin you phrase BEST my money is on the IC7300 used, after owning and using a few current very good radio's like the TS590,K3,FTDX3000 I now use and own a IC7300. I will add another radio more than likely another SDR like a Flex 6300 or maybe a 6400 but these sdr radio's are IMO performing way above any of the superhet designs.
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N8FVJ
Member

Posts: 900




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« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2019, 06:38:00 AM »

W8JX- I been round & round with you on this IC-7300 receiver performance. The IC-7300 is a noisy receiver in S7 and higher band noise environments. Also useless during field day- overloads like crazy. Many at QRZ are selling or sold the IC-7300 due to the noise issue. The TS-590SG is far superior and everyone knows it at QRZ.
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N4UE
Member

Posts: 927




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« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2019, 02:37:39 PM »

FVJ, I also notice you going back and forth concerning the 7300 'noise' issue.
You NEVER answered me before.... DID YOU ACTUALLY EVER OWN ONE?

Use the preamp much on the low bands from your apartment? Do you know what "OVF" means?
Do you know how to adjust the RF Gain / waterfall on an SDR?

There is a REASON why Carl, KM1H debates everything you post...…

ron
N4UE
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If you're not the lead sled dog, the view never changes......
N8FVJ
Member

Posts: 900




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« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2019, 03:26:39 PM »

FVJ, I also notice you going back and forth concerning the 7300 'noise' issue.
You NEVER answered me before.... DID YOU ACTUALLY EVER OWN ONE?

Use the preamp much on the low bands from your apartment? Do you know what "OVF" means?
Do you know how to adjust the RF Gain / waterfall on an SDR?

There is a REASON why Carl, KM1H debates everything you post...…

ron
N4UE

Of course I owned the IC-7300 or I would have no business posting anything. Adjust RF Gain, are you kidding me? Carl just lost another argument with me on the Russian G-811 tube at QRZ. Carl is not always right and has no class!
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K7JQ
Member

Posts: 1304




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« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2019, 04:10:03 PM »

W8JX- I been round & round with you on this IC-7300 receiver performance. The IC-7300 is a noisy receiver in S7 and higher band noise environments. Also useless during field day- overloads like crazy. Many at QRZ are selling or sold the IC-7300 due to the noise issue. The TS-590SG is far superior and everyone knows it at QRZ.

FVJ:
On Reply #17, Jan. 24,2018, of this thread, you said (and I quote)... "The IC-7300 has the best NR I ever used".

"Band noise"...are you referring to atmospheric or man-madel? My antenna is almost 350 feet away from my house or any others...quiet as a church mouse on any radio I have used, including the 7300 (which BTW has never overloaded with a few high power contesters nearby). Maybe during Field Day...just don't use one there. The TS-590SG is a great radio...but FAR SUPERIOR? Where do you come up with that..."EVERYONE" at QRZ? People are also selling their TS-590SG's. Some to trade for a 7300, so don't go that route.

I'll bet you own a TS-590SG Grin. If so, are you happy with your irrational rationalization against the 7300? Enjoy it, and leave the 7300 owners alone to enjoy theirs. IMO, your statements are baseless.

73, Bob K7JQ
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