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Author Topic: Stealth / semi permanent dipole  (Read 20403 times)
2E0ZWH
Member

Posts: 30




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« on: January 23, 2018, 02:00:27 PM »

Hi all,

Although I have read many posts, this is my first thread having just joined the forum...

I have recently moved house and I would like to put up an HF wire antenna. It needs to be low impact / stealth and I can really only 'get away' with one.

My main aim is to get a strong signal out for DX & 'local' contacts, so I can work what I hear.

So my questions are
(1) is a resonant dipole likely to outperform a multibander like a GR5V / doublet by any significant margin?
(2) If you could only pick one band, which would it be?

I reckon I could get away with a 40m 1/2 wave dipole and suspend it at the rear of my house between two supports... 23' at the low end and 30' at the high end. So almost flat but not quite. But if a multibander would perform equally as well across a few bands, clearly that would be the winner...

Thoughts?

p.s. I have just bought a 100m drum of #14 copper wire... so I'm going to start building   Grin
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AC2RY
Member

Posts: 729




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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2018, 04:30:46 PM »

Hi all,

Although I have read many posts, this is my first thread having just joined the forum...

I have recently moved house and I would like to put up an HF wire antenna. It needs to be low impact / stealth and I can really only 'get away' with one.

My main aim is to get a strong signal out for DX & 'local' contacts, so I can work what I hear.

So my questions are
(1) is a resonant dipole likely to outperform a multibander like a GR5V / doublet by any significant margin?
(2) If you could only pick one band, which would it be?

I reckon I could get away with a 40m 1/2 wave dipole and suspend it at the rear of my house between two supports... 23' at the low end and 30' at the high end. So almost flat but not quite. But if a multibander would perform equally as well across a few bands, clearly that would be the winner...

Thoughts?

p.s. I have just bought a 100m drum of #14 copper wire... so I'm going to start building   Grin

From my practical experience in a similar situation:  I use ZS6BKW sized doublet at 45 feet above ground. Near the ground window line is connected to external tuner through 1:1 current balun. Then there is 150 feet of underground coax to my house. This setup works reasonably well for DX on all 10-80 meter bands, and for local QSO on 160 meters. The keys to success of this setup are high quality current balun, use of outdoor tuner and relatively long distance from the house structure.

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ONAIR
Member

Posts: 3730




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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2018, 05:12:05 PM »

Ever consider an end fed half wave?
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W6QW
Member

Posts: 84




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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2018, 06:01:30 PM »

I have been using a 40M phased magnetic loop at my antenna-restricted QTH for the past 8 years.  Top wires are about 15 feet above the ground; bottom wires are 3 feet above ground.  So far, I have 246 countries on 40M during this period.  Take a look at my QRZ page for an overview of the loop.  Email me if you want more information.

Don / W6QW
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KE4OH
Member

Posts: 228




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« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2018, 07:23:46 AM »

1) Yes. Or no. Or maybe. Or it depends. But, consider that a resonant coax-fed dipole can be made multi-band by simply adding more wires for additional bands. Too many wires/bands, though, and you start losing the stealth effect. I use my stealthy resonant dipole to work tons of people who have GR5V antennas. Not sure what that proves other than both types of antennas are very serviceable.

2) 40m.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 07:26:25 AM by KE4OH » Logged

73 de Steve KE4OH
KF4ZGZ
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Posts: 136


WWW

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« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2018, 03:40:56 AM »

I think it was L.B. Cebik, W4RNL, the antenna guru who wrote an article entitled " If I could have just one antenna". ( Or something like that )
His suggestion was an 88ft. twinlead fed dipole.
Small, only 23 ft. more than a 40m dipole and was a great compromise to a full size 80m dipole.
Of course it took a decent tuner.
I used one with TV twinlead for a while at my QTH, no complaints ...... and it rocked in use as a portable.


Matt
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Matt
2E0ZWH
Member

Posts: 30




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« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2018, 10:10:11 AM »

Thanks for all your replies.

I ought to add that I don’t have a tuner at the moment... although I want to get one.

So I think I will start simple with the coax fed 40m dipole (as I have all the bits lying around to do that) and then later do some experimenting...

Now to build a 1:1 balun...

73

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N7EKU
Member

Posts: 1038




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« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2018, 03:24:27 PM »

Hi,

If you are going to do a 40M dipole, your might want to do one with stubs so it will work well (without a tuner) on 15M as well.

For the 1:1 balun, you can do a coiled coax one fairly easily and cheaply as shown here.

73,


Mark.
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Mark -- N7EKU/VE3
KD8NGE
Member

Posts: 41




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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2018, 01:53:34 AM »

Several good suggestions here already.
While I still had trees, I used magnet wire for a sloping random wire at first, then I went for broke and strung out a full 40 meter loop that described a rough triangle but also ran up a handy mostly-dead tree 35 ft high.  My theory was to get vertical as well as horizontal propagation.  My setup worked either because of, or in spite of, its design; unfortunately, both trees were dying when I started, and have long since been turned into stovewood, and all I have left is an attic antenna and a T-shirt that says "The older I get, the better I was!"
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KM4DYX
Member

Posts: 78




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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2018, 12:58:08 PM »

Make it a linked dipole and rig it to easily lower/raise and it'll be as stealthy and as simple as can be. (That's what I did.)

73,
Al
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N3JJB
Member

Posts: 48




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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2018, 08:07:25 AM »

+1 on the zs6bkw. I've been using it as an inverted V for several years.
https://www.google.com/search?q=zs6bkw&oq=zs6bkw&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.3655j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Terry

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2E0ZWH
Member

Posts: 30




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« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2018, 02:18:50 PM »

Great, thanks for the ideas.

I replaced the 40m dipole with a 100' random wire fed against some buried radials. This actually appeared to produce stronger signals compared to the dipole (based on very unscientific singal strength on WebSDR stations as a reference...)  Cheesy


The random wire also seems more stealthy as there's no feedline hanging down.

I might try an inverted L next.
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K6UJ
Member

Posts: 1358




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« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2018, 06:05:25 PM »

Great suggestions for dipole configurations.  You said you want to also have it good for DX.  Unless a dipole is up high enough to give low angle radiation, about 50 feet or higher depending on bands,  it will be great for close in contacts but for DX I would suggest that you also consider a vertical antenna which will give nice low angle radiation for working DX.   (Install both the stealth dipole and a stealth vertical.) There are many ways to skin the cat for a vertical, shortened with spiral wire wrapped around a plastic pipe, or wire inside a plastic pipe with a loading coil at the bottom.  I had one like this and used it for a flagpole, :-) the neighbors loved it.  Just some food for thought.......... 

Bob
K6UJ
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