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Author Topic: TL-922A Relay RL-1  (Read 5579 times)
W1QJ
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« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2018, 07:05:40 AM »

Bryan, according to MFJ these relays are suitable for QSK.  I think they are still available by the company who took over Kilovac possibly under a different part number.  I haven't contacted MFJ to see if those relays are available thru them or they did not delete them from the catalog if they are no longer available.  Ameritron is now (at least on the big amps) are coming through with a "board" with two separate relays on them apparently rated for semi bk in at least.  Some of the cheaper models may also have these boards now.  I think the newer 811 amps may even have them. 
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WA7PRC
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« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2018, 07:21:11 AM »

Bryan, according to MFJ these relays are suitable for QSK. I think they are still available by the company who took over Kilovac possibly under a different part number.
A datasheet would be nice. I looked, a lot. TE Connectivity (used to be Tyco), who bought Kilovac, doesn't show any data for their replacement (pn 1-1618259-6). Before I use a part, I want to know the important data ("trust me" doesn't cut it). This comment looks interesting: http://lists.contesting.com/_towertalk/2017-04/msg00108.html

I haven't contacted MFJ to see if those relays are available thru them or they did not delete them from the catalog if they are no longer available.  Ameritron is now (at least on the big amps) are coming through with a "board" with two separate relays on them apparently rated for semi bk in at least.  Some of the cheaper models may also have these boards now.  I think the newer 811 amps may even have them. 
That's all good & well for Ameritron but, we're talking retrofitting a legacy 'amplefire'.
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AA2UK
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« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2018, 07:43:19 AM »

S05FJA238=RELAY, VACUUM, REED

 OBSOLETE
TE Part # 1-1618259-6
TE Internal #: 1-1618259-6
Alias #:S05FJA238
Bill AA2UK
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 07:47:32 AM by AA2UK » Logged
WA7PRC
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« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2018, 07:55:21 AM »

S05FJA238=RELAY, VACUUM, REED

 OBSOLETE
TE Part # 1-1618259-6
TE Internal #: 1-1618259-6
Alias #:S05FJA238
Bill AA2UK
That's what I got, by searching the information from the MFJ catalog and the link I found (http://lists.contesting.com/_towertalk/2017-04/msg00108.html). Note that Jim Lux, in the page I found, suggested that MFJ may have purchased an end-of-life (EOL) batch from then Kilovac, and the only way to buy any would be through MFJ. Heathkit did that, too.

And we still don't know important data about that relay...
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AA2UK
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« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2018, 08:47:30 AM »

I agree the specifications are important. I'm not even sure if MFJ is selling this part?
Bill, AA2UK
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W1QJ
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« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2018, 09:12:38 AM »

There are some specs at the MFJ page as far as the contact current but no data on timing.  I'm sure a few minutes with a scope and that can be determined.  We can hash this out until the cows come home.  The only thing to do is make a phone call to MFJ and see if this relay is still available and what the supply is on them if they are.  They do say that they are good for QSK.   I have no reason to doubt that.

Bryan, you often refer to "hot switching" and it is a big concern of yours.  When you use the term are you mainly referring to hot switching the amplifier or the radio?  three things are happening every time you transmit through an amplifier.
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WA7PRC
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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2018, 09:31:35 AM »

There are some specs at the MFJ page as far as the contact current but no data on timing.  I'm sure a few minutes with a scope and that can be determined.  We can hash this out until the cows come home.  The only thing to do is make a phone call to MFJ and see if this relay is still available and what the supply is on them if they are.  They do say that they are good for QSK.   I have no reason to doubt that.
An engineer never designs a part into a circuit w/o seeing a datasheet and/or testing the part. And, buyers for OEMs are nervous about ordering a single-source part. Having a unique part cost skyrocket isn't nearly as bad as the part becoming unobtanium. Been there, don't want to be there again.

Bryan, you often refer to "hot switching" and it is a big concern of yours.  When you use the term are you mainly referring to hot switching the amplifier or the radio?  three things are happening every time you transmit through an amplifier.
Many times, I and many others have referred to "hot switching" as the rig producing RF before the amplifier input relay N.O. contacts have closed (and stopped bouncing). Typically, the rig sees an open circuit, and its VSWR protection kicks in, momentarily reducing RFOUT. SOME (but not all) newer rigs can be optioned to delay RF a few milliseconds. With open-frame relays, you still have "dry" N.C. contacts that tend to oxidize (and intermit).
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W1BR
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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2018, 10:01:08 AM »

There are some specs at the MFJ page as far as the contact current but no data on timing.  I'm sure a few minutes with a scope and that can be determined.  We can hash this out until the cows come home.  The only thing to do is make a phone call to MFJ and see if this relay is still available and what the supply is on them if they are.  They do say that they are good for QSK.   I have no reason to doubt that.

Bryan, you often refer to "hot switching" and it is a big concern of yours.  When you use the term are you mainly referring to hot switching the amplifier or the radio?  three things are happening every time you transmit through an amplifier.

Lou

All of my Ten Tec rigs are modified to key my amp from the "T line"   driving a FET.  That delay provides ample time for the vacuum and reed relays to switch in my SB-220.  Verified the timing with my Tek scope just to make sure there was no RF drive until the relays had ample settling time. 

Pete
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WA7PRC
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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2018, 10:06:43 AM »

Quote
All of my Ten Tec rigs are modified to key my amp ...
One nice thing about using the W7RY (et al) vacuum relay setup is, ZERO modification is needed of any rig connected to it. He's already verified that, using the relays he recommends the (worst case) delay is still much faster than any rig can supply RF.
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W1QJ
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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2018, 11:18:44 AM »

I called MFJ and they have 54 pieces of the relays in question one hand now.  Naturally the girl did not know the state of any reorder. 
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WA7PRC
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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2018, 11:22:15 AM »

I called MFJ and they have 54 pieces of the relays in question one hand now.  Naturally the girl did not know the state of any reorder. 
How about a datasheet?
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W1QJ
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« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2018, 11:50:51 AM »

Here you go:  One of these should work.  Price?Huh

https://www.relayspec.com/catalogs/006720/0582/18-19.pdf
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WA7PRC
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« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2018, 11:58:35 AM »

Here you go:  One of these should work.  Price?Huh

https://www.relayspec.com/catalogs/006720/0582/18-19.pdf
My antivirus software doesn't like it. It sez:
   Dangerous Web Page Blocked
   You attempted to access:
   https://www.relayspec.com/catalogs/006720/0582/18-19.pdf
   This is a known dangerous web page.
   It is highly recommended that you do NOT visit this page.
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N1UK
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« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2018, 12:14:55 PM »

https://www.relayspec.com/catalogs/006720/0582/18-19.pdf


Malwarebytes and ZoneAlarm opened it up fine.  It is a pdf data sheet.


73 Mark N1UK
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WA7PRC
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« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2018, 12:34:08 PM »

https://www.relayspec.com/catalogs/006720/0582/18-19.pdf


Malwarebytes and ZoneAlarm opened it up fine.  It is a pdf data sheet.

73 Mark N1UK
Thanks, Mark. I saved the link locally (without opening it first), and scanned it. Smiley

The "open frame reed relays" are only single throw ("Form A/B Contact Configuration"). To switch an amplifier in/out you need double throw (DPDT or 2x SPDT). You'd need to use two Form A (SPST, N.O.) and two Form B (SPST, N.C.). And that doesn't handle the bias control. The W7RY setup drives two SPDT relays, and toggles the bias electronically.
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