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Author Topic: 4B4B - REVILLAGIGEDO  (Read 13351 times)
N5INP
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Posts: 1964




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« Reply #60 on: April 14, 2018, 06:37:21 PM »

Hmmm ... I checked Club Log and I'm in his log. But, when I went to get the OQRS it didn't accept my date and/or time as matching. I can't imagine why that would be, since I use a computer log. I sent him an email ...  Huh
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N5INP
Member

Posts: 1964




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« Reply #61 on: April 16, 2018, 09:40:35 AM »

I now know of another ham who is having the same issue with the 4B4B log that has been uploaded to Club Log - they are in the log but the date and/or time is not verifying so no OQRS can be completed.

I believe the 4B4B log has some errors in it. I do not know why that is, but my log is computerized and I have never had a known date or time error (as is common these data are filled in by the computer). I have emailed both addresses on the 4B4B QRZ page -

4b4bdxpedition@gmail.com

xe1b@qsl.net

I have not yet received a response.
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N5INP
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Posts: 1964




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« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2018, 03:28:54 PM »

I communicated with the help desk @ Club Log to see if they could tell if the log was corrupted or give a hint as to what the problem was. They looked at the DX's log and gave a suggestion that the DX station was not using proper UTC. This was good enough for me to try some times differing by more than a few hours from UTC. Lo and behold after a few tries changing the hour, I found out that subtracting 4 hours from the actual UTC time of the logged contact gave me the confirmation and I was able to get the card ordered. They must have had an issue with their computer that day.

Hope this helps any others (I know of at least one other that has communicated this issue to me).

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WD9EWK
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Posts: 633


WWW

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« Reply #63 on: May 17, 2018, 10:51:18 AM »

Hi!

This may be a little late, but worth adding some information on the Mexican licensing mess...

The real issue here (and it predates the current administration BTW, so leave that out please) is that the government of Mexico, in its wisdom, basically doesn't give out licenses to US hams.

Before the creation of the IFT (Federal Telecommunications Institute - Mexico's "FCC") in 2013, XE permits were available to US hams. I obtained several of them, between 2000 and 2010. US hams were covered by an agreement between the FCC and Mexico's communications and transport ministry, or "SCT", signed in (IIRC) 1991. This agreement was honored through the period when radio licensing was handled by the Federal Telecommunications Commision, or "CoFeTel" - which was a part of the SCT - from the mid-1990s until the creation of IFT. I did not need to work with a local Mexican ham to get my permits under this agreement; I could file the paperwork and pay fees on my own. The SCT staff in the Baja California state capital, Mexicali, eventually knew what I wanted for when I visited that office.

The IFT is an independent government agency, separate from the SCT, and more like how the FCC operates in the US. IFT claims it has no authority to issue permits to foreign hams. Maybe it doesn't accept that agreement from the early 1990s, since it was signed by the SCT and not IFT. I don't know why, but this continues to be a problem for foreign hams. IFT has had enough problems with licensing new Mexican hams, and renewing existing licenses, since everything must be transacted in Mexico City. Paperwork for IFT can't be submitted through SCT offices around the country, as was the case in the past.

If they did, XF4 would be activated for just about every major contest or at least regularly.

Even in the 2000s when I was getting my XE permits, the permits issued to foreign hams came with "strings" attached.

Here is a scan of one of my permits from 2003. This is basically similar to all of the permits I received from CoFeTel between 2000 and 2010:



The one-sentence paragraph in bold above the signature at the bottom that starts with "El presente no lo autoriza ... " translates to "This does not authorize participation in DX contests, special contests and expeditions, nor operating in the Mexican Islands." This was included in each permit I received. I would have loved to work contests from there, but I didn't want to lose the opportunity to get permits in the future. If I was in Mexico during a contest, I would avoid operating in the band/mode combinations used for the contest.

There was one way I could legally participate in a contest, expedition, or even a special-event station from Mexican territory when I was traveling down there. If a Mexican ham applied for a special call sign for that station, I would need to be listed on the application, along with the other operators that would operate under the special call sign. The group would need to have more Mexican hams than foreign hams, something not spelled out in the regulations at that time, but enforced by CoFeTel. I would still need to obtain my own XE permit, even when operating under a special call sign - something I did in 2003. I don't know how IFT would handle an application for a special call sign now, if any of the operators listed on the paperwork are foreigners.

Also, keep in mind XF4 is not like the islands off Cancun. XF4 is not a tourist destination, and even in the best of times access is restricted. It is more like operating from KG4 since access is controlled by the Mexican navy, except the authorities in Mexico City - SCT, CoFeTel, or now IFT - and not the Mexican navy would issue the special call sign used from there.

73!
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 10:53:44 AM by WD9EWK » Logged

Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK
http://www.wd9ewk.net/ - Twitter: @WD9EWK
VE3VEE
Member

Posts: 1818




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« Reply #64 on: May 29, 2018, 04:46:05 AM »

The following is from this morning's The Daily DX:

Many have been asking about QSLs from the recent 4B4B operation from
the Revillagigedo Islands by XE1B/NA6U (ex XE1MCG, XE1KB, XE1MX),
Marcos Campos. This was his third trip to XF4 and with major problems
getting QSL cards for the past two operations. Your editor emailed
Mark multiple times both before and after the most recent operation
with zero responses. After not receiving his 4B4B QSL K2SN, Steve,
"entered a case at PayPal complaining that 4B4B had not sent [him] the
QSLs for his recent DXpedition and had not responded to [his] email".
Yesterday Steve received a phone call from Mark, who was "very
upset about the complaint" stating "he is too busy to answer emails,
but he wants everyone to know that he has had QSLs printed and will be
sending them out". Mark plans to do "all the work himself and will
need up to six months to complete the job".


Source: http://www.dailydx.com/

Marvin VE3VEE
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N5INP
Member

Posts: 1964




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« Reply #65 on: May 29, 2018, 05:34:21 AM »

To not answer legitimate emails is ridiculous. He has legitimate issues with some of the times in his log - they are recorded in some time zone that is WRONG. I had to guess what time zone it was before getting his Club Log OQRS to match my CORRECT UTC time. I have been PMed here by others that could not get their log times to match his log. I tried multiple times to contact him at several different emails and got zippo for a response.

Part of the responsibility he has is to answer emails that are of great concern to the people he contacted. Who knows how many others could not get their times to match on the days he had recorded incorrect times.  Angry
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 05:37:03 AM by N5INP » Logged
VE3VEE
Member

Posts: 1818




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« Reply #66 on: May 29, 2018, 05:54:12 AM »

Taking care of paper QSLs is time consuming. I personally would be happy with just an LOTW confirmation. It would take a minute to upload the entire DXpedition log to LOTW.

Marvin VE3VEE
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N3QE
Member

Posts: 5472




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« Reply #67 on: May 29, 2018, 06:24:55 AM »

To not answer legitimate emails is ridiculous. He has legitimate issues with some of the times in his log

Just a hint to 4B4B: Updating your QRZ.com page with QSL status and a note about resolving log time errors (evidently Clublog help desk has been helping with offset hints?) would go a HUGE HUGE WAY to reducing his E-mail load.

We could also remind EVERYONE that few to no major team DXpeditions get their paper cards out in the 1-2 month timeframe. Yes there are a handful that are snappy but they are very much the exception.
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N5INP
Member

Posts: 1964




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« Reply #68 on: May 29, 2018, 07:17:34 AM »

Just a hint to 4B4B: Updating your QRZ.com page with QSL status and a note about resolving log time errors (evidently Clublog help desk has been helping with offset hints?) would go a HUGE HUGE WAY to reducing his E-mail load.

Yes Club Log was VERY helpful as to what was wrong.  Cheesy They examined the log and gave a hint that it seemed that he did not use UTC to log the contacts - I do not know how many days it was wrong, but I kept using times +/- offset in hours from UTC until the OQRS system accepted my request. I hate doing it like that but when the guy refuses to answer my several emails trying to help him, what else can we do?

Quote
We could also remind EVERYONE that few to no major team DXpeditions get their paper cards out in the 1-2 month timeframe. Yes there are a handful that are snappy but they are very much the exception.

I agree the paper delay is of no concern to me at all, they do take a long time. But uploads are done in a day.
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N3QE
Member

Posts: 5472




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« Reply #69 on: May 29, 2018, 07:46:57 AM »

They examined the log and gave a hint that it seemed that he did not use UTC to log the contacts - I do not know how many days it was wrong, but I kept using times +/- offset in hours from UTC until the OQRS system accepted my request. I hate doing it like that but when the guy refuses to answer my several emails trying to help him, what else can we do?

I know that contest log-checkers will note a consistent time offset in a log and automatically use it in the log checking process.

(Well, really what they are doing is looking for rubber-clocking band changes in multi-op stations but this is a side effect.)

I wonder if some of that technology could be used on 2-way Clublog data to correct 4B4B's log for him. I have reached out to 4B4B to see if he wants any help but as you note he isn't replying.
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W5JON
Member

Posts: 346




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« Reply #70 on: July 09, 2018, 12:23:06 PM »

Hi,

Paid my $$ on April 10, but no QSL or LoTW. Has anyone heard or seen anything?

73,

John V47JA
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K0UA
Member

Posts: 2807




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« Reply #71 on: July 09, 2018, 12:49:36 PM »

Taking care of paper QSLs is time consuming. I personally would be happy with just an LOTW confirmation. It would take a minute to upload the entire DXpedition log to LOTW.

Marvin VE3VEE

I know.  I sent the money for the cards.  I don't want the stinking cards, I want LOTW confirmation.  Why on earth do people want these cards?  They are a pain to deal with and I either have to send them in and risk loss or drive 150 miles one way to get them confirmed.  Why in this day and age can't they upload their logs to LOTW.  It is just archaic and silly not to. If they need to charge money like this $10 to finance the operation, I am good with that.  I will send the money,  Now  why not do an LOTW upload.  It takes seconds.  Less than filling out a QSL card and putting it in an envelope and mailing it and spending money on their end to mail it. It is just Dumb.
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W5JON
Member

Posts: 346




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« Reply #72 on: July 09, 2018, 01:00:34 PM »

Taking care of paper QSLs is time consuming. I personally would be happy with just an LOTW confirmation. It would take a minute to upload the entire DXpedition log to LOTW.

Marvin VE3VEE

Hi,

I agree, if they take the 30 seconds to do a LoTW Upload, and I will be a happy camper. No paper required.

73,

John
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N3QE
Member

Posts: 5472




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« Reply #73 on: July 09, 2018, 01:05:53 PM »

I don't want the stinking cards, I want LOTW confirmation.

Of current (not deleted) entities, I am at 316 worked, 311 confirmed in LOTW. The 5 LOTW holdouts are:

KH1 (expect LOTW upload within the month)
4B4B (expect paper card)
V85TL (have not yet bothered with paper card!)
JG8NQJ/JD1 (have paper card)
SV2ASP/A (have paper card)

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WO7R
Member

Posts: 3251




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« Reply #74 on: July 09, 2018, 02:36:48 PM »

Quote
Taking care of paper QSLs is time consuming.

I know a bit about this from my minor DXpeditioning.  I do not have all of their problems, but I do have some and can extrapolate the rest.

To make a long story short, the real issue is the time from the end of the expedition to the mailing of the first card.  After that first card is mailed, the rest you can expect to come out en masse or a trickle, depending on the QSL manager's time.

The real cause of the delay to that time of first card mailed is likely along these lines:

1.  The card will always have pictures from the expedition, so QSL design really doesn't start until the team gets home.  For a major DXpedition, this can be two to four weeks before anything happens.

2.  It takes a while for the team to agree on the pictures, the text, and also (in an operation like KH1) take care to place all of the various donor logos cleanly and legibly.  The log may also require some cleanup, but usually that would happen during the design.  This can take days to a bit over a week.

3.  Even after the team approves the design, there is sill several days of back-and-forth with the QSL card printer to make sure the design is what the team wanted.  It's amazing how many little typos or glitches can happen ("OMG, somehow, between our agreement of our design and the version of the design sent to the printer, the Norther Cal logo somehow vanished").

4.  For an order this large (KH1 will probably print about 15,000 cards with 20,000 plus uniques), there will be some delay to get the cards back from the printer.

This can easily run out a couple of months.
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