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Author Topic: Bosch dishwasher trashed and my noise dropped 25 db  (Read 3090 times)
WB8VLC
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Posts: 627




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« on: May 18, 2018, 06:40:40 PM »

Wow,

 I am noise free on all bands from 7 to 54 MHz no thanks to Bosch or Sears.

After  a year of no help from Bosch or Sears I got rid of the POS Bosch POS dishwasher.

Briefly poking around the controller board with a Rhode & Schwarz E/H field probe kit and a borrowed FSh-4 portable spectrum analyzer I was seeing emissions from ~ 1 MHz to over 220 MHz  which I traced to the POS Fairchild, now On semiconductor, motor controller IC.

Now I'm planning on taking my e/h-field probe kit and FSH-4 analyzer to all the appliance stores to find the quietest replacement.

Add Bosch to the list of crap that the FCC should not allow to be sold.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 06:48:57 PM by WB8VLC » Logged
W9IQ
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Posts: 3217




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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2018, 06:56:47 PM »

White goods are specifically excluded from the Part 15 requirements.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

I never make a mistake. I thought I did once but I was wrong.
WE6C
Member

Posts: 105




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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2018, 02:24:25 AM »

My Frigidaire only emits RFI when on/running so hasn't been a problem coordinating washing and radio, but my next dishwasher will be old style such as you turn the knob and push the button, if they even exist.
Bob
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WB4SPT
Member

Posts: 769




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« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2018, 08:14:41 AM »

Darn;    I was hoping to avoid the Whirlpool/Maytag/KitchenAid/Jenn-Air/Amana monolith with a decent alternative.  Surprised that Bosch, with its high performance rating was so bad as a RF emitter.  Does yours have a CE mark?   I'll have to look up what that standard demands for a euro marketed appliance. 
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WB4SPT
Member

Posts: 769




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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2018, 05:21:12 PM »

EMC rules for european appliances:

http://etsemc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/EN55014-1.pdf
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K8BYP
Member

Posts: 256




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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2018, 11:23:36 AM »

White goods are specifically excluded from the Part 15 requirements.

- Glenn W9IQ

(d) A digital device utilized exclusively in an appliance, e.g., microwave oven, dishwasher, clothes dryer, air conditioner (central or window), etc.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=a2f2c1d3b26b559d8349c91e848cad89&mc=true&node=se47.1.15_1103&rgn=div8


Yep, but it shouldnt be...as this instance proves. Theres absolutely no excuse for such poor design, its just "made as cheaply as possible"

A line choke might cost 12 cents..
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WB8VLC
Member

Posts: 627




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« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2018, 11:57:30 AM »

It's only 3 years old and now the mfg is telling me that that the water pump assy IS NLA.

The on-semiconductor motor controller IC  croaked because the original installer failed to install an air gap which killed the pump which killed the controller and resulted in the crappy designed plastic cover controller board to burn up which also killed the u-processor.

Of course the installer claimes when I bought the house there wasn't an air gap in the original 27year old washer so they aren't covering damages.

When the kitchen was remodelled I should have kept the original 27 year old mechanical dishwasher which while outdated visually worked fine electrically and mechanically but of course the deciding factor was that B0SS (BRAVO ZERO SIERRA SIERRA, not a ham BTW) insisted on a new fangled fancy modern POS dishwasher.

Everything died out of warranty BTW so now I'm borrowing my neighbors YAESU FT817 and a Rhode handheld spectrum analyzer to take to the various appliance stores to test out the emissions.

I don't care how geeky It is either, If I am paying for a replacement with my own money then the appliance salespeople need to put up with my tests.

It's really nice to be able to operate 40/20 and 17 meters with a ~-112 dbm noise floor on 40 and around -123dbm on 20/17 where previously I was faced with around -87 to -97 dbm on those bands.

Prior to the Bosch croaking I was using a noise nulling box along with 3 strategically place noise source antennas just to get down around -93 to -97 dbm on those bands.

In the mean time doing dishes by hand really isn't that bad.

Also I suspect any ce or other useless rating is meaningless because the mfg can supply their own data which of course is biased in their favor.

I seriously doubt that consumer reports or any other consumer group has any idea as to what constitutes acceptable RFI.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 12:14:26 PM by WB8VLC » Logged
WB4SPT
Member

Posts: 769




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« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2018, 05:05:46 PM »

Quite the tale of woe.  Which store allows u to turn on a DW?
Dont forget the LISN. Most of this hf mess runs into the mains.
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WD4HXG
Member

Posts: 375




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« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2018, 03:04:57 AM »

It isn't just dishwashers. My daughter and her Mother found a lamp years back
which produced S-9 wideband noise. Even a block away the noise was still an
awful racket in the AM Broadcast Band. It had some sort of CMOS controller
enabling the lamp base to be touched to turn it on and off. When off it was
an ultrawideband CB Kilowatt racketmaker.

Unfortunately this tripe is creeping in from 40,000 different directions. There are
the laptop computer power supply units. I sent three back to a vendor before
they supplied one which looked different than the first three that actually did not
interfere with everything but FIOS. Not sure it was really intended for use with my
box but ......

The really bad news is microcontrollers are being installed in everything. I
replaced the hotwater heater about 10 years back and behold, it uses a
pc board with some form of microcontroller. Even more insulting is it uses a
cockamamey direct connect to the AC mains switching power supply. If you
live on a ratty AC mains it is bad new as the board will blow up if you look
at it wrong.

About four years ago the HVAC thermostat went out for lunch and failed to return.
While it did not seem to cause any RFI it was a freaking geezer's nightmare
with more features to be programmed than Carter has Little Liver Pills.

When the Central HVAC had to be replaced last fall the permitting process specified
a new code compliant thermostat had to be installed. So what was delivered
with it? Yep another new and improved mandatory programming required
thermostat. It also required the expensive replacement of the control wiring
from the thermostat to the Central HVAC with shielded wire to shut the RFI
racket up.

Even the range and microwave get into the act. Both seem to have control
units built by North American Flicker and Flash. Now I am looking for a
replacement refrigerator and the salesman cannot quit slobbering over the
built in wireless capability. We are going to keep on adding to the RF
cacophoney until Marvin the Martian and drops in with his planetary
demolition blaster.

Don't even get me started on the new CFL and LED lighting. Talk about racket
makers.

OK, down off the soap box and off to work so I can pay for some other screwball's
latest greatest microcontroller pain in the derriere hash generating bean counter's
pipe dream.

<Rant Off>

Regards
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