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Author Topic: Yaesu FTDX 101MP will challenge the Icom IC 7610  (Read 12753 times)
HB9PJT
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« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2019, 12:38:29 AM »

Glen, this is very interesting. These are new reflections. VHF/UHF is very demanding in terms of dynamics. If 2 contest stations with line of sight at a distance of 10 km have positioned their directional antennas with 15 or 18 dBd gain to each other and one station transmits with 1000 Watt while the other station wants to pick up a quiet station of -140 or 130 dBm. Such requirements do not exist on shortwave. The TRX development remains exciting.

73, Peter - HB9PJT
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W6RZ
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« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2019, 01:25:50 AM »

It will be interesting to see which ADC is used in the IC-9700. The price of 1 Gsps ADC's have actually become reasonable. An Analog Devices AD9690-1000 is $300 in single quantities.

A 1 Gsps ADC is a little more capable. The AD9690 would have 127.4 dB of overload to noise floor range on 2 meters. With a 20 dB gain ADC driver, it would be -11.4 dBm overload to -138.8 dBm 500 Hz MDS.
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VK1XX
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« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2019, 01:46:41 AM »

The thing with the 1Gs ADCS is their SNR doesnt really scale with clock linearly... Well actually the 1 Gig ones are not too bad, the 4 Gig ones are not great. 

HOWEVER ! still the SFDR and IMD are the same limiting factor.

The ADC9690 (at a gig)  is listed as only 85dB SFDR which is trash compared to a 250 MHz 12 bit ADC costing $50 .
Two tone is -87 on a good day. In reality it will probably be 3dB worse than that over input.

And that is at 200 MHz.  It gets worse. the S&H just are not good enough

Peter your analysis is correct !

-glen VK1XX / AI6UM
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N6YFM
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« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2019, 11:06:35 PM »

Personally, I think the FTDX-101looks just fine.  Glad to see Yaesu is picking up the DSP gauntlet and modernizing their products.  Now if only they can get the menu/control panel ergonomics right...  We'll see.

WTF?    Menu?  Yaesu??  User Interface??   Ergonomics?   Are you allowed to say that in the same place?

The "User Interface" and Menu System (sic) on the FT-DX3000, well, um, er, just plain hurt my head...
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VE3WGO
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« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2019, 07:03:33 AM »

Most modern radios have menu systems that produce headaches.  The signals of interest have often moved on by the time we get to the menu adjustment that would have improved reception on the desired signal.

The very best solution will be for fully programmable menus that can be configured *easily* to the user's own preferences, and placed on "quick-keys" on a touch screen or soft keys adjacent to the screen if the user prefers that.

The manufacturers who evolve to that user interface will be the ones who get the most market share, IMHO.  The present crop of menu driven radios is so bad compared to their knobbed ancestors that it makes me wonder how hams can stand using them.

The performance of most mid and upper level radios is approaching the point of perfection, but adjusting the radio easily and quickly to make use of that performance potential takes so long and is so ambiguous that the effort is often wasted.  It is even possible to erode the performance very badly by mis-adjustment of these often arcane menu settings. It would be like having 32 menu items in nested menus on a touch screen to make your car's engine operate well while you are driving.  Car manufacturers learned to avoid those distractions 100 years ago.

But the newest crop of car and electronics designers don't care.  They seem to have completely slept through their "ergonomics" and "human factors" classes in Industrial Design school.  Or maybe these designers never even took those classes at all.  And the result is the trash that they foist on us in the user interfaces of our new cars and electronic devices nowadays.

Apple is the lone exception.  They design well.  (and I say that as a very disappointed Windows8.1 and Windows10 user, an annoyed new car owner, and a cynical new HF radio shopper)

73, Ed

ps.  my favourite Yaesu radio is my FT-847.  Not a top end performer by any means, but so easy to adjust, easy to see what the various control settings are, and the receive audio was actually quite nice.  If only Yaesu had given it a slightly better HF receiver and a bandscope, it would have been a nice HF-VHF-UHF radio for today's market.  But then they replaced it with the FT-991/A and lost the nice user interface and the full duplex satellite capability.  Sad
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 07:10:53 AM by VE3WGO » Logged
KX2T
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« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2019, 05:21:28 PM »

I remember when the FT1000MP hit the streets back in the mid nineties, many were bitching about the menu's on that radio, either they just didn't understand the slight cryptic style of the lettering or just too many menu options to handle. Funny yet after about an hours time I had everything set and ready to go plus it was one of the few newer rigs that you could also vary the carrier oscillator and really get excellent SSB performance. Clearly even a rig like a 7300 which is easy to use and menu driven I would bet hams will still complain, all it takes maybe a few minutes to RTFM and your good to go. 
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K6BRN
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« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2019, 08:17:56 PM »

LOL!

Quote
WTF?    Menu?  Yaesu??  User Interface??   Ergonomics?   Are you allowed to say that in the same place?

The "User Interface" and Menu System (sic) on the FT-DX3000, well, um, er, just plain hurt my head...

The Yaesu FTDX-3000 is an excellent radio, and now, after three years I'm fully comfortable with the odd menu.  Intuitive, it's not.  And rather sloppy, it IS. (call me "Yoda")

I recently found that menu items 126 SCOPE AUTO TIME and 127 START DIAL TIME do.... nothing at all.  On the FTDX-1200 this used to mute audio and activate scanning of the waterfall display.  But it's also on the FTDX-3000.  Sort of like an appendix.  It probably would have been more exciting if Yaesu labelled menu item 126 "SELF-DESTRUCT" and then had the voice memory card start a countdown when activated.

Now, for those of you who are familar with the FLEX-6600, it's got a few tricks, too.  Auto-delete of audio drivers, for instance.  Either that, or FLEX really pissed off Bill Gates.  And.... surprise!  Nothing inside!  What IS it with all that empty chassis space, anyway.  I have a good friend with one and he keeps dog treats in it.  He cut out a slice of the top, put in hinges and a knob to open it and calls it the "Glove Compartment".  I guess that's an undocumented feature.

And don't get me started on the ICOM IC-7610.  They NEVER should have put a DVI output on that radio.  I mean, why did they, anyway?  My good buddy who runs CW at 50 WPM (sounds like a drunken buzz-saw) was trying to watch the Superbowl on it last weekend.  He kept mumbling "Is this the half-time show"  while watching the waterfall display and adjusting the noise blanker.  VERY confusing radio for some of us.  Well... he IS an old-timer.  Nearly 60.  Not young like the rest of us.

There's just no perfect radio, anymore.  Not since the Heathkit HW-101 with 400 Hz CW  filter.  That was the zenith of technology, mark my words.  Chasing DX with that radio ment running a marathon with your fingers on the tuning knob, since the VFO was about as stable as a drunken mule on a tighrope.  Nothing more fun exists today.

Sigh!

OK.  Back to working 40M.  Good night!

Brian - K6BRN



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N0YXB
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« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2019, 08:53:38 PM »

There's just no perfect radio, anymore.  Not since the Heathkit HW-101 with 400 Hz CW  filter.  That was the zenith of technology, mark my words.  Chasing DX with that radio ment running a marathon with your fingers on the tuning knob, since the VFO was about as stable as a drunken mule on a tighrope.  Nothing more fun exists today.

Those were the days! I recently saw one at a hamfest and thought about buying it. That's what nostalgia will do to you.   Wink
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AB9TX
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« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2019, 04:32:21 PM »

And don't get me started on the ICOM IC-7610.  They NEVER should have put a DVI output on that radio.  I mean, why did they, anyway?
 
Brian, DVI connectors are vastly more robust than HDMI connectors.
I wouldn't of bought my IC7610 without it.
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K6BRN
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« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2019, 03:30:52 PM »

Earl (AB9TX):

Quote
Brian, DVI connectors are vastly more robust than HDMI connectors

I was actually joking about having ANY video connector on a transceiver because some old-timers (potentially ME) will get confused and try and watch the Superbowl on their rig.  See earlier bad joke by me.

Regarding DVI vs. HDMI, I've heard that HDMI is a licensed connector (with fee) that includes content protection support, whereas DVI is an open standard without HDCP.  Somebody out there will probably add to or adjust what I just said to be more accurate.

No need for HDCP on the IC-7610.  No need to incurr extra fees.  Hence no HDMI connector.

Which do I prefer?  Whichever works, and they both do.  Neither has given me any problems on the many, many device I have that use both connectors.  In fact, I have a box full of connector changers for DVI-HDMI, simply because the HDMI cables are more popular and are pretty cheap around here.  HDMI-DVI translators do NOT work so well when HDCP is included.

So... whichever connector you prefer... does not matter to me, too much.

Best Regards,

Brian - K6BRN
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KX2T
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« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2019, 05:56:05 PM »

With regards to the HDMI DVI thing, since Ico made the USB3 port active to work with HDSDR this blows and other output for a Pan/waterfall display away yet a year ago the nay sayers were bitching and moaning like a bunch of democrats, lol...
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K6BRN
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« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2019, 06:17:02 PM »

So... are a lot of IC-7610 operators using  HDSDR with the IC-7610?

Just curious.  I am thinking of picking up the Icom to play with/open up and compare directly to a good friends Flex-6600
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NI8R
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« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2019, 04:57:06 PM »

So... are a lot of IC-7610 operators using  HDSDR with the IC-7610?

Just curious.  I am thinking of picking up the Icom to play with/open up and compare directly to a good friends Flex-6600

Brian, why not experiment. Buy a icom 7851. enjoy the best superhet ever made. Big enough to put your ftdx3000 on top, instant so3r.


Greg Ni8R

p.s I seen you use the word "Zenith", Hope you own the best Zenith, the El Primero!!!!!!


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K6BRN
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« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2019, 06:20:15 PM »

Hi Greg:

"The Best" is pretty personal and less about specs than expectations.  The "best" way to start a food fight is to nominate the "best" radio.  I'm not really into "big" at the moment.  So no IC-7851 for me.

And I hear your sarcasm. 

But...  When buying is no longer a thrill, what do you do?  Look for something interesting and new, that takes a fresh approach.  And when that is exhausted, it sits on the shelf.  And then into the donation bin.  I have a list of good organizations I've mentioned from time to time that take radios, antennas and other equipment and put them to good use, either by young technologists in STEM schools or in some very good museums for remarkable (and some not-so-remarkable) older equipment.  Let me know if you need it.

Quote
p.s I seen you use the word "Zenith", Hope you own the best Zenith, the El Primero!!!!!!

If you mean the watch (and it's interesting history), we can talk about that and horology on another forum.  Just let me know.  But the battles over the "Best Watch" are just as fierce as with the best radio.

Best Regards,

Brian - K6BRN
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NI8R
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« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2019, 06:42:55 AM »

Hi Greg:

"The Best" is pretty personal and less about specs than expectations.  The "best" way to start a food fight is to nominate the "best" radio.  I'm not really into "big" at the moment.  So no IC-7851 for me.

And I hear your sarcasm. 

But...  When buying is no longer a thrill, what do you do?  Look for something interesting and new, that takes a fresh approach.  And when that is exhausted, it sits on the shelf.  And then into the donation bin.  I have a list of good organizations I've mentioned from time to time that take radios, antennas and other equipment and put them to good use, either by young technologists in STEM schools or in some very good museums for remarkable (and some not-so-remarkable) older equipment.  Let me know if you need it.

Quote
p.s I seen you use the word "Zenith", Hope you own the best Zenith, the El Primero!!!!!!

If you mean the watch (and it's interesting history), we can talk about that and horology on another forum.  Just let me know.  But the battles over the "Best Watch" are just as fierce as with the best radio.

Best Regards,

Brian - K6BRN

Brian , l always enjoy to read your replies.

I am always quick to recommend the 7851, as i own one and consider it a marvel. I have owned most modern superhet designs and can tell you it is as good or better than most duc/ddc platforms including my flex 6500 and the Anan 100d, at 4 times the price of the Anan, what a deal!!!!

I sold my 116523 after purchasing a El Primero flyback blashford snell edition. I will buy a replacement but another model.
email me off line adn tell me of your favorite.

Greg NI8R  kc8iir@yahoo.com
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