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Author Topic: USING YOUR CALLSIGN ON EHAM  (Read 10209 times)
KB2CRK
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« Reply #165 on: December 02, 2018, 12:57:32 PM »

I wonder if anyone can post a factual occurrence where a person was tracked down by their call sign and had anything happen.

I don't think they were sure why in this article but they did call out the hostility in amateur radio forums

http://www.hidesertstar.com/news/article_fd5bba24-acb8-11e8-9fa6-d3419738127a.html

I believe there is an instance I've heard of a while back where someone was tracked down to their home and killed...

People don't post their real names and addresses in craiglist or most other websites, why is that?, so it's probably not a bad idea to consider where your data ends up.

(Amateur radio sites and facebook seem to be the notable exceptions. But I think things are changing now and people are realizing what people can do with just a name and address plus a little bit of information.  People have been publicly shamed on the internet (perhaps erroneously and needlessly) just with  a name, some have even lost their jobs due to it.)


I think we should look to be more inclusive  in this day and age an realize just like on most other websites folks don't use their real names/addresses and just be ok with that (which I think it is here but on the air its required).

Would it really hurt amateur radio if the license database only had first name, callsign, town and state? That's not an unreasonable thing to lobby the arrl/ FCC for is it?
Are folks opposed to that?

There are lots of communities/websites online that seem to work just fine with just a handle (even CB folks used to and probably still do just use made up handles)

When you get an auto license they don't post all of your info online?  When you get a passport they dont post all of your info online? When you even get a gun license they don't post all of your info online?  Amateur radio I think gets a little bit of special treatment on exposure more than other licenses.




When all of your info is still available anywhere on the world wide web what difference does it make. If someone want to track someone down they will with or without a callsign.
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WXSHAM
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Posts: 77




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« Reply #166 on: December 02, 2018, 01:05:17 PM »

I wonder if anyone can post a factual occurrence where a person was tracked down by their call sign and had anything happen.

I don't think they were sure why in this article but they did call out the hostility in amateur radio forums

http://www.hidesertstar.com/news/article_fd5bba24-acb8-11e8-9fa6-d3419738127a.html

I believe there is an instance I've heard of a while back where someone was tracked down to their home and killed...

People don't post their real names and addresses in craiglist or most other websites, why is that?, so it's probably not a bad idea to consider where your data ends up.

(Amateur radio sites and facebook seem to be the notable exceptions. But I think things are changing now and people are realizing what people can do with just a name and address plus a little bit of information.  People have been publicly shamed on the internet (perhaps erroneously and needlessly) just with  a name, some have even lost their jobs due to it.)


I think we should look to be more inclusive  in this day and age an realize just like on most other websites folks don't use their real names/addresses and just be ok with that (which I think it is here but on the air its required).

Would it really hurt amateur radio if the license database only had first name, callsign, town and state? That's not an unreasonable thing to lobby the arrl/ FCC for is it?
Are folks opposed to that?

There are lots of communities/websites online that seem to work just fine with just a handle (even CB folks used to and probably still do just use made up handles)

When you get an auto license they don't post all of your info online?  When you get a passport they dont post all of your info online? When you even get a gun license they don't post all of your info online?  Amateur radio I think gets a little bit of special treatment on exposure more than other licenses.




When all of your info is still available anywhere on the world wide web what difference does it make. If someone want to track someone down they will with or without a callsign.

This still goes back to why don't people post their full name and address on craigslist and most other sites.  To reduce risk. Maybe the percentage chance is very small but people still avoid posting that info.  Why do you lock your door at home?  Almost anyone can pick it or break it down. It's just a little extra safety.

Would folks really be against a proposal to only have first name, callsign and town/state in the FCC database?  Why argue against proposals that might help some folks feel a little safer.  Like locking the door of your house, not putting your name on an ad on craigslist, etc.

It won't harm anyone and might bring more folks into the hobby (do we think doing that would bring less folks?)


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KB2CRK
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« Reply #167 on: December 02, 2018, 01:12:45 PM »

I think we have enough tin foil hat wearers in the hobby already. Why help more?
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some people are like slinky's. not really good for anything but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
KM1H
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« Reply #168 on: December 02, 2018, 01:27:28 PM »

Quote
This still goes back to why don't people post their full name and address on craigslist and most other sites.  To reduce risk. Maybe the percentage chance is very small but people still avoid posting that info.  Why do you lock your door at home?  Almost anyone can pick it or break it down. It's just a little extra safety.

Would folks really be against a proposal to only have first name, callsign and town/state in the FCC database?  Why argue against proposals that might help some folks feel a little safer.  Like locking the door of your house, not putting your name on an ad on craigslist, etc.

It won't harm anyone and might bring more folks into the hobby (do we think doing that would bring less folks?)

However ham ads require a displayed QSL or other method of showing a valid call over a certain $$ value.

The same for the person starting an Eham review....but any one can reply with any name.

Personally Im all for restricting ham growth, especially at the entry level, until it becomes a real technically based license again and not the fluff it has turned into. Attract those who will stay in the fold unlike the bloat now that has expired licenses with many never getting on the air.

For the ARRL it is ALL about the money as they charge advertisers based upon total FCC records currently about 27K (in 2017) of deadwood or became Silent Keys.  AND run an ever growing publishing empire of questionable worth.

Carl
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WXSHAM
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« Reply #169 on: December 02, 2018, 01:32:26 PM »

I think we have enough tin foil hat wearers in the hobby already. Why help more?

I don't think we should be equating all the folks that use craigslist and most other sites that don't use their real name and address as tin foil hat wearers (probably 90+% of the population that don't use their real name and address on most other sites - other than facebook of course.)?

There are millions of sites that operate that way.  Does it really hurt us if folks want to propose first name, callsign, town/state for the license database? Or don't like that info published.  Its not like anyone can really do anything about it at the moment.  But I think it's not a bad thing for us as a community to be open to the ideas. What does it hurt?



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WXSHAM
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« Reply #170 on: December 02, 2018, 01:38:17 PM »

Quote
This still goes back to why don't people post their full name and address on craigslist and most other sites.  To reduce risk. Maybe the percentage chance is very small but people still avoid posting that info.  Why do you lock your door at home?  Almost anyone can pick it or break it down. It's just a little extra safety.

Would folks really be against a proposal to only have first name, callsign and town/state in the FCC database?  Why argue against proposals that might help some folks feel a little safer.  Like locking the door of your house, not putting your name on an ad on craigslist, etc.

It won't harm anyone and might bring more folks into the hobby (do we think doing that would bring less folks?)

However ham ads require a displayed QSL or other method of showing a valid call over a certain $$ value.

The same for the person starting an Eham review....but any one can reply with any name.

Personally Im all for restricting ham growth, especially at the entry level, until it becomes a real technically based license again and not the fluff it has turned into. Attract those who will stay in the fold unlike the bloat now that has expired licenses with many never getting on the air.

For the ARRL it is ALL about the money as they charge advertisers based upon total FCC records currently about 27K (in 2017) of deadwood or became Silent Keys.  AND run an ever growing publishing empire of questionable worth.

Carl

I definitely appreciate that idea.  It sounds like you are saying there are many licensees not on the air already and you wouldn't mind if more were not on the air?  I can appreciate the technical experience part of it. I like that aspect of it.  I think the license levels kind of handle that to some extent.  The non technical folks won't end up on the extra parts of the bands.  I have an extra license but haven't got into building my own radio yet but I plan to.  I think this hobby might be more fun with more people on the air though, no ?  If there are too few people doing this I think the FCC may be more likely to pull bandwidth so kind of a catch 22?


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KB2CRK
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« Reply #171 on: December 02, 2018, 01:56:57 PM »

I think we have enough tin foil hat wearers in the hobby already. Why help more?

I don't think we should be equating all the folks that use craigslist and most other sites that don't use their real name and address as tin foil hat wearers (probably 90+% of the population that don't use their real name and address on most other sites - other than facebook of course.)?

There are millions of sites that operate that way.  Does it really hurt us if folks want to propose first name, callsign, town/state for the license database? Or don't like that info published.  Its not like anyone can really do anything about it at the moment.  But I think it's not a bad thing for us as a community to be open to the ideas. What does it hurt?





Craigslist I understand being anonymous. The buyers are also the same and unknown. There is a reason for open records in a government setting. But then what does it matter. You are apparently afraid of someone knowing who you are. I on the other hand could care less who knows who I am and where I am. Here on a Ham radio discussion board I have no problem using my call as this site is less public than the bands where anyone can listen in, get your call and look up your address. Remember you must ID on the air every 20 minutes so 3 times every hour you are making your call public to anyone who might be listening.
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some people are like slinky's. not really good for anything but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
WXSHAM
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« Reply #172 on: December 02, 2018, 02:13:29 PM »

I think we have enough tin foil hat wearers in the hobby already. Why help more?

I don't think we should be equating all the folks that use craigslist and most other sites that don't use their real name and address as tin foil hat wearers (probably 90+% of the population that don't use their real name and address on most other sites - other than facebook of course.)?

There are millions of sites that operate that way.  Does it really hurt us if folks want to propose first name, callsign, town/state for the license database? Or don't like that info published.  Its not like anyone can really do anything about it at the moment.  But I think it's not a bad thing for us as a community to be open to the ideas. What does it hurt?





Craigslist I understand being anonymous. The buyers are also the same and unknown. There is a reason for open records in a government setting. But then what does it matter. You are apparently afraid of someone knowing who you are. I on the other hand could care less who knows who I am and where I am. Here on a Ham radio discussion board I have no problem using my call as this site is less public than the bands where anyone can listen in, get your call and look up your address. Remember you must ID on the air every 20 minutes so 3 times every hour you are making your call public to anyone who might be listening.


For government stuff - the examples of auto license, gun license, passport all don't post your info online right?  Not everything needs to be totally open.  It's not just craigslist that is anonymous but millions of other sites.   We get that, on air we have to identify.  Though usually that isn't recorded and posted online to live forever (not to say it couldn't be I guess).  On the internet our data probably is more likely to be archived stored and indexed somewhere than on air (at the moment I guess).
Is there anything wrong with wanting to try to change things for the future.  Just like a license plate on a car you can't just look up the persons address online.  Why not? (Road rage anyone?)
So they could limit access if they wanted.  Would it really hurt in the future if only name, callsign town/state were in the database?  (You could still file complaints through the FCC website if needed and they would know who it is.) 

Everything doesn't always need to stay the same does it?  (There can be both positive and negative change I guess).  I would think proposing a little less publicity isn't a bad thing.  But everyone has their opinion.  Some people are self conscious, others less so.  But if it doesn't hurt us or what we do I say go for it, why not Smiley  And if it gives folks just that tiny bit of extra security like locking their front door, why not.






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KB2WIG
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« Reply #173 on: December 02, 2018, 02:17:32 PM »




"....... must ID on the air every 20 minutes "


10 minutes.... ..   Somewhere in the CFR.

KLC
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KB2CRK
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« Reply #174 on: December 02, 2018, 03:30:55 PM »




"....... must ID on the air every 20 minutes "


10 minutes.... ..   Somewhere in the CFR.

KLC

You are correct, It is 10 minutes. so 6 times an hour your put your call out on the public airwaves.
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some people are like slinky's. not really good for anything but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
KM1H
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« Reply #175 on: December 02, 2018, 06:03:53 PM »

Quote
I definitely appreciate that idea.  It sounds like you are saying there are many licensees not on the air already and you wouldn't mind if more were not on the air?  I can appreciate the technical experience part of it. I like that aspect of it.  I think the license levels kind of handle that to some extent.  The non technical folks won't end up on the extra parts of the bands.  I have an extra license but haven't got into building my own radio yet but I plan to.  I think this hobby might be more fun with more people on the air though, no ?  If there are too few people doing this I think the FCC may be more likely to pull bandwidth so kind of a catch 22?

There are around 800K hams on the FCC rolls with 755K not expired, and 384K are Techs....do you really want them let loose on all HF/MF bands in a giveaway, especially with sunspots at a low and many dead bands??  You think CB was bad? At least they had decades to build up Shocked

I suggest a new 2019-20 version of Incentive Licensing be developed that rewards those passing a new series of tests that highlight old school technical knowledge....yes include the high school math and add modern technology and how to use it. Include operating skills and ethics.  If they cant pass after 2-3 tries, bye bye and good riddance. Include all currently licensed to retake the tests every 5 or 10 years as technology advances and the country needs high tech workers.

Im a product of the original Incentive Licensing and went from General to Extra including 20 wpm CW at the FCC in Boston on a hot 1968 August day. I was far from alone in that packed room and there was a waiting line. The Incentive for me was to NOT LOSE any frequency privileges. There was no whining in the room either as those there had a goal to shoot for and if some failed they came back better prepared.

Quote
The number of current unexpired FCC issued amateur licenses held by individuals on November 29, 2018 was:

Novice:                    8,409      (1.1%)
Technician            384,060     (50.9%)
Technician Plus                0      (0.0%)
General                175,838     (23.3%)
Advanced               39,720       (5.3%)
Extra                    147,202     (19.5%)

Total                    755,229

Carl
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PITSWL
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« Reply #176 on: December 04, 2018, 09:23:36 AM »

Quote from: WXSHAM
Does it really hurt us if folks want to propose first name, callsign, town/state for the license database? Or don't like that info published.  Its not like anyone can really do anything about it at the moment.  But I think it's not a bad thing for us as a community to be open to the ideas. What does it hurt?

Circa 2018 there is no good reason that anything should be published in the FCC's database about any licensee in a non-remunerative service other than the license class, the expiration date and, perhaps, issue date.
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RENTON481
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« Reply #177 on: December 04, 2018, 08:37:18 PM »


Craigslist I understand being anonymous. The buyers are also the same and unknown. There is a reason for open records in a government setting. But then what does it matter. You are apparently afraid of someone knowing who you are. I on the other hand could care less who knows who I am and where I am. Here on a Ham radio discussion board I have no problem using my call as this site is less public than the bands where anyone can listen in, get your call and look up your address. Remember you must ID on the air every 20 minutes so 3 times every hour you are making your call public to anyone who might be listening.


To access ham radio bands one must have an SSB capable radio -- items which are increasingly difficult to obtain, as there aren't many stores carrying them anymore. The majority of people don't even know what a 'ham radio' is.

Then, if they actually obtain a SSB capable radio, they must have either a knowledge of CW or software to decipher any of a number of digital modes. Yeah, there are SSB QSO's. But you have to listen through static oftentimes to catch an ID. I've heard QSO's go on for half an hour or more without hearing IDs.

On the airwaves, if one wants to ID a ham, one has to seek them out.

This forum, however, is openly accessible by anyone with a computer or a smartphone, and it's searchable by search engines such as Bing and Google. Hence, it's much more public.

So I understand the hesitance of some concerning using callsigns on an open forum. I also understand why the guys who use them do so. Then you have the SWLs and other radio hobbyists who do not use callsigns here, because to use one would be a form of lying.
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KB2CRK
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« Reply #178 on: December 05, 2018, 02:16:07 AM »


Craigslist I understand being anonymous. The buyers are also the same and unknown. There is a reason for open records in a government setting. But then what does it matter. You are apparently afraid of someone knowing who you are. I on the other hand could care less who knows who I am and where I am. Here on a Ham radio discussion board I have no problem using my call as this site is less public than the bands where anyone can listen in, get your call and look up your address. Remember you must ID on the air every 20 minutes so 3 times every hour you are making your call public to anyone who might be listening.


To access ham radio bands one must have an SSB capable radio -- items which are increasingly difficult to obtain, as there aren't many stores carrying them anymore. The majority of people don't even know what a 'ham radio' is.

Then, if they actually obtain a SSB capable radio, they must have either a knowledge of CW or software to decipher any of a number of digital modes. Yeah, there are SSB QSO's. But you have to listen through static oftentimes to catch an ID. I've heard QSO's go on for half an hour or more without hearing IDs.

On the airwaves, if one wants to ID a ham, one has to seek them out.

This forum, however, is openly accessible by anyone with a computer or a smartphone, and it's searchable by search engines such as Bing and Google. Hence, it's much more public.

So I understand the hesitance of some concerning using callsigns on an open forum. I also understand why the guys who use them do so. Then you have the SWLs and other radio hobbyists who do not use callsigns here, because to use one would be a form of lying.

A shortwave receiver is all that is needed to listen and if you believe sideband is keeping your call sign private on the air, well you need to check into it a little further. Before getting my ham license I listened quite a bit.
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some people are like slinky's. not really good for anything but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
ND6M
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« Reply #179 on: December 05, 2018, 07:07:45 AM »

To access ham radio bands one must have an SSB capable radio -- items which are increasingly difficult to obtain, as there aren't many stores carrying them anymore. The majority of people don't even know what a 'ham radio' is.

Then, if they actually obtain a SSB capable radio, they must have either a knowledge of CW or software to decipher any of a number of digital modes. Yeah, there are SSB QSO's. But you have to listen through static oftentimes to catch an ID. I've heard QSO's go on for half an hour or more without hearing IDs.

On the airwaves, if one wants to ID a ham, one has to seek them out.

This forum, however, is openly accessible by anyone with a computer or a smartphone, and it's searchable by search engines such as Bing and Google. Hence, it's much more public.

So I understand the hesitance of some concerning using callsigns on an open forum. I also understand why the guys who use them do so. Then you have the SWLs and other radio hobbyists who do not use callsigns here, because to use one would be a form of lying.

Chris, most of your post is just plain inaccurate.

also, this thread is about licensed people, not SWL's.
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