Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

donate to eham
   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: (Article link) FCC states can't use non-certified radios on amateur bands?  (Read 5581 times)
W9FIB
Member

Posts: 2531




Ignore
« Reply #75 on: October 15, 2018, 08:52:12 PM »

No Stan I think it's you who is mis-comprehending the point here. 

LOL That a lot of writing defending the un-defendable...LOL

I do reserve the right to hold my opinion as a former civil servant as to what I see is the problem and can offer what I think is a solution. Doesn't mean change will happen, but I can keep trying. But my opinion is based on what I see happening quite often in this area.

Here it is...Just like illegal aliens; illegal transmitters need to be stopped at the border. Or like many other things, properly regulated and sold only to those who hold authorization to use the transmitters legally. That's it. That's all. A cave man can understand it.

No matter how much BS you pile on it, that's what I believe and will continue to believe...just like I have stated many times.

BTW in this case, I support the FCC. Not the freebanders and illegal operators of all types. Period. It's that simple. Operate within the rules, and you will get no grief from me. Try to BS me, well that's a horse of a different color.
Logged

73, Stan
Wisdom is knowledge you gain after you know it all.
WXSHAM
Member

Posts: 77




Ignore
« Reply #76 on: November 24, 2018, 09:43:57 PM »


There was mention of this in the November 1st arrl letter

http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter?issue=2018-11-01

Basically just said they are waiting for a response from the FCC.

Another example of the concern is the popular ubitx boards for building a radio, it can operator on virtually any frequency in HF and can likely be expanded to operate VHF and UHF.

Logged
K1FBI
Member

Posts: 230




Ignore
« Reply #77 on: November 25, 2018, 02:46:56 PM »

I don't know about their radios but most Hams are certifiable!
Logged
KB2CRK
Member

Posts: 154


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #78 on: November 25, 2018, 04:59:48 PM »

I don't know about their radios but most Hams are certifiable!


I may be crazy but I am not insane
Logged

some people are like slinky's. not really good for anything but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
N0XAX
Member

Posts: 49




Ignore
« Reply #79 on: November 26, 2018, 11:22:24 PM »

The genie has been out of the bottle way to long!  The FCC has again demonstrated how inept they really are! The FCC never ceases to amaze me with their stupidity! Ok, let's let the Chinese flood our market here with non-type accepted transceivers for a few years. What could be the harm in that? (smile)  Sheer stupidity! And now they want to put the genie back in his bottle? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Logged
W3DBB
Member

Posts: 124




Ignore
« Reply #80 on: November 28, 2018, 04:47:29 AM »

Right.


I had always thought, if you are going to regulate something, you ought to know something about it.

Apparently I was wrong.      Sad
Logged
KB2CRK
Member

Posts: 154


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #81 on: November 28, 2018, 07:55:53 AM »

Correct me if I am wrong but I do not believe there is a certifcation for amateur gear. As we can build our own, Modify other radios to use on the amateur bands and experiment on bands that have no commercial equipment available how can there be one? we do have to make sure we do not interfere or transmit out of band but that has nothing to do with certification. The cheap chinese radios are perfectly legal as long as you make sure yours is not transmitting spurious emmisions. sometimes correcting that is nothing more than turning down the power as any over driven rig could have spurs all over the place.
Logged

some people are like slinky's. not really good for anything but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
N0XAX
Member

Posts: 49




Ignore
« Reply #82 on: November 28, 2018, 08:23:55 PM »

Correct me if I am wrong but I do not believe there is a certifcation for amateur gear. As we can build our own, Modify other radios to use on the amateur bands and experiment on bands that have no commercial equipment available how can there be one? we do have to make sure we do not interfere or transmit out of band but that has nothing to do with certification. The cheap chinese radios are perfectly legal as long as you make sure yours is not transmitting spurious emmisions. sometimes correcting that is nothing more than turning down the power as any over driven rig could have spurs all over the place.

You are right sir, amateur operators can run whatever they want, and long as we use "good radio standards" ie emissions, power, frequency, etc. So why in this point in time is the fcc so concerned about what equipment amateur operators are using? It simply makes no sense? The cheap Chinese radios have been dumped. They should be concerned with unlicensed operators using this type of equipment, not amateur radio operators. I simply don't get it?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 08:26:44 PM by N0XAX » Logged
KB2CRK
Member

Posts: 154


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #83 on: November 29, 2018, 02:14:25 AM »

Correct me if I am wrong but I do not believe there is a certifcation for amateur gear. As we can build our own, Modify other radios to use on the amateur bands and experiment on bands that have no commercial equipment available how can there be one? we do have to make sure we do not interfere or transmit out of band but that has nothing to do with certification. The cheap chinese radios are perfectly legal as long as you make sure yours is not transmitting spurious emmisions. sometimes correcting that is nothing more than turning down the power as any over driven rig could have spurs all over the place.

You are right sir, amateur operators can run whatever they want, and long as we use "good radio standards" ie emissions, power, frequency, etc. So why in this point in time is the fcc so concerned about what equipment amateur operators are using? It simply makes no sense? The cheap Chinese radios have been dumped. They should be concerned with unlicensed operators using this type of equipment, not amateur radio operators. I simply don't get it?

As an amateur I am not worried about it. How will the FCC come after those who are using Cheap Chinese radios when they hardly enforce interference and broadcasting rules. Honestly I do not have any of the CCRs and instead use Cheap Motorola Relics, some with modifications and most are not narrow band compliant. Yes the FCCC needs to crack down on the unlicensed operators who believe these things are CBs
Logged

some people are like slinky's. not really good for anything but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
N5INP
Member

Posts: 2312




Ignore
« Reply #84 on: November 29, 2018, 05:17:09 AM »

I searched Part 97 and the only certification it talks about is certification of RF amplifiers if manufactured or imported for use at an amateur radio station . Even so, if you modify it then that restriction goes away too - IT DOES NOT THEN APPLY ANY LONGER.

Even if the FCC police roaming your 'hood caught you with one of the radios in question, all you need do is tell them you are a ham using it in the ham bands which don't require a certified radio. They would then say "Sorry to bother you have a nice day".


§97.315 Certification of external RF power amplifiers.

(a) Any external RF power amplifier (see §2.815 of the FCC Rules) must be
certificated for use in the amateur service in accordance with subpart J of part 2 of the FCC Rules. No amplifier capable of operation below 144 MHz
may be constructed or modified by a non-amateur service licensee without a grant of certification from the FCC.
(b) The requirement of paragraph (a) does not apply if one or more of the following conditions are met:
(1) The amplifier is constructed or modified by an amateur radio operator for use at an amateur station.
(2) The amplifier was manufactured before April 28, 1978, and has been issued a marketing waiver by the FCC, or the amplifier was purchased
before April 28, 1978, by an amateur radio operator for use at that operator's station.
(3) The amplifier is sold to an amateur radio operator or to a dealer, the amplifier is purchased in used condition by a dealer, or the amplifier is
sold to an amateur radio operator for use at that operator's station.
(c) Any external RF power amplifier appearing in the Commission's database as certificated for use in the amateur service may be marketed for
use in the amateur service.

[71 FR 66465, Nov. 15, 2006]
Logged

Help out the Club Log QSL Card Tagging Project - Tag DX QSL Cards
WD4ED
Member

Posts: 49




Ignore
« Reply #85 on: November 29, 2018, 06:25:56 AM »

Since the consensus (and incorrectly IMHO) here is that hams don't need FCC certification to operate equipment, I guess companies like Yaesu, Kenwood and Icom are simply stupid for allowing themselves to be subjected to such processes.  

There are also other laws potentially involved.  I was told on "the Zed" that "there's no such thing as a illegal radio"!  Sound familiar?  That's not true.  The label "export only" radio is not originated at the FCC.  It's a customs issue.  The radios should not  be marketed to the public in this country.  The radios are contraband.  These cheap Chinese radios could easily be categorized the same way, if not already.  Because they are contraband they still may not be legal for hams to possess and use.  Make any modification to it to operate on legal amateur bands and you are probably fine.  If a ham can turn contraband into a legal radio would be a debatable point.  But would anybody actually be cited for it?  Probably not.  Personally, I configure my station to without question, pass a mythical "random station inspection".

When I first got back into ham radio I was stunned to see that these radios could transmit anywhere.  Either they flew completely under the RADAR or somebody, somewhere was looking the other way.  I'm not surprised that it's finally be addressed.  I also think that it's no coincidence.  I'll wager it was a large marketer of FCC authorized equipment who got tired of losing sales.  Also consider the recent political scrutiny of Chinese imports.  Combine the probable complaints and political scrutiny and you now have what it takes to make the government to care.  

But... then there is enforceability.  Once bought and possessed by a citizen user the odds of prosecution is zip.  Even if you are caught using them to, let's say coordinate drug trafficking as an example.  The odds as still pretty much zero.  Like drugs, it's more efficient to go after the importers and sales distribution point.  Go after those who profit from them.  

Operate yours responsibly and the world will probably never know or care.

Even if software locked to transmit on Ham Bands only, would they pass FCC scrutiny?  Would that force out of banders into ham bands?

But getting a new one in the future may get a little harder or more expensive.    

Thanks,

Ed
Logged
W6BP
Member

Posts: 536




Ignore
« Reply #86 on: November 29, 2018, 10:47:35 AM »

I searched Part 97 and the only certification it talks about is certification of RF amplifiers if manufactured or imported for use at an amateur radio station . Even so, if you modify it then that restriction goes away too - IT DOES NOT THEN APPLY ANY LONGER.

The thing is, this kerfuffle has nothing to do with Part 97. The FCC is interpreting its regulations to mean that if (a) a radio has the ability to transmit on the frequency of a service that requires certification and (b) it does not have that certification, then that radio cannot be legally sold or used in the US for any purpose. If the ARRL has made inroads against this interpretation, I'm unaware of it.

I am not defending this interpretation. Nor do I think that this will ultimately affect any hams who have bought and are using these radios, as there are far too many of them to cite, particularly when one considers the FCC's minuscule enforcement budget. If the interpretation does stand, I think it'll affect only manufacturers and resellers, who will either have to get certification for whatever non-ham services their equipment can transmit on, or restrict the transmit frequencies to ham frequencies only. 










Logged
WXSHAM
Member

Posts: 77




Ignore
« Reply #87 on: November 30, 2018, 01:02:44 PM »

It's even worse than I thought the FCC is saying if your home brew radio could operate outside of amateur bands you need to have your radio tested for type certification. (Though sounds like a catch 22 as once type certified it becomes uncertified if it can operate on ham bands.) So basically making any radios that could illegal with no workaround.


In the first link I posted in this forum thread,  the blogger posted an update with an actual youtube recording of a call with the FCC where the rep actually states that.

So by that ubitx is illegal to use without certification.
Any radio modified from another band to work in an amateur band is apparently also illegal.


I think the arrl really needs to get more involved here to get this clarified.  Most homebrew radios would likely all be illegal without certification by the FCC.

Here is the original link:
https://medium.com/@lucky225/fcc-back-peddles-all-transceivers-capable-of-transmitting-on-frequencies-that-require-40377a3722c5

Here is the call within that page:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=479&v=i248EzJtNlE

« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 01:17:30 PM by WXSHAM » Logged
WA2ISE
Member

Posts: 1294




Ignore
« Reply #88 on: November 30, 2018, 02:15:16 PM »

... Nor do I think that this will ultimately affect any hams who have bought and are using these radios, as there are far too many of them to cite, particularly when one considers the FCC's minuscule enforcement budget.

And how could the FCC tell if a ham is using such a radio?  If that ham is behaving himself, and the radio doesn't splatter or have excessive harmonics on the ham band, the FCC couldn't tell anyway. 









[/quote]
Logged
WXSHAM
Member

Posts: 77




Ignore
« Reply #89 on: November 30, 2018, 05:25:16 PM »

It's even worse than I thought the FCC is saying if your home brew radio could operate outside of amateur bands you need to have your radio tested for type certification. (Though sounds like a catch 22 as once type certified it becomes uncertified if it can operate on ham bands.) So basically making any radios that could illegal with no workaround.


In the first link I posted in this forum thread,  the blogger posted an update with an actual youtube recording of a call with the FCC where the rep actually states that.

So by that ubitx is illegal to use without certification.
Any radio modified from another band to work in an amateur band is apparently also illegal.


I think the arrl really needs to get more involved here to get this clarified.  Most homebrew radios would likely all be illegal without certification by the FCC.

Here is the original link:
https://medium.com/@lucky225/fcc-back-peddles-all-transceivers-capable-of-transmitting-on-frequencies-that-require-40377a3722c5

Here is the call within that page:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=479&v=i248EzJtNlE



It seems FCC does not understand that almost by the very nature of a home brew radio can be operated out of band.

Here is a sort of summary of what the FCC rep states in that call:
Home brew radio’s are only exempt from certification if they can only operate in the amateur radio bands.
If home brew can go beyond amateur bands they must be type certified.
It is illegal to import, sell, manufacture and USE radio’s like the Chinese radio’s that can be used out of band. 
That is in Section 302 of the communications act.
Home brew radio’s are only exempt from certification if they can only operate in the amateur radio bands.
  If they can go beyond amateur bands they must be type certified.
Section 97-101 says amateurs are responsible for being in compliance of “ALL” commission rules (which includes the rules that say anything that can transmit out of band is illegal to operate without being type certified.) Also includes part 2 that deals with certification.
You should use radio’s that can only operate in amateur radio bands.
There is no exemption in the rules for an amateur modifying a radio that can operate in other bands.
Part 95 radio’s modified to work on other bands, would lose their certification
Logged
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!