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Author Topic: HARA Arena  (Read 3668 times)
WB8PFZ
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« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2018, 05:57:42 AM »

The IX center in Cleveland. Mike
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N2SR
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Posts: 1208




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« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2018, 08:04:15 AM »

The IX center in Cleveland. Mike

Great idea!   Let us know when you'll organize everything.   Also let us know the dates. 

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If no one is doing it that way, there is a probably a very good reason.
N9FB
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« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2018, 04:09:04 PM »


Quote from: N9KX
As for reality and Xenia -- i think it is a good practical alternative to anything else that has been proposed so far. 

Quote from: W8JX
In what alternate reality is that? It is like worst possible location around here. It was by far the cheapest though which is driving force for DARA.

What other proposed superior alternatives are you aware of?
Xenia is the only alternative that has proven its worth that i know of --   

1. Xenia is 15 miles from Dayton.  so for the majority of us who are not within 50 miles of Dayton, it is practically the same place geographically.
2. The local ham club there has the skills and manpower to pull the thing off (and have even shown the capacity to carry on despite loud QRM from a certain local curmudgeon)
3. It's getting better every year in Xenia and it is certainly an improvement over the unusable HARA arena.
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N2EY
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Posts: 5096




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« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2018, 05:39:25 AM »

The IX center in Cleveland.

Great idea.....just two problems.

1) It's a 213 mile drive from Dayton to Cleveland. How do we convince the DARA folks who have organized and run Hamvention for decades to do so at a venue that's over 210 miles away? (Xenia is about 16 miles).

2) The price of everything in Cleveland - the venue, hotel rooms, etc. - is higher than in Dayton/Xenia. The cost of transport of DARA folks will be greater too. The end result would be much higher ticket prices and overall costs to attend. What will that due to attendance?


"Nothing is ever difficult for the person who doesn't have to do the work."

73 de Jim, N2EY
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N2SR
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Posts: 1208




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« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2018, 05:50:46 AM »

The IX center in Cleveland.

Great idea.....just two problems.

1) It's a 213 mile drive from Dayton to Cleveland. How do we convince the DARA folks who have organized and run Hamvention for decades to do so at a venue that's over 210 miles away? (Xenia is about 16 miles).

2) The price of everything in Cleveland - the venue, hotel rooms, etc. - is higher than in Dayton/Xenia. The cost of transport of DARA folks will be greater too. The end result would be much higher ticket prices and overall costs to attend. What will that due to attendance?


"Nothing is ever difficult for the person who doesn't have to do the work."

73 de Jim, N2EY

Of course WB8PFZ suggested Cleveland.   His town is 10 miles from Cleveland.  Hence my earlier post of "let us know when you'll organize everything...."   
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N8AUC
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Posts: 646




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« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2018, 07:28:18 AM »

The IX center in Cleveland.

Great idea.....just two problems.

1) It's a 213 mile drive from Dayton to Cleveland. How do we convince the DARA folks who have organized and run Hamvention for decades to do so at a venue that's over 210 miles away? (Xenia is about 16 miles).

2) The price of everything in Cleveland - the venue, hotel rooms, etc. - is higher than in Dayton/Xenia. The cost of transport of DARA folks will be greater too. The end result would be much higher ticket prices and overall costs to attend. What will that due to attendance?


"Nothing is ever difficult for the person who doesn't have to do the work."

73 de Jim, N2EY

Of course WB8PFZ suggested Cleveland.   His town is 10 miles from Cleveland.  Hence my earlier post of "let us know when you'll organize everything...."   

I live about 3 miles from the IX center in Cleveland.
It would be a great facility for hamvention.
It has several million square feet under roof, and a huge amount of on site parking.
They hold the Auto show there, the RV show, and even an indoor amusement park complete with ferris wheel and roller coasters.
But it's only the facility.

The volunteer manpower is in Dayton, and the organizational expertise and experience is in Dayton.
Asking them to drive 3 or 4 hours to come to my backyard simply isn't going to happen. You're not going to recreate that
quickly in Cleveland. Not to say we don't have smart and capable people here, because we do. But we haven't been
putting on Hamvention for the last 50 years. So that "been there done that" level of experience just doesn't exist at the moment.

I went to Xenia last year. It wasn't the same as Hara. Some will say that's a good thing, and I may eventually get there.
But I pretty much knew where to find everything at Hara, and the same vendors usually set up in the same places. So
even though it was kind of a crap hole, it was familiar, and a bit comfortable.

I'm willing to try it again this year and see if I like it better than last year. Maybe Xenia just takes a little more getting used to.

73 de N8AUC
Eric

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N8AUC
Member

Posts: 646




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« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2018, 08:11:58 AM »

The IX center in Cleveland.

Great idea.....just two problems.

1) It's a 213 mile drive from Dayton to Cleveland. How do we convince the DARA folks who have organized and run Hamvention for decades to do so at a venue that's over 210 miles away? (Xenia is about 16 miles).

2) The price of everything in Cleveland - the venue, hotel rooms, etc. - is higher than in Dayton/Xenia. The cost of transport of DARA folks will be greater too. The end result would be much higher ticket prices and overall costs to attend. What will that due to attendance?


"Nothing is ever difficult for the person who doesn't have to do the work."

73 de Jim, N2EY

Actually, the cost of hotel rooms isn't much different than in Cleveland than in Dayton.
We built out a lot of new hotel space to accommodate the RNC in 2016.
As a result, it's kind of competitive at the moment. Unless you want to stay
downtown. That's expensive. But that's a long way from the IX center.

I have no idea what it would cost to rent out the IX Center for Hamvention.
And I wouldn't know a good deal from a bad one when it comes to renting a facility like that.

Probably best to keep it in Dayton. I certainly don't mind the road trip, or the weekend getaway.

73 de N8AUC
Eric
(3 miles from the IX center in Cleveland)
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N2SR
Member

Posts: 1208




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« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2018, 10:07:25 AM »

The IX center in Cleveland.

Great idea.....just two problems.

1) It's a 213 mile drive from Dayton to Cleveland. How do we convince the DARA folks who have organized and run Hamvention for decades to do so at a venue that's over 210 miles away? (Xenia is about 16 miles).

2) The price of everything in Cleveland - the venue, hotel rooms, etc. - is higher than in Dayton/Xenia. The cost of transport of DARA folks will be greater too. The end result would be much higher ticket prices and overall costs to attend. What will that due to attendance?


"Nothing is ever difficult for the person who doesn't have to do the work."

73 de Jim, N2EY

Of course WB8PFZ suggested Cleveland.   His town is 10 miles from Cleveland.  Hence my earlier post of "let us know when you'll organize everything...."   

I live about 3 miles from the IX center in Cleveland.
It would be a great facility for hamvention.
It has several million square feet under roof, and a huge amount of on site parking.
They hold the Auto show there, the RV show, and even an indoor amusement park complete with ferris wheel and roller coasters.
But it's only the facility.

The volunteer manpower is in Dayton, and the organizational expertise and experience is in Dayton.
Asking them to drive 3 or 4 hours to come to my backyard simply isn't going to happen. You're not going to recreate that
quickly in Cleveland. Not to say we don't have smart and capable people here, because we do. But we haven't been
putting on Hamvention for the last 50 years. So that "been there done that" level of experience just doesn't exist at the moment.

I went to Xenia last year. It wasn't the same as Hara. Some will say that's a good thing, and I may eventually get there.
But I pretty much knew where to find everything at Hara, and the same vendors usually set up in the same places. So
even though it was kind of a crap hole, it was familiar, and a bit comfortable.

I'm willing to try it again this year and see if I like it better than last year. Maybe Xenia just takes a little more getting used to.

73 de N8AUC
Eric



Fantastic!   Start organizing it and let us know the dates.   Give all of us ample notice so we can book vacation time, flights, etc. 

Good Luck.  We're all counting on you. 

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If no one is doing it that way, there is a probably a very good reason.
N8AUC
Member

Posts: 646




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« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2018, 10:31:32 AM »

The IX center in Cleveland.

Great idea.....just two problems.

1) It's a 213 mile drive from Dayton to Cleveland. How do we convince the DARA folks who have organized and run Hamvention for decades to do so at a venue that's over 210 miles away? (Xenia is about 16 miles).

2) The price of everything in Cleveland - the venue, hotel rooms, etc. - is higher than in Dayton/Xenia. The cost of transport of DARA folks will be greater too. The end result would be much higher ticket prices and overall costs to attend. What will that due to attendance?


"Nothing is ever difficult for the person who doesn't have to do the work."

73 de Jim, N2EY

Of course WB8PFZ suggested Cleveland.   His town is 10 miles from Cleveland.  Hence my earlier post of "let us know when you'll organize everything...."   

I live about 3 miles from the IX center in Cleveland.
It would be a great facility for hamvention.
It has several million square feet under roof, and a huge amount of on site parking.
They hold the Auto show there, the RV show, and even an indoor amusement park complete with ferris wheel and roller coasters.
But it's only the facility.

The volunteer manpower is in Dayton, and the organizational expertise and experience is in Dayton.
Asking them to drive 3 or 4 hours to come to my backyard simply isn't going to happen. You're not going to recreate that
quickly in Cleveland. Not to say we don't have smart and capable people here, because we do. But we haven't been
putting on Hamvention for the last 50 years. So that "been there done that" level of experience just doesn't exist at the moment.

I went to Xenia last year. It wasn't the same as Hara. Some will say that's a good thing, and I may eventually get there.
But I pretty much knew where to find everything at Hara, and the same vendors usually set up in the same places. So
even though it was kind of a crap hole, it was familiar, and a bit comfortable.

I'm willing to try it again this year and see if I like it better than last year. Maybe Xenia just takes a little more getting used to.

73 de N8AUC
Eric



Fantastic!   Start organizing it and let us know the dates.   Give all of us ample notice so we can book vacation time, flights, etc. 

Good Luck.  We're all counting on you. 



Perhaps you missed the point.
Moving Hamvention to Cleveland isn't going to happen.
Cleveland might have a great facility, but the people who make it happen are in Dayton.

You have to have both to put on an event the scale of Hamvention.

So schedule your vacation time, and book your hotel room and flights.
But make sure you're headed for Dayton/Xenia if you want to attend Hamvention.

73 de N8AUC
Eric

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AF8JC
Member

Posts: 85




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« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2018, 08:35:25 PM »

As any active member of DARA knows, planning and executing Hamvention is a year-round job for the club. I think there are something like 45 chairman/assistant chairman for over 20 committees. These committees have a depth of experience and knowledge that allow them to plan this event with great efficiency. Normally, no one heads up an activity without having served as an underling for prior years. The man-hours that go into pulling off Hamvention is enormous.

After all the planning is done, it takes an army of volunteers and really deep pockets to actually execute the plan. IIRC, there were over 750 volunteers that gave their time and energy to this event. Probably about 2/3 of those volunteers are not regular DARA members. They come from neighboring states, cross-country, and from other countries. My wife and I routinely volunteer and we perform the same tasks from year to year; others perform in a similar fashion. I attend many area hamfests throughout the year, and it is evident which hamfests require lots of prior planning and coordination and which ones don't require much more that reserving the venue and paying for it. No other hamfest I have attended looks like it would require 20% of what goes into Hamvention.

Lastly, the city of Xenia, Greene County, and other neighboring townships have all gone out of their way to support Hamvention. I can't think of any other city that hardly knows when a hamfest is taking place in their community.
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K4PIH
Member

Posts: 11




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« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2018, 06:59:36 AM »

 I went to the last one at Hara, and the first one at Xenia. No comparison. Give Xenia some time (another 3-4) and Hara will only be talked about at senior centers.

IMHO, not to offend the fine folks in  Dayton but it's a hole! Some of the seediest hotels I've come across in years. Food is marginal and everything was over priced trying to squeeze the last $ out of the cheapest people on the planet, hams.

I'm glad I made the pilgrimage to Hara before it became legend.
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N9AOP
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Posts: 1174




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« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2018, 08:53:02 AM »

The marginal food and overpricing will come to Xena also, just give it time. 
Art
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W2MV
Member

Posts: 244




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« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2018, 08:20:52 AM »

I attended the "Ham Radio" event in Friedrichshafen the past two years, and asked a couple of the foreign vendors and clubs who attended both Xenia and Friedrichshafen what there thoughts were re: Xenia vs Friedrichshafen from a vendor perspective.
The answer I got from the 3 or 4 people was almost identical: Xenia was dirty (even after they improved the MUD situation a bit in 2018), the commercial areas lacked a/c, and the "facilities" were unpleasant to put it politely.
This isn't coming from me; it is the response I received from several foreign vendors and clubs.
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K5UJ
Member

Posts: 80




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« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2019, 02:33:59 PM »

One thing I think DARA ought to do is get over the 1980s idea of the Hamvention flea market as sold out, so all space around the buildings must be used for the flea market due to demand, therefore general parking has to be separate (and in the case of Hara, remote).   That may have been true in 1985, which made having reserved spaces necessary, but now, the whole thing is in one place at a county fair ground, which means the flea market can be managed like any other hamfest, i.e. just let regular Joe Blow hams show up, buy tickets, drop their tail gates out in the parking area and sell.   This concept that ALL flea market spaces MUST be reserved, with designated spaces, that there MUST be this one area only for selling with the rest only for general admission parking, is no longer necessary.  If businesses, want reserved spaces and the guarantee of the same spot year after year, that's fine, and they can pay for it, but expecting everyone, especially individual hams who just want to clear out their basements, to have to pay well in advance and commit with no idea what the wx will bring, is now unreasonable. 

Now, a lot of guys I know are staying away because they don't want to gamble hundreds of dollars on motels and spaces, then decide to stay home because the wx forecast is for 3 days of rain.  On the other hand, if the wx forecast looked good the day before, a lot of hams a days drive away might make the trip, if they knew they could show up, get tickets, park wherever they find a parking space and sell, like any other hamfest.
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