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Author Topic: Make Extra test Easier  (Read 6298 times)
NK7Z
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« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2018, 05:28:59 PM »

All this I remember when. Time to move on. Wow i just thought the test should be a tad bit easier.
While you have a right to believe anything you want, everyone else here does as well, and perhaps they don't want to "move on"...
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Dave
Amateur Radio: RFI help, Reviews, Setup information, and more...
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KE6EE
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« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2018, 05:30:00 PM »

It is this exact close minded thinking that if i suffered and struggled everyone should.

You do have a point, that possibly you, and no doubt others, have difficulty learning. Problems reading (dyslexia) or remembering are indeed great barriers to some kinds of accomplishment.

Certainly a specific kind of learning disability deserves sympathy and reasonable accomodation.

I know of a nationally-famous lawyer who is dyslexic who overcame this
learning disability. He may have had difficulty reading but there was nothing faulty with his ability to think and to argue in front of the Supreme Court.

It makes sense to me that the amateur exam process should allow for people with learning difficulties, who are nevertheless able to understand and discuss the relevant ideas, to take exams.

The OP might well make a proposal to the ARRL to allow those who want to take higher level exams verbally rather than on paper be allowed to do so.

I think that would be a very reasonable request and I would enthusiastically support it.

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KB2CRK
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« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2018, 04:13:47 AM »

It is this exact close minded thinking that if i suffered and struggled everyone should.

You do have a point, that possibly you, and no doubt others, have difficulty learning. Problems reading (dyslexia) or remembering are indeed great barriers to some kinds of accomplishment.

Certainly a specific kind of learning disability deserves sympathy and reasonable accomodation.

I know of a nationally-famous lawyer who is dyslexic who overcame this
learning disability. He may have had difficulty reading but there was nothing faulty with his ability to think and to argue in front of the Supreme Court.

It makes sense to me that the amateur exam process should allow for people with learning difficulties, who are nevertheless able to understand and discuss the relevant ideas, to take exams.

The OP might well make a proposal to the ARRL to allow those who want to take higher level exams verbally rather than on paper be allowed to do so.

I think that would be a very reasonable request and I would enthusiastically support it.



Something like that would open up the hobby to many with spectrum disorders. Which spectrum you might ask? The broad sweeping autism spectrum.

Making the theory any easier would not be good. It is supposed to be a challenge for a reason. This is why there are still a tech and general class. Making accomodations for those with disabilities makes good sense.

Whining about close minded people who dont want the test dumbed down anymore wont help your cause KC8KTN.
It just riles up the natives and things will not get better. You can learn to pass the test if you put your mind to it. If you can't memorize the answers from the pool then learn the theory. I did not have an option of memorizing answers when I got my license. There were several sample question pools with questions that were similar to those on the test but not the actual questions and answers. It was easier to learn the theory. It took me 5 years of studying to pass my 5wpm code test and I never could get past the 13wpm. If you cant pass the requirments for the next level make the best of the level you are at and enjoy the hobby.

have a Merry Christmas Chuck

I think you have a very good point Mike and accommodations would be a good way to open it up a little.
A verbal read test makes it much easier for those with aspergers or dyslexia to take the exam. Oops I used aspergers which is now part of the above mentioned spectrum and no longer mentioned on its own even though most with that disability are of above normal intelect. It is the social interactions and staying on task that the issue reveal themselves.
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some people are like slinky's. not really good for anything but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
K7MEM
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« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2018, 04:30:35 AM »

I know of a nationally-famous lawyer who is dyslexic who overcame this learning disability.

Now you know a not-so-famous ham operator that is a dyslexic. Me. Dyslexia is something you are born with, and there is no cure. You just learn to live with it. If you don't, you will never get very far.

A Dyslexic "does not" see things backwards, as is often assumed. I see everything exactly the same as the next guy. If you think about it, everyone sees things backwards. But your mind adjusts for the optics of your eyes. Dyslexics simply perceive things differently. And that's where problems sometimes arise.

For me, Dyslexia has very little to do with reading. Since I was 10 years old, I have read every electronic related book or magazine that I could get my hands on. I was an Engineer most of my life, and had to read reams of specifications. Not a problem. I easily absorb all that information and put it to use. I read and learn just fine.

[rant]Although, on this site, and others, the severe lack of sentence structure often causes a problem reading.{/rant]

So, for myself, I don't consider Dyslexia a learning disability. But it is often perceived that way by the general population. If you learn how to deal with Dyslexia, it is not a disability. And, due to perceiving things differently, it often an asset.
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Martin - K7MEM
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NK7Z
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« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2018, 05:00:36 AM »

[rant]Although, on this site, and others, the severe lack of sentence structure often causes a problem reading.{/rant]
You are being kind at best!  Sometimes, it is next to impossible to derive the actual meaning someone is attempting to convey.
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Dave
Amateur Radio: RFI help, Reviews, Setup information, and more...
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WXSHAM
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« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2018, 06:12:10 AM »

I am hoping the Arrl is going through with what i have read and heard on 80 meters last night on a net that i was apart of to make the Extra test easier. We are not Nasa Astronauts come on . Most hams buy there radios anymore not build them. Just my onion. Everyone please be safe and Enjoy the holidays coming up. 73s Nuff said....

I found a few things made this not that hard:
- Download one of the many test preparation apps on your phone and anytime you have some spare time answer some questions.  Keep going till you are well above the target percentage needed.  That repetition was a combination of memorization but also learning.  (Whatever app you use it should immediately show you when you selected the wrong answer and show you the right one.  It helps you keep your focus on the correct answers to learn.)

This Ham's youtube video series are excellent.  I used his video's for I think general and extra, his explanations of math made things so much easier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyosVb_6Yzs

-Also there was some online practice exams I found that gave me a feel for when I knew enough to pass.


I think many here like the sense of accomplishment by learning and passing the tests.  I think if you had lots of time could prep for almost all of the tests in 2-3 weeks time. Since I was waiting for an exam date for about a month or so for my extra so had plenty of time to use the app and watch the video's.  I really enjoyed learning the details about the radio electronics that are involved.  If you view it from the perspective of learning something really interesting it also makes the test prep easier. (I suspect everyone might not be as excited I guess about the electronics side... but I found it very interesting and exciting to learn about.)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 06:30:27 AM by WXSHAM » Logged
ND6M
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« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2018, 07:04:39 AM »

... edit...A Dyslexic "does not" see things backwards, as is often assumed. I see everything exactly the same as the next guy. If you think about it, everyone sees things backwards. But your mind adjusts for the optics of your eyes....

Just to be "picky", people don't see things backwards. they see things upside down. The Image is inverted as it passes thru the lens.

If you have ever had torn retina surgery it becomes obvious as the gas bubble dissolves and the eye refills with fluid.

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N4MU
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« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2018, 07:09:53 AM »

Okay...my two cents (or should that be $2 now-a-days?). Forget the code/no code thing. I have, with some difficulty, dumped that whole controversy. How about this: For extra, the applicant must pass a written test -AND- have been licensed as a general for at least three years -AND- have verifiable proof of on air operation for at least two years. If he/she hasn't been operating for some time why does he/she need an extra to begin with? Two years of honest on the air work will make the applicant more prepared, hopefully less whining and more deserving.
(I know...it would never happen. The ARRL can't wait 3 years...LOL)
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KE6EE
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« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2018, 07:43:24 AM »

Now you know a not-so-famous ham operator that is a dyslexic.

I'd say you have achieved some fame in our community due to your always well-written and informative posts here.

Not to mention your website with its antenna and inductor information and calculating tools where I have spent many an enjoyable hour designing antennas.

And your explanation of the nature of dyslexia is very interesting and evocative.

I've made a living for many years as a writer (don't ask, but the canned beans you find in he grocery don't write their own labels) and was an English major in college. I can read and write pretty well in more than one language. I often mistake the meaning(s) of what I read, or find multiple meanings in writing that is supposed to be simple and clear.

Thus the experience of dyslexia must be both a challenge and a source of creative insight.

I used dyslexia only as an example of what might be a learning challenge. Those of us who have spent a significant portion of our lives getting various licenses or certifications or obtaining postgraduate degrees have learned how to learn and how to take tests efficiently.

People who are not good at taking tests may not have any sort of disability but may simply not be highly skilled at learning. As with learning anything else, one can learn how to learn more effectively. It just takes some practice. It does offer lots of enjoyment for most people.

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W3TTT
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Posts: 305




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« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2018, 08:22:22 AM »

As many have said, I agree that the license test should be harder for the extra, perhaps eaiser for the general. 
But many don't know that during the 1920s to the 90s, the code was for the army and Navy.  The forces needed radio staff in case of war.  Hams we're a good source.
Today, just the opposite.  Hams are not a good source of recruit s.  Hihi.
I would love to see license attachment s like showing a deeper understanding of the radio theory, code profiency and so on.
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G3RZP
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« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2018, 08:32:31 AM »

W3TTT

Quote
I would love to see license attachment s like showing a deeper understanding of the radio theory, code profiency and so on

Code proficiency doesn't worry me so much, even though when I am on, it's mainly on code. But the understanding of the radio theory is the one reason that helps keep the bands and meet the definition of the radio amateur in the ITU Radio Regulations. I was representing the IARU at an ITU meeting when a delegate from an African country said to me "why do we waste time on amateur radio matters? It's only a hobby for rich white people". That sort of attitude can lead to loss of spectrum access.....
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W6BP
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« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2018, 08:47:16 AM »


Certainly a specific kind of learning disability deserves sympathy and reasonable accomodation.

I know of a nationally-famous lawyer who is dyslexic who overcame this
learning disability. He may have had difficulty reading but there was nothing faulty with his ability to think and to argue in front of the Supreme Court.

It makes sense to me that the amateur exam process should allow for people with learning difficulties, who are nevertheless able to understand and discuss the relevant ideas, to take exams.

The OP might well make a proposal to the ARRL to allow those who want to take higher level exams verbally rather than on paper be allowed to do so.

I think that would be a very reasonable request and I would enthusiastically support it.


No need - VE teams already do this.  To quote the ARRL VE Manual, "No person who requires a special examination procedural accommodation or who requires assistance may be refused service by a VE Team (FCC Rule 97.509)."

I've helped administer exams for people with reading difficulties.  We read the questions and possible answers to the candidate, who then indicated verbally which answer they wanted. I'm sure many other VEs have had similar experiences.
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W3TTT
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« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2018, 09:00:51 AM »

It's only a hobby for rich white people". That sort of attitude can lead to loss of spectrum access.....
agreed.  Also, not true.  A pixie II can be had on eBay for $2.50. And up.  This hobby can be done for pocket change.  Not to mention taking parts from old radios, t v s etc.  And all humans can take part in the hobby.  Regardless of income.  Or social status. 
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KB2FCV
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« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2018, 10:19:45 AM »

I passed it when I was 15.. if I can.. anyone can pass it.
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N8YX
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« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2018, 10:44:56 AM »

Not everyone gets a trophy, nor do they come in first place every time.

Cannot remember the lady's call sign, but an early 80s era QST featured an advertisement for Handi-Hams and showcased Gail...NCS of several HF CW traffic nets. She managed to obtain a license (and I'm thinking it was an Extra; not just a Conditional) by way of sending and receiving the entire test structure on a bug and a vibrating handpiece - due to the fact she was blind and deaf. Mind you, this was when you actually had to know electronics theory to successfully pass the test.

In light of that success, take your whiningtrolling elsewhere and go study harder. Life ain't all about you.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 10:48:06 AM by N8YX » Logged
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