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Author Topic: Make Extra test Easier  (Read 5535 times)
G3RZP
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Posts: 1043




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« Reply #60 on: December 13, 2018, 02:03:14 PM »

A few years ago at Dayton, I met a 9 year old girl with an Extra Class. She had no clue about such matters as IMD, spurious emissions, phase noise, receiver parameters,SWR etc..... which brought home to me just how meaningless the Extra is when the question pool is published and one just needs a good memory to pass.
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KE6EE
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« Reply #61 on: December 13, 2018, 04:37:36 PM »

The significant factor in all this is the need to have a strong political organization like the ARRL to protect the hobby.

More hams, more ARRL members and more political clout.

Without a strong organization, with some financial resources, I think any government support for the hobby would disappear completely, with the ham bands auctioned off to the highest bidders.

Manufacturers of good ham gear ("appliances") would wither away.

Of course it's a trade-off, a compromise. We put up with incompetent, disrespectful and ignorant hams but we also maintain a lively hobby.
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W4KVW
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« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2018, 10:29:19 PM »

The significant factor in all this is the need to have a strong political organization like the ARRL to protect the hobby.

More hams, more ARRL members and more political clout.

Without a strong organization, with some financial resources, I think any government support for the hobby would disappear completely, with the ham bands auctioned off to the highest bidders.

Manufacturers of good ham gear ("appliances") would wither away.

Of course it's a trade-off, a compromise. We put up with incompetent, disrespectful and ignorant hams but we also maintain a lively hobby.

Well you can forget step #2 since the ARRL = Amateur Radio's Real Losers are never going to get their act together since it is obvious just reading the garbage they suggest every year that is is NOT an act. That rules out a Strong Organization completely. I have an strong opinion about anyone who wastes their money on a membership with such a dysfunctional organization. It is pretty obvious that the overwhelming Majority of Hams in the United States understand how dysfunctional they are because the membership numbers reflect the lack of trust in the group. I know there are all kinds of excuses but the Truth is they are a Pathetic excuse for an organization & they have zero power or respect from the Government or anyone else. Some say they are better than nothing but I know many who feel they are basically nothing so why waste time & money on them? They have had more than enough chances to get things together & they keep slipping further & further away from reality in the hobby. All they care about is putting in stupid changes that they hope will increase the numbers of dues paying members & not about the hobby itself. Amateur Radio is so far behind other technology that I don't see the number of Hams growing much if any. My guess is that less than half of the licensed Hams are even active.I know that about 1/3 of our locals are if that. It's obvious the ARRL is a Dead horse & should be put to rest FOREVER & move on. Making any class of license easier is as big of a joke as the ARRL & the FCC. Both organizations bring out laughter when mentioned in the same sentence as being a good thing for Amateur Radio. A toothless Lion like the FCC is pretty much harmless & has zero respect just like the ARRL. Making four or five cases a year is really awesome I guess in their eyes but again,it's a pathetic joke. They should leave the rules as they are & actually try enforcing the ones we already have & if someone wants more band usage then they should get off their lazy butts & study or shut up & stop looking like a total crybaby.  Cheesy Grin Shocked Roll Eyes

Clayton
W4KVW 
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KS2G
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Posts: 1008




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« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2018, 05:43:26 AM »

I don't see the number of Hams growing much if any.

The number of U.S. license holders has been increasing steadily --albeit slowly-- for 20 years or more.
See: http://www.ah0a.org/FCC/Licenses.html


Quote
My guess is that less than half of the licensed Hams are even active.

This has always been the case -- even during what many consider the "golden age" of amateur radio in the 1950's and 1960's. Wink

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N2EY
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Posts: 5030




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« Reply #64 on: December 14, 2018, 07:33:35 AM »

A few years ago at Dayton, I met a 9 year old girl with an Extra Class. She had no clue about such matters as IMD, spurious emissions, phase noise, receiver parameters,SWR etc..... which brought home to me just how meaningless the Extra is when the question pool is published and one just needs a good memory to pass.

But it has been that way for much longer than I've been a ham (51 years).

One BIG difference between the old tests and the new ones is that, in the old days, you needed to know fewer subjects than today. But you needed to know more about those few.

I have old ARRL License Manuals from 1948, the early 1950s, 1962 and 1971. The study guides in them are interesting in what they cover - and in what they do NOT cover.

For example, the 1962 General guide has a few questions on Ohm's Law, a few on resonant circuits, a few on tube-type power supplies, a few on oscillators and transmitters, a few on various spurious-emission-reduction techniques......and a few on other subjects. And those questions are somewhat in-depth.

But in that 1962 General guide there is NOTHING AT ALL on repeaters, satellites, transistors of any kind, ICs, synthesizers, RF exposure safety, digital logic, receivers, antennas, transceivers, computers, SSTV, data modes, and many, many other subjects. The 1962 General didn't have to know ANYTHING about a whole bunch of subjects that are now in the General test. And with a 1962 General, you got US ALL amateur privileges!

The Extra and Advanced study guides in those LMs went into more depth, but not into many more subjects. No questions on receivers, for example, let alone IMD, phase noise, reciprocal mixing, etc. Antennas and RF exposure were not covered.

IOW, back then, you needed to know about a few things in some depth, whereas today, you need to know a little bit about a lot of different things.

The US license exams went all-multiple-choice in the 1960s. By 1968 - 50 years ago - they were ALL multiple choice. Sure, before the VE system, the tests were "secret", but they were all multiple choice for at least 15 years before that.

A passing grade has been 74% since forever, and there has never been a penalty for a wrong answer. FCC didn't and doesn't care whether a person got the right answer to a question by having a comprehensive, in-depth understanding, by rote memorization, or by guessing - all they care is that the person didn't cheat.

73 de Jim, N2EY

« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 07:51:25 AM by N2EY » Logged
N2EY
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Posts: 5030




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« Reply #65 on: December 14, 2018, 07:50:43 AM »

I am hoping the Arrl is going through with what i have read and heard on 80 meters last night on a net that i was apart of to make the Extra test easier.

There is no such effort by the ARRL. None. What you read and heard was dead wrong.

We are not Nasa Astronauts come on .

The Extra has been earned by elementary school students. This was going on since before 2000. In the mid-1990s, an 8 year old in the third grade earned the Extra by passing all 5 written tests and all 3 code tests (the requirements of the time.).

No one needs to be a NASA astronaut, electrical engineer, or anything even close, to earn the Extra. And that has always been the case.

Most hams buy there radios anymore not build them. Just my onion. Everyone please be safe and Enjoy the holidays coming up. 73s Nuff said....

Yes, most hams buy their radios - that's been the case for more than half a century. But that's immaterial because the tests don't even begin to cover what is needed to design even a simple rig.

----

I think there are three BIG issues some hams have with upgrading:

1) Studying for a test is a delayed-gratification thing. One has to do stuff up-front, and only get the reward down the road. And it's easy to put it off, since there's no hard deadline.

I saw this over and over in the days of code testing. I'd talk to many hams on 2 meter FM who were "going to study code and theory and upgrade" - but many couldn't bring themselves to put the microphone down and spend their ham radio time learning code or theory. (These were folks operating their 2 meter rigs from home.) They had hours to spend on the repeaters but no time for studying code or theory.

2) Some folks have gotten out of the habit of learning new stuff. It's not that they can't learn, it's that they're out of practice, and so it takes them longer and more effort. So they make excuses ("we're not all Nasa astronauts!") rather than getting back in practice with learning new stuff.

3) Some folks never really learned the basics back when they earned whatever license they hold, or they've forgotten stuff. With a 74% passing grade, multiple-choice tests and no penalty for a wrong guess, a person can pass the tests and have huge holes in their knowledge. Trouble is, when they go to study for an upgrade, those holes become very evident, and they have to back up and learn or re-learn a lot more than the exact stuff on the test they are studying for.

IMHO

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KE6EE
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Posts: 2559




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« Reply #66 on: December 14, 2018, 11:58:46 AM »

Well you can forget step #2 since the ARRL...That rules out a Strong Organization completely. I have an strong opinion about anyone who wastes their money on a membership with such a dysfunctional organization.

Spoken in the true reactionary form: nothing is any good; government is a waste; all organizations are stupid; democracy is worthless, and so on.

The reality is that politics, nominally democratic (small d) politics are very complicated and those that get involved usually need to be intelligent, ethical and very committed. It's a lot of work.

It's easy to complain, but much much more difficult to understand and try to preserve things you value or to work to improve them.

Without the ARRL, I'm quite sure that ham radio in the U.S. would wither away. There are always vultures circulating ready to exploit weakness and disability.

And at least vultures know how to survive.
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N0YXB
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Posts: 1515




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« Reply #67 on: December 14, 2018, 01:31:26 PM »


Without the ARRL, I'm quite sure that ham radio in the U.S. would wither away. There are always vultures circulating ready to exploit weakness and disability.


Indeed. Because our licenses are issued by the government, it's important to have an organization lobby for our interests. Those with competing interests certainly have lobbyists.
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G3RZP
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Posts: 1043




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« Reply #68 on: December 14, 2018, 01:37:14 PM »

KE6EE

Quote
Without the ARRL, I'm quite sure that ham radio in the U.S. would wither away

In view of (sadly, now reduced) ARRL support to IARU, not only the US. Who would represent US amateur interests at ITU and CITEL?
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KC8KTN
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« Reply #69 on: December 14, 2018, 04:20:31 PM »

Wow Really,
Keeping it Real
Nuff Said.
Everyone please be safe and Enjoy the hobby. 73s.
https://youtu.be/9dffOikvU-I


https://youtu.be/krD4hdGvGHM
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KC8KTN
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« Reply #70 on: December 14, 2018, 11:18:53 PM »

https://youtu.be/zB9_oHiNF88
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W4KVW
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Posts: 282




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« Reply #71 on: December 15, 2018, 10:54:25 AM »

KE6EE

Quote
Without the ARRL, I'm quite sure that ham radio in the U.S. would wither away

In view of (sadly, now reduced) ARRL support to IARU, not only the US. Who would represent US amateur interests at ITU and CITEL?

You don't understand.The ARRL only represents their own interest because it is about the dues they can make not about actually caring about any Amateurs anywhere.They do nothing except promote stupid rule changes that help their own causes.If it were up to them everyone would be an Extra Class as long as they get credit for it so they could make people feel as if they should become an ARRL member because they helped them get something they wanted for little or no effort on their part.Look at the stupid things they have promoted & it speaks for itself.Giving away band space to lazy people does NOT make the hobby better.FREE stuff is NOT the answer.I make sure that when we get new hams in our area to tell them what a waste of time & money the ARRL is & to AVOID anything that relates to them when possible.I don't know of any that have joined in the last 5 or 6 years so I feel as if I have saved them lots of money & kept it out of the pockets of those who promote the giving away of the bands to the lazy undeserving in the hobby who are not needed or wanted in that band space unless they can put some effort into EARNING IT.  Tongue Kiss Roll Eyes

Clayton
W4KVW
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KE6EE
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Posts: 2559




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« Reply #72 on: December 15, 2018, 05:25:21 PM »

Quote from: W4KVW link=topic=123146.msg1105202#msg1105202

You don't understand.

The ARRL only represents their own interest.

They do nothing except promote stupid rule changes that help their own causes.

Help me understand by being specific.

Referring to hams in general as lazy and ARRL efforts as stupid needs some careful definition.

Please give me some guidance as to who the lazy hams are and how you know that they are lazy. Evidence, please.

You could usefully provide a list of all the things YOU have done to help hamming. Besides "helping" hams in saving money by not supporting the ARRL.

Please be specific about what the ARRL has done that strikes you as stupid.

It sounds to me that you are angry. Tell me just what the ARRL has done to make you angry.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 05:27:43 PM by KE6EE » Logged
W4KVW
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Posts: 282




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« Reply #73 on: December 15, 2018, 07:53:23 PM »

Anyone who is not aware of the STUPID proposals the ARRL has pushed for is not very much in contact with their agenda.I see them pushing with changes to the Technician Class as STUPID when all those in the class need is to UPGRADE so they may have more band privileges is like all other classes.The ARRL pushes for such Give It Away STUPIDITY because they think that by doing so they will gain new Paying members from those whom they have helped get something for FREE while putting more money in their pockets.Why else would they make such a STUPID proposal to the FCC? They also support the worthless bill that is suppose to permit those living in an HOA to have antennas which is a huge Bad Joke.It is a TERRIBLE bill & would have made things far worse for those whom it would affect if it had have passed.(I have 9 antennas & am about to have a 2nd tower with more so it does NOT affect me.) It was & is a BAD BILL & it being dumped is what was best for all involved as would dumping the entire ARRL.Those who follow the actions of the ARRL know how worthless they are now & have been for a long time.If they were actually doing much good for the hobby then their membership would not be at 30% or less among Amateur Radio Operators in the United States.The overwhelming majority of Amateurs here know how useless they are & we reject their foolishness & will continue doing so until they fold up their tents and go away forever.The sooner the better & they can only blame themselves yet they will blame those who did not support such STUPIDITY & wasting of time,energy,& money.I for one surely will not miss anything about them.

Clayton
W4KVW
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KB2CRK
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Posts: 152


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« Reply #74 on: December 16, 2018, 04:34:59 AM »

Anyone who is not aware of the STUPID proposals the ARRL has pushed for is not very much in contact with their agenda.I see them pushing with changes to the Technician Class as STUPID when all those in the class need is to UPGRADE so they may have more band privileges is like all other classes.The ARRL pushes for such Give It Away STUPIDITY because they think that by doing so they will gain new Paying members from those whom they have helped get something for FREE while putting more money in their pockets.Why else would they make such a STUPID proposal to the FCC? They also support the worthless bill that is suppose to permit those living in an HOA to have antennas which is a huge Bad Joke.It is a TERRIBLE bill & would have made things far worse for those whom it would affect if it had have passed.(I have 9 antennas & am about to have a 2nd tower with more so it does NOT affect me.) It was & is a BAD BILL & it being dumped is what was best for all involved as would dumping the entire ARRL.Those who follow the actions of the ARRL know how worthless they are now & have been for a long time.If they were actually doing much good for the hobby then their membership would not be at 30% or less among Amateur Radio Operators in the United States.The overwhelming majority of Amateurs here know how useless they are & we reject their foolishness & will continue doing so until they fold up their tents and go away forever.The sooner the better & they can only blame themselves yet they will blame those who did not support such STUPIDITY & wasting of time,energy,& money.I for one surely will not miss anything about them.

Clayton
W4KVW


Can you show us where the ARRL touched you inappropriately?

That is the only reason I can see for the pure hatred you are spewing in their direction.

Wow just wow
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some people are like slinky's. not really good for anything but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
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