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Author Topic: Make Extra test Easier  (Read 7134 times)
KM4AH
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Posts: 961




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« Reply #120 on: January 05, 2019, 01:40:38 PM »

No medical condition. 15 years trying...and only achieving 10...I do not have a good ear for it.

Some people who have trouble with Morse Code may indeed have "medical conditions."

Hearing damage is widespread in our culture because of excessive amplification at musical performances and listening to music at home or performing music at too high volumes.

In addition, many workers of various kinds have spent much of their working lives without or with inadequate hearing protection. People can operate all kinds of noisy gear at home and damage hearing without realizing it.

Hearing damage symptoms can be inabilities to hear certain frequency ranges or even be painful distortions of ordinary moderately-loud sounds.




As I was referring to myself, I repeat no medical conditions. Hearing tested on a regular basis as per OSHA standards due to working in Industry. Started trying to learn morse code at the age of 15. Passed the 5 wpm for my Novice at 20. Gave up after only achieving 10 wpm at the age of 30. I do not know why but I have not been able to get faster than 10 wpm receive. I was not lazy but accepted my limitations. I am glad that you were able to get your advanced but the attitude that anyone that has issues with CW is lazy or not a real ham Sucks. One day I may go and take the Extra exam. To date I have not bothered as the General Privileges are fine with me for the time I spend on the air. 


You are real ham, just half a ham.

It probably took me ten years from the time I started to learn 5 WPM. Started with a 33 1/3 RPM recording about 1970.  Learned a little and gave up. Then in the early eighties I started listening to code tapes off and on for hours every day for weeks and weeks.

I think it would be somewhat like learning rudimentary Mandarin from scratch.

Fact is, for every so and so who actually had some condition there are a hundred that just did not realize how much effort it takes.

Really beside the point now.  All you have to do is memorize the answers to some questions and know absolutely nothing about it.

And, some think that is too much effort.
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KE6EE
Member

Posts: 2814




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« Reply #121 on: January 05, 2019, 01:51:43 PM »

I am glad that you were able to get your advanced but the attitude that anyone that has issues with CW is lazy or not a real ham Sucks. One day I may go and take the Extra exam.

I have a (second-rate, no code) Extra license. But I did have a real General  license, with code test, taken at the local FCC office at age 14. Many decades ago. I was inactive for 50 years, but realized I still knew Morse Code so I got (second-rate) re-examined some 8 years ago. Maybe being
good at Morse Code is all about a certain kind of memory.

I worked for many years in the advertising and graphic design businesses. My business partner, who was a very creative graphic designer, had a poor memory for colors. Although I was much less talented in design, I had, and still have, a very good memory for color. I can look at a color on a wall and go to the paint store and choose a chip that matches (or a close match if there is not an exact one).

We all have different memory capabilities. I can remember phone numbers from decades ago, but not things like pi to thirty numbers beyond the decimal.

Seems to me that the additional bandwidth for Extras is mostly useful at the lower end of SSB segments where there is an additional 200 kHz to 275 kHz (15M) on HF bands.

It would make sense to me to have a Morse Code requirement for a certain class of license with extended privileges at the lower end of the HF CW segments. Of course, that's mere fantasy. No one likes giving up something they've earned, even if the earning amounted to getting 3/4 of the questions right on a multiple choice exam for which all the possible questions and answers are in the public domain.

It still can make sense to study for the Extra exam and take it. If you haven't dealt with calculations of complex impedance, you will have a chance to gain some familiarity. As at least one Extra told me before I began studying, learning the material will NOT make you an EE or an RF engineer, but at least you will be given an introduction to some interesting topics.
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KE6EE
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Posts: 2814




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« Reply #122 on: January 05, 2019, 01:56:38 PM »

I think it would be somewhat like learning rudimentary Mandarin from scratch.

Actually Mandarin is a very easy language to learn. There are very few sounds, no verb conjugations, no gender matching. It's tonal so some aspects are new to English speakers.

Learning to write the simplified ideograms is a challenge for some, but the Latinized writing systems (using our, or the Roman, alphabet) make writing easy enough.

A really difficult (and interesting) language is Finnish. Wiki it for more info, or better still, listen to it by watching a Netflix police procedural filmed in Finland.
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KM4AH
Member

Posts: 961




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« Reply #123 on: January 05, 2019, 02:40:42 PM »

I think it would be somewhat like learning rudimentary Mandarin from scratch.

Actually Mandarin is a very easy language to learn. There are very few sounds, no verb conjugations, no gender matching. It's tonal so some aspects are new to English speakers.

Learning to write the simplified ideograms is a challenge for some, but the Latinized writing systems (using our, or the Roman, alphabet) make writing easy enough.

A really difficult (and interesting) language is Finnish. Wiki it for more info, or better still, listen to it by watching a Netflix police procedural filmed in Finland.


Well, if you think you can learn Mandarin in a certain amount of time and not CW I'll just have to throw a flag on that.
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KB2CRK
Member

Posts: 154


WWW

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« Reply #124 on: January 05, 2019, 03:13:09 PM »

No medical condition. 15 years trying...and only achieving 10...I do not have a good ear for it.

Some people who have trouble with Morse Code may indeed have "medical conditions."

Hearing damage is widespread in our culture because of excessive amplification at musical performances and listening to music at home or performing music at too high volumes.

In addition, many workers of various kinds have spent much of their working lives without or with inadequate hearing protection. People can operate all kinds of noisy gear at home and damage hearing without realizing it.

Hearing damage symptoms can be inabilities to hear certain frequency ranges or even be painful distortions of ordinary moderately-loud sounds.




As I was referring to myself, I repeat no medical conditions. Hearing tested on a regular basis as per OSHA standards due to working in Industry. Started trying to learn morse code at the age of 15. Passed the 5 wpm for my Novice at 20. Gave up after only achieving 10 wpm at the age of 30. I do not know why but I have not been able to get faster than 10 wpm receive. I was not lazy but accepted my limitations. I am glad that you were able to get your advanced but the attitude that anyone that has issues with CW is lazy or not a real ham Sucks. One day I may go and take the Extra exam. To date I have not bothered as the General Privileges are fine with me for the time I spend on the air. 


You are real ham, just half a ham.

It probably took me ten years from the time I started to learn 5 WPM. Started with a 33 1/3 RPM recording about 1970.  Learned a little and gave up. Then in the early eighties I started listening to code tapes off and on for hours every day for weeks and weeks.

I think it would be somewhat like learning rudimentary Mandarin from scratch.

Fact is, for every so and so who actually had some condition there are a hundred that just did not realize how much effort it takes.

Really beside the point now.  All you have to do is memorize the answers to some questions and know absolutely nothing about it.

And, some think that is too much effort.

So now its half a Ham. Wow thanks. I started learning CW with 45 rpm records followed by cassettes and then by working with it on the air and with other hams trying to assist me in getting to 13 wpm. I guess I did not try hard enough. You know what, it does not matter as I am just as much a Ham as you are. Maybe a different class of license but still a ham. I know no code hams that have never had to learn CW but now use it more often than phone. They did not need to learn it but tried it and liked it. I guess those 20 wpm no coders aren't real hams either as they did not need to pass the code test.
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some people are like slinky's. not really good for anything but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
KE6EE
Member

Posts: 2814




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« Reply #125 on: January 05, 2019, 04:02:21 PM »

Well, if you think you can learn Mandarin in a certain amount of time and not CW I'll just have to throw a flag on that.

My guess is that people who find it easy, or at least not a big problem, to learn just about ANYTHING, can no doubt learn enough Mandarin in several months to be able to travel, order in a restaurant, go shopping and so on in Taiwan or Mainland China. Or, if they are somewhat odd, they can turn to learning Morse Code and be reasonably proficient in several months.

Morse Code is NOT a language; learning code is much much more simple and easy than learning a language, especially a tonal language. Morse Code is a CODE, a way of spelling what is essentially English, although much of what passes for words are jargon, not known to the general public.

I would, last, venture that many people, like myself, who could focus reasonably well in public school, who went on to college and to graduate school, learned how to learn pretty well. Most colleges and graduate schools, although not all of them, require a certain level of skill at learning many different kinds of things.

Yes, people do learn how to learn.

One of those skills is learning how to take tests. After six or eight or ten years of college and grad school, one becomes very proficient at taking tests.

Amateur Extra exam, for someone who has spent many years taking tests, no heavy breathing required.

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W9FIB
Member

Posts: 2528




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« Reply #126 on: January 05, 2019, 05:29:49 PM »

The problem is simple. Some old farts just can't accept people following the rules put out by the FCC for testing requirements. And those also happen to not do much to help those trying to learn. Just berate them and call them names. So sad.

It is no wonder so many new people get their ticket and disappear. I am sure many of them wanted to enjoy the new hobby rather then get yelled at by people who don't like them for simply following the rules to join this hobby. And I have been told that by some I met early in their entry to HR and running into them some time after that.

If you don't like the testing the way it is, don't blame those who follow the rules. Petition the FCC to change the rules back. I am willing to bet that will never happen on either. Some just need to have a reason to bi$#h so they can feel good about themselves at the expense of others.
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73, Stan
Wisdom is knowledge you gain after you know it all.
KM4AH
Member

Posts: 961




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« Reply #127 on: January 05, 2019, 06:11:26 PM »

The problem is simple. Some old farts just can't accept people following the rules put out by the FCC for testing requirements. And those also happen to not do much to help those trying to learn. Just berate them and call them names. So sad.

It is no wonder so many new people get their ticket and disappear. I am sure many of them wanted to enjoy the new hobby rather then get yelled at by people who don't like them for simply following the rules to join this hobby. And I have been told that by some I met early in their entry to HR and running into them some time after that.

If you don't like the testing the way it is, don't blame those who follow the rules. Petition the FCC to change the rules back. I am willing to bet that will never happen on either. Some just need to have a reason to bi$#h so they can feel good about themselves at the expense of others.


I don't have a problem with discarding the CW requirement. Most of the people I talk to never learned CW. Although, claiming it is something other than simple lack of will is annoying. I mean you learned how to talk didn't you.

Now you want to make the extra test easier when they give you all the questions and answers.

Really, is the hobby worthless to you ?
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W9FIB
Member

Posts: 2528




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« Reply #128 on: January 06, 2019, 01:50:35 AM »

I don't have a problem with discarding the CW requirement. Most of the people I talk to never learned CW. Although, claiming it is something other than simple lack of will is annoying. I mean you learned how to talk didn't you.

Now you want to make the extra test easier when they give you all the questions and answers.

Really, is the hobby worthless to you ?

If it is annoying, then don't read it. You just can't admit you have a problem with people who have difficulty with CW, which is why it is annoying to you.

Never advocated for any changes. I did suggest that you petition for harder tests if you feel that is what is needed. But I bet your too lazy to do it. Or your just blowin smoke on the subject.

Where did worthless come from? Maybe that's how you feel, and feel the need to run down others to bring them to your level.

Like I said, you feel the need to bi@#h at the expense of others. Goes back to bringing others down to your level. So sad for the hobby...certainly not you.
Logged

73, Stan
Wisdom is knowledge you gain after you know it all.
KB2CRK
Member

Posts: 154


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #129 on: January 06, 2019, 04:57:53 AM »

The problem is simple. Some old farts just can't accept people following the rules put out by the FCC for testing requirements. And those also happen to not do much to help those trying to learn. Just berate them and call them names. So sad.

It is no wonder so many new people get their ticket and disappear. I am sure many of them wanted to enjoy the new hobby rather then get yelled at by people who don't like them for simply following the rules to join this hobby. And I have been told that by some I met early in their entry to HR and running into them some time after that.

If you don't like the testing the way it is, don't blame those who follow the rules. Petition the FCC to change the rules back. I am willing to bet that will never happen on either. Some just need to have a reason to bi$#h so they can feel good about themselves at the expense of others.


I don't have a problem with discarding the CW requirement. Most of the people I talk to never learned CW. Although, claiming it is something other than simple lack of will is annoying. I mean you learned how to talk didn't you.

Now you want to make the extra test easier when they give you all the questions and answers.

Really, is the hobby worthless to you ?

Claiming that not being able to achieve certain levels of CW is a lack of will is an insult to some of us. I can understand that your arrogance prevents you from seeing that. I have from the beginning of this post have advocated for not making the extra test easier.
This hobby does mean something to me. You do have an issue with the code requirement being lifted or you would not be saying things like it is only a lack of will. I did learn CW. I could not get 13 WPM. I have been called half a ham or not a real ham in this thread.
I am sorry I do not add up to a real ham in your opinion,
Logged

some people are like slinky's. not really good for anything but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
KM4AH
Member

Posts: 961




Ignore
« Reply #130 on: January 06, 2019, 06:19:03 AM »

I don't have a problem with discarding the CW requirement. Most of the people I talk to never learned CW. Although, claiming it is something other than simple lack of will is annoying. I mean you learned how to talk didn't you.

Now you want to make the extra test easier when they give you all the questions and answers.

Really, is the hobby worthless to you ?

If it is annoying, then don't read it. You just can't admit you have a problem with people who have difficulty with CW, which is why it is annoying to you.

Never advocated for any changes. I did suggest that you petition for harder tests if you feel that is what is needed. But I bet your too lazy to do it. Or your just blowin smoke on the subject.

Where did worthless come from? Maybe that's how you feel, and feel the need to run down others to bring them to your level.

Like I said, you feel the need to bi@#h at the expense of others. Goes back to bringing others down to your level. So sad for the hobby...certainly not you.


I have never met anybody who did not have difficulty with CW.  Some had the will to do what was necessary to learn it. Some didn't.

Same with everything else in the world.
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KM4AH
Member

Posts: 961




Ignore
« Reply #131 on: January 06, 2019, 06:20:57 AM »

The problem is simple. Some old farts just can't accept people following the rules put out by the FCC for testing requirements. And those also happen to not do much to help those trying to learn. Just berate them and call them names. So sad.

It is no wonder so many new people get their ticket and disappear. I am sure many of them wanted to enjoy the new hobby rather then get yelled at by people who don't like them for simply following the rules to join this hobby. And I have been told that by some I met early in their entry to HR and running into them some time after that.

If you don't like the testing the way it is, don't blame those who follow the rules. Petition the FCC to change the rules back. I am willing to bet that will never happen on either. Some just need to have a reason to bi$#h so they can feel good about themselves at the expense of others.


I don't have a problem with discarding the CW requirement. Most of the people I talk to never learned CW. Although, claiming it is something other than simple lack of will is annoying. I mean you learned how to talk didn't you.

Now you want to make the extra test easier when they give you all the questions and answers.

Really, is the hobby worthless to you ?

Claiming that not being able to achieve certain levels of CW is a lack of will is an insult to some of us. I can understand that your arrogance prevents you from seeing that. I have from the beginning of this post have advocated for not making the extra test easier.
This hobby does mean something to me. You do have an issue with the code requirement being lifted or you would not be saying things like it is only a lack of will. I did learn CW. I could not get 13 WPM. I have been called half a ham or not a real ham in this thread.
I am sorry I do not add up to a real ham in your opinion,


You know perfectly well that you could have learned it if you tried hard enough.

That's the reason you get so aggravated by somebody pointing it out.
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N0YXB
Member

Posts: 1556




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« Reply #132 on: January 06, 2019, 07:55:34 AM »

I have been called half a ham or not a real ham in this thread.
I am sorry I do not add up to a real ham in your opinion,

You're a real ham. Some curmudgeons will never be happy because the hobby is changing with the times, and never again will it be like it was in the 60's and 70's. They don't get to define ham radio for the rest of us, ignore their sad and misguided rants. They're dinosaurs.
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KB2CRK
Member

Posts: 154


WWW

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« Reply #133 on: January 06, 2019, 08:09:42 AM »

I don't have a problem with discarding the CW requirement. Most of the people I talk to never learned CW. Although, claiming it is something other than simple lack of will is annoying. I mean you learned how to talk didn't you.

Now you want to make the extra test easier when they give you all the questions and answers.

Really, is the hobby worthless to you ?

If it is annoying, then don't read it. You just can't admit you have a problem with people who have difficulty with CW, which is why it is annoying to you.

Never advocated for any changes. I did suggest that you petition for harder tests if you feel that is what is needed. But I bet your too lazy to do it. Or your just blowin smoke on the subject.

Where did worthless come from? Maybe that's how you feel, and feel the need to run down others to bring them to your level.

Like I said, you feel the need to bi@#h at the expense of others. Goes back to bringing others down to your level. So sad for the hobby...certainly not you.


I have never met anybody who did not have difficulty with CW.  Some had the will to do what was necessary to learn it. Some didn't.

Same with everything else in the world.

I did learn CW. I could not get to 13 wpm after years of practice and multiple ways of trying to get it. I am aggravated with someone with your attitude that anyone can do anything if they have enough will power. That is a load of Crap. You are exactly what turns people off to radio after first getting their ticket. Everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses. I am sure there are plenty of things that I find easy that you would not have a clue about. But of course I am sure you could figure it out with sheer will power, at least in your own mind.
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some people are like slinky's. not really good for anything but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
KB2CRK
Member

Posts: 154


WWW

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« Reply #134 on: January 06, 2019, 08:17:48 AM »

I have been called half a ham or not a real ham in this thread.
I am sorry I do not add up to a real ham in your opinion,

You're a real ham. Some curmudgeons will never be happy because the hobby is changing with the times, and never again will it be like it was in the 60's and 70's. They don't get to define ham radio for the rest of us, ignore their sad and misguided rants. They're dinosaurs.

Some of these Dinosaurs are in my age group or just a few years older. If I was surrounded by a group like this instead of those helping me to upgrade I probably would have sold my gear back in the 80's. I have had a couple Elmers early on that helped me  with the CW and I did get up to a steady copy at 10 wpm. It took me 5 years to get to 5 wpm for my Novice. after ten years of (yes lack of will power here) I stopped trying. I am sorry that it was a few years later that the code was lowed to 5 wpm for all classes and I was grandfathered into General.
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some people are like slinky's. not really good for anything but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
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