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Author Topic: Icom 9700  (Read 4248 times)
KD7RDZI2
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Posts: 422




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« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2019, 01:39:24 AM »

Peoples still use packet?   Wink
.... I expect Icom just made the decision it wasn't worth it, having simply lifted much of the signal processing logic from their HF radios.

Of course, packet is used for Winlink. No words if this is true... sending emails over radio is possible even with my UV2D Wouxun and a small packet interface PLXTracker.
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VE3WGO
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Posts: 425




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« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2019, 03:57:47 PM »

I noted in my reply in the "ARTICLE: VK7MO-Review of IC-9700 for Weak Signal Digital Modes" in this same forum post that the IC-9700 is actually performing better than spec.  It's just that the spec is loose and nobody noticed it last year when the specs were first published...

73, Ed
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K6JH
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Posts: 508




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« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2019, 01:41:39 AM »

I noted in my reply in the "ARTICLE: VK7MO-Review of IC-9700 for Weak Signal Digital Modes" in this same forum post that the IC-9700 is actually performing better than spec.  It's just that the spec is loose and nobody noticed it last year when the specs were first published...

73, Ed

Yes, for non-critical applications most users can accept 0.5 ppm.

But the fact is that there was a "10MHZ Reference In" jack on the back in publicity photos and the show units on public display, but with no explanation of it's limitations. On other ICOM transceivers that jack allows the radio to be locked to an external reference for more critical applications, like JT modes or 10GHz transverters. So ICOM knows how it should work. Yet on the 9700 that only allows for on demand calibration.

They just about hit another home run like on the 7300, but tripped and only made it to second base.
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73
Jim K6JH
K3GM
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Posts: 2542




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« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2019, 08:14:31 AM »

I’m sure this will be a popular question at Dayton this week.  I know I’m going to ask what they were thinking.
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VE3WGO
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Posts: 425




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« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2019, 06:01:58 PM »

It is interesting that maybe roughly a year and a half ago, when the IC-9700 was first making the rounds at the Japan Hamfair and later last year at Hamvention, and the first photos of the radio were surfacing, the rear pictures did not show a 10 MHz input connector at all.  The space below the RJ-45 LAN connector was empty back then.

It was not until summer of 2018, when the pre-release brochure came out, that the 10 MHz input connector showed up, located below the RJ-45.

The background story must be interesting for that 10 MHz connector's sudden appearance.

73, Ed
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 06:08:03 PM by VE3WGO » Logged
K3GM
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Posts: 2542




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« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2019, 07:53:04 PM »

....the IC-9700 is actually performing better than spec.  It's just that the spec is loose and nobody noticed it last year when the specs were first published.....
But is it?  The advertised frequency stability of 0.5ppm is over a 126° F span. The drifts seen are no doubt over a much narrower temperature span.
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K3GM
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Posts: 2542




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« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2019, 08:26:29 PM »

Hmmm... let's try that again...

But is it?  The advertised frequency stability of 0.5ppm is over a 126° F span. But the drifts seen in the videos are no doubt over a much narrower temperature span.  To me, there isn't enough data to determine if the observed drift may actually  exceed the spec for that span.  I had a sweaty wad of cash in hand hoping to come home from Dayton with an order for one, but not until this problem is addressed and rectified.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 08:45:20 PM by K3GM » Logged
W9IQ
Member

Posts: 3027




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« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2019, 02:57:14 AM »

I think you are misinterpreting the specification. The 0.5 ppm is guaranteed if the radio is kept anywhere within that temperature range. It does not mean the 0.5 ppm occurs at the extremes of the temperature range.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

I never make a mistake. I thought I did once but I was wrong.
AA2UK
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Posts: 901




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« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2019, 05:44:35 AM »

I think there might be some bad assumptions on the freq drift issue. It has yet to be verified that we are dealing with a thermal issue. I'm thinking it might be a voltage regulation issue?
Bill AA2UK
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W4KVW
Member

Posts: 0




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« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2019, 08:31:50 AM »

Hmmm... let's try that again...

But is it?  The advertised frequency stability of 0.5ppm is over a 126° F span. But the drifts seen in the videos are no doubt over a much narrower temperature span.  To me, there isn't enough data to determine if the observed drift may actually  exceed the spec for that span.  I had a sweaty wad of cash in hand hoping to come home from Dayton with an order for one, but not until this problem is addressed and rectified.

LOL,I am guessing that you will NOT be bringing one home because it won't be corrected by then if at all since the specs pretty much show that it drifts pretty badly.Not sure why it would ever be considered an EME Rig or any digital mode which is pretty much what people want them for since few people need a microphone any longer.Better off with a 910H,9100,or other model that is far more stable.Being the Newest Toy does NOT make it the Best Toy.

Clayton
W4KVW
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KF4HR
Member

Posts: 27




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« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2019, 09:03:07 PM »

I received my IC-9700 today from Gigaparts, to replace my aging Yaesu FT-736R.  I managed to get a Dayton discount.  So far I'm very impressed. 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 09:05:08 PM by KF4HR » Logged
G4AON
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Posts: 1357




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« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2019, 11:55:06 AM »

Better off with a 910H,9100,or other model that is far more stable.Being the Newest Toy does NOT make it the Best Toy.

Clayton
W4KVW
Are you guessing or measuring? I’ve just been checking my IC910HX. It is fitted with a genuine Icom CR-293 TCXO.

Measured using a Racal counter and GPS locked standard on 433 MHz. Over a 2 hour period from cold it drifted HF by 130 Hz. Over a 30 second transmission at 25W output it drifted typically between 7 and 9 Hz. To be within the +/- 0.5ppm spec, the frequency should remain within +/- 216 Hz (which it does).

I won’t deny that Icom should have locked the 9700 to a reference input, but don’t suggest the basic stability is worse than an IC910HX.

73 Dave
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K6JH
Member

Posts: 508




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« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2019, 04:07:03 PM »

Better off with a 910H,9100,or other model that is far more stable.Being the Newest Toy does NOT make it the Best Toy.

Clayton
W4KVW
Are you guessing or measuring? I’ve just been checking my IC910HX. It is fitted with a genuine Icom CR-293 TCXO.

Measured using a Racal counter and GPS locked standard on 433 MHz. Over a 2 hour period from cold it drifted HF by 130 Hz. Over a 30 second transmission at 25W output it drifted typically between 7 and 9 Hz. To be within the +/- 0.5ppm spec, the frequency should remain within +/- 216 Hz (which it does).

I won’t deny that Icom should have locked the 9700 to a reference input, but don’t suggest the basic stability is worse than an IC910HX.

73 Dave


VK7MO did testing which indicated the IC-9700 exhibited drift of 35 to 75 Hz during a WSPR transmission, large enough to prevent receive decodes on the other end.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1OSha3iKWcl5q2IiJjXcPIXC_fUd1DYAL

The 7-9Hz during a transmission stability on your IC-910HX w/TCXO looks to be stable enough to work these modes.

So yes, the 9700 stability is worse than your 910, in that it's bad enough to prevent it's use for JT modes.  The 0.5ppm spec doesn't tell the whole story.

If one's usage plans don't include those modes then the 9700 will likely be fine sticking to FM, and perhaps a little annoying but functional for voice SSB or CW.
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73
Jim K6JH
AA2UK
Member

Posts: 901




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« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2019, 07:45:27 AM »

There are variables to the frequency stability. I've been using my 9700 on 2 meter FT8 and MSK144. My 9700 drives a W6PQL BLF188XR SSPA. It only requires 3 watts of drive for 1200 watts output. My fan has yet to turn on. The freq is stable enough for me to work FT8 and MSK144. There are much tighter specs for running WSPR & JT65 than the popular WSJTX modes (FT8 & MSK144) I'm using. So the caveat might be using the rig stand alone at 100 watts (the fan will come on at this power level, causing excessive drift for running WSJTX slow modes. Using it as a low drive transceiver and running WSJTX fast modes seem fine to me.
Bill AA2UK
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VE3WGO
Member

Posts: 425




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« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2019, 08:15:10 AM »

Has it been determined by anyone yet, whether the IC-9700's drift is due to TCXO thermal cycling, or a voltage regulation problem?  (or even some combination of these)

Potential fixes for either of these causes could be very different from each other.

73, Ed
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