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Author Topic: Greyline Performance Flagpole Antennas HF verticals  (Read 865 times)
N1OEY
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Posts: 35




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« on: April 28, 2019, 10:46:19 AM »

I looked through the reviews and was surprised to not find anyone that had one of these. There are many other flagpole reviews but they all require radials. They seem to be well received by the "reviews" on their own website but being a suspicious by nature kind of guy I don't trust that as a good resource.

They don't require radials as most I've looked at here but they do require an outside at the base tuner. If anyone has heard anything pro or con on these I would love to hear your thoughts.

For reference this is the one I was considering:

https://greylineperformance.com/collections/dx-flagpole-antenna/products/bundle-20-dx-flagpole-ldg-rt-600-no-radials-ocf-hf-radio-antenna-all-bands-80-6m

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NK7Z
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2019, 11:29:11 AM »

The antenna appears to be a shortened vertical dipole, using a tuner to enable feeding it.  It will work, not as well as a good 1/4 wave vertical with a decent radial field, but it will work.  I used a vertical dipole for years, and was happy with it.  If it is in fact a vertical dipole, it is not dependant on radials.  20 feet is not long enough to be resonant on 40, so it will probably work best on bands above 40.  These are my general feelings about vertical dipoles, not specific to this brand.  They work, but my 6BTV with 40 radials works far better than my old ground mounted vertical dipole did.  The old ground mounted dipole was almost 40 feet tall.
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Thanks,
Dave
Amateur Radio: RFI help, Reviews, Setup information, and more...
https://www.nk7z.net
NI0C
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Posts: 3197




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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2019, 04:37:40 PM »

Here's one to compare it to: the N6BT Bravo V8: https://nextgenerationantennas.com/v8-bravo-verticle-dipole

About the same size, except has two radial tubes-- also requires a tuner.  I'm skeptical about how well either antenna would perform on 80 meters.

I'm currently using a Bravo 7-KR which works reasonably well on 40, 30, and 20 meters.  The Bravo 7-KR does not require a tuner, as matching is provided by coils that are selected for the band of interest.       
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NI0C
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2019, 08:16:05 AM »

I looked over the Greyline Performance and N6BT websites some more.  Greyline performance offers vertical dipoles of several height: 12', 16', 20' and 28 ft.  They do not offer an online manual (N6BT does for his Bravo V8).  You get an electronic copy of the manual after you place your order.

Remote tuners of varying degrees of power handling offered by LDG and MFJ are suggested for use with both the Greyline Performance and N6BT antennas.  One of my concerns is the reliability of outdoor mounted remote ATU units. The published eHam reviews for these tuning units are mixed. 
 
These vertical dipoles seem to offer the antenna restricted community some good (albeit, expensive) solutions.  Some more work on remote tuning units might be helpful.

73 de Chuck  NI0C
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AC2RY
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Posts: 679




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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2019, 03:02:00 PM »

I looked over the Greyline Performance and N6BT websites some more.  Greyline performance offers vertical dipoles of several height: 12', 16', 20' and 28 ft.  They do not offer an online manual (N6BT does for his Bravo V8).  You get an electronic copy of the manual after you place your order.

Remote tuners of varying degrees of power handling offered by LDG and MFJ are suggested for use with both the Greyline Performance and N6BT antennas.  One of my concerns is the reliability of outdoor mounted remote ATU units. The published eHam reviews for these tuning units are mixed.  
 
These vertical dipoles seem to offer the antenna restricted community some good (albeit, expensive) solutions.  Some more work on remote tuning units might be helpful.

73 de Chuck  NI0C

Looking at the picture on their web site, this antenna seems to be sort of vertical, with limited grounding. Their contact with ground is very limited. It may work to a degree in highly conductive soil. But in any other conditions you will need to add on- or under-ground radials to achieve a decent efficiency.

One thing bothers me - they propose to use choke between transceiver and tuner. This is bad decision. Tuner may not work reliably when subjected to common mode currents. It makes more sense to reliably ground a tuner and put choke between tuner and the antenna.

As to remote tuners - they do work well for many years. I cannot comment about MFJ or LDG, but Icom AH-4 and later Stockcorner JC-4s didn't give me any trouble.

« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 03:04:30 PM by AC2RY » Logged
W9IQ
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Posts: 2907




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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2019, 03:47:43 PM »

I think they are pragmatic with their recommendations given their basic design choices and constraints.

The antenna is an OCF dipole, not a "ground plane" vertical antenna. The feedline runs parallel to one leg of the dipole. No amount of common mode choking on that transmission line will suppress the induced common mode current. Better common mode suppression is obtained by isolating the tuner from a local ground and placing the choking balun on the input to the tuner - as per their recommendation.

With that being said, the length of the transmission line between the antenna and the tuner will effect the tuning of the antenna.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

I never make a mistake. I thought I did once but I was wrong.
AC2RY
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Posts: 679




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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2019, 07:52:52 PM »

I think they are pragmatic with their recommendations given their basic design choices and constraints.

The antenna is an OCF dipole, not a "ground plane" vertical antenna. The feedline runs parallel to one leg of the dipole. No amount of common mode choking on that transmission line will suppress the induced common mode current. Better common mode suppression is obtained by isolating the tuner from a local ground and placing the choking balun on the input to the tuner - as per their recommendation.

With that being said, the length of the transmission line between the antenna and the tuner will effect the tuning of the antenna.

- Glenn W9IQ

If you saw pictures from there site - lower part of "dipole" is only 2 feet long at best above ground. And bottom of that tube is grounded. On all HF bands it won't make any difference from having bottom of upper pole being 3-4 inches, like is done in most ground based verticals.

« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 07:55:28 PM by AC2RY » Logged
N0CML
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Posts: 2




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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2019, 11:43:32 PM »

Some of the pictures on the website are incorrect.  As mentioned above the rf choke goes between the tuner and the transmitter.  One of their pics shows it on the ant feedline between the ant and the tuner.  The antenna itself has a 3' mounting base which goes into the buried pvc pipe.  Then there is a short insulator from which the feedline exits.  Above this is the short side of the OCF, then another insulator from which the feedpoints  emerge.  Above all of this is long side of the OCF.  The antenna and the tuner are not (and cannot) be grounded in anyway.
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AC2RY
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Posts: 679




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« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2019, 01:54:59 PM »

The antenna and the tuner are not (and cannot) be grounded in anyway.

Good luck with making automatic tuner stable under high common mode current conditions.
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W9ZOO
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Posts: 6




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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2019, 08:42:38 PM »

                    LOOK AT THE eHAM BEWARE POST !
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N1OEY
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Posts: 35




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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2019, 09:03:54 AM »

After following up on the various posts I would touch this company with a ten foot pole (pun intended).. My search continues.
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W1ZAH
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Posts: 8




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« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2019, 03:29:33 PM »

As I posted under another thread, my experience with Gteyline Performance was decidedly negative.  I made the order in late March and after non-delivery (read the BEWARE thread) I finally got my refund through the credit card company on May 19th.

I bought a Hustler 6BTV multi band vertical and home-brewed a flagpole around it.  It took me one failed attempt before I raised the antenna successfully and started making contacts with it.  So far I am generally pleased with the antenna and am still thinking of ways to modify the flagpole to make it more stable.

The finished product is a 2 1/2" PVC pipe that is 18' 8" tall (2 - 10' lengths joined with a PVC joint and trimmed to size) so that the 40M trap and 80M whip extend above the pole.  I laid 500' of ground radials and tuned the traps using an antenna analyzer, added a solar powered LED flag light and made some modifications to try and stiffen the PVC.  I live in a windy area near the shore and the pole has quite a bit of flex to it wench it gets windy, especially with a 3' x 5' flag on it.  But the antenna performs as advertised and my neighbors and XYZ are happy.

If anyone is interested I can email the gory details and pictures offline separately.

IMG_9851.jpg
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KF9BD
Member

Posts: 61




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« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2019, 08:03:32 AM »

Interesting reading concerning experience with Greyline Performance.  I purchased a 20 foot flagpole antenna from these folks in April 2019.  The delivery process was slow, but, I did receive the antenna and associated accessories.  I have assembled and tested the antenna with good results.  My purpose for purchasing this antenna was to get an antenna that would perform better than my attic dipole.  I live in an HOA controlled area and have a very small lot.  Therefore, a flagpole antenna that didn't require radials was a workable solution for me and the HOA.

The antenna is certainly a compromise verse a 1/2 wave dipole at 40 feet or a vertical with 30 or 40 radials.  However, for my situation (size of lot and HOA restrictions) this antenna works very well, significantly better than the attic dipole.

I feel the antenna is good value and the performance does allow me to enjoy ham radio much more than with the attic dipole.  I would purchase it again if I needed an outside antenna and had no space for radials or didn't want to go to the effort to put in radials.

I will post a detailed review of the assembly and testing in the "Reviews" section in a couple day, for those that are interested in more detail.

Regards,

Danny
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