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Author Topic: FTdx-101D Tops Sherwood Chart  (Read 6752 times)
W4HIJ
Member

Posts: 410




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« Reply #75 on: May 15, 2019, 06:38:00 AM »

I still like Kenwood! I never really cared much for Icom, I don't know why. I had a couple but sold them both not long after I got them. Yes, Yaesu peed in my cornflakes. I have a very limited radio budget and I took a bath on the FT-991. It's one of the reasons that my main rig is the 250 buck Hobby PCB RS-HFIQ but I do love the little gem. It's not really bashing Jap radios to point how uncomfortable the RX's are to listen to on the sub 2K models. I'm telling you folks, and I know Stan hates Flex, the 1500 RX was a joy to listen to. To this day, I'd probably still buy a new Flex if I had the funds. I wouldn't need a "Maestro" or a knob model either. Ever the outlier, I actually like mouse tuning.
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KX2T
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Posts: 1069




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« Reply #76 on: May 15, 2019, 07:13:47 AM »

Yaesu in the mid nineties really tried to set the bar as far as the receiver section was concerned but soon after Motorola bought them the advent of the FT2000, FT9000 series just made them plummet in that regard, the 200 was nowhere as good as the old MP's and the 9000 was two FT950's in a box with more power and lots of features that was mainly eye candy. Until the 3000/5000 series they were floundering and that basic design was following the K3 and the Orion's, nothing new. This radio is interesting cause it does combine a superhet with a narrow band SDR but I thought the whole basis of SDR is to get away from internal noise from mixers and multiple conversions, that the technology was by the numbers not with ultra low noise components which end up bringing the bill of materials higher and the retail price higher as well. The main reasons why I think the superhet designs do create such a buzz is the blocking numbers, the phase noise on the SDR rigs is very good and even the RM numbers are very good yet the higher end mixers used in the 890 and the 101D seem to produce some higher numbers on one's chart but the bottom line is if you really need these higher numbers be prepared to invest in that higher end price.
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KA4DPO
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Posts: 1317




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« Reply #77 on: May 15, 2019, 08:51:26 AM »

I heard that the Yaesu folks at Xenia are going to bring a Flex 6400M to their booth and show everyone how rinky dink it is by comparing it against the FTDX-101D.  Should be lots of fun. Grin Grin
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K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 3016




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« Reply #78 on: May 15, 2019, 08:59:17 AM »

The main reasons why I think the superhet designs do create such a buzz is the blocking numbers, the phase noise on the SDR rigs is very good and even the RM numbers are very good yet the higher end mixers used in the 890 and the 101D seem to produce some higher numbers on one's chart but the bottom line is if you really need these higher numbers be prepared to invest in that higher end price.

I have never figured out why the high numbers turn on so many hams. Rob Sherwood has and is quite active on many different groups, iogroups and in years past - Yahoo groups. If one reads his actual "opinions" you will find he has been partial to Icom radios thru the years for his own purchases. Right now he owns two 7300s, 7610 and a TS-890S which recently replaced a 990s. He owns no Yaesus or Flexradios to my knowledge. Rob is a pretty avid contester and could have any radio he wants.

He has written countless times that hams should not use the ranking in the Sherwood List to buy a radio. Instead of reading the Sherwood List , hams should read what Sherwood really thinks in the real world. This link is a good place to start and may change some hams thinking about the Holy Grail of Sherwoods List:

 http://www.dj0ip.de/sherwood-forest/sherwood-s-shootouts/

Stan K9IUQ
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AC7CW
Member

Posts: 1347




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« Reply #79 on: May 15, 2019, 10:31:05 AM »

The main reasons why I think the superhet designs do create such a buzz is the blocking numbers, the phase noise on the SDR rigs is very good and even the RM numbers are very good yet the higher end mixers used in the 890 and the 101D seem to produce some higher numbers on one's chart but the bottom line is if you really need these higher numbers be prepared to invest in that higher end price.

I have never figured out why the high numbers turn on so many hams. Rob Sherwood has and is quite active on many different groups, iogroups and in years past - Yahoo groups. If one reads his actual "opinions" you will find he has been partial to Icom radios thru the years for his own purchases. Right now he owns two 7300s, 7610 and a TS-890S which recently replaced a 990s. He owns no Yaesus or Flexradios to my knowledge. Rob is a pretty avid contester and could have any radio he wants.

He has written countless times that hams should not use the ranking in the Sherwood List to buy a radio. Instead of reading the Sherwood List , hams should read what Sherwood really thinks in the real world. This link is a good place to start and may change some hams thinking about the Holy Grail of Sherwoods List:

 http://www.dj0ip.de/sherwood-forest/sherwood-s-shootouts/

Stan K9IUQ

Thanks for that link. I read the shootout between Anan and Icom and it made me realize that keying relay noise [not terribly expensive to get right] is perhaps more important than the position on the list [terribly expensive to get right]!! The Anan could hear some weak signals that the Icom could not but they weren't workable anyhow so... yeah, the list is a good reference but not the only reference.

The mention of keying noise reminded me of when as a teenager I built a keyer; two relays mounted on the outside of a Bud Box... so I complete the thing and am testing it in the middle of the night. it's summertime, windows were open and after awhile I hear my mom who is trying to sleep saying "what's that noise? I'm trying to sleep, turn that stuff off...." I had headphones and didn't realize how much relay noise it was making... always something, just always...
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Novice 1958, 20WPM Extra now... (and get off my lawn)
N3HEE
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Posts: 582


WWW

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« Reply #80 on: May 15, 2019, 10:50:23 AM »

I heard that the Yaesu folks at Xenia are going to bring a Flex 6400M to their booth and show everyone how rinky dink it is by comparing it against the FTDX-101D.  Should be lots of fun. Grin Grin

TROLL !!   Wink

Close your eyes Stan.

Fun indeed !  Watching potential Yahoo customers walk over to the Flex both and buy a radio with an 8 inch 1080P IPS touch screen display capable of 30FPS and external monitor output capable of 1920x1200.  Not to mention displaying 7 Mhz of spectrum at once.  Oh, and a couple more thousand of dollars in savings by not needing external band pass filters, optional roofing filters, optional VC tuning for sub rx, optional remote control box over Ethernet.  Forgot about the open API that allows third party software developers build really cool software and controls without needing to configure COM ports and CAT controls.  Wait there's more.  No need for all of those cables and expensive external switch boxes for SO2R contesting.  Remote control from anywhere on Earth via PC, MAC, iOS, etc.  

As a SO2R contest operator the Flex has saved me thousands and allows me to operate from anywhere.  So it's been fun.  Not to mention third party software applications that really extend the functionality and value of the radio itself.  

I'm not a Flex Lover by any means.  I will tell you how it is.  I own Kenwood, Elecraft and Flex gear.  Flex has issues !  They've bit off way more than they can chew trying to compete and beat others to the market.  They have a hard time delivering software enhancements and bug fixes.  They've made people wait years for hardware.  The version 3 roll out was a disaster.  Version 2 users still waiting on bug fixes after V3 released.  That made some people pretty HOT.
On a positive note their tech support is FIRST RATE !  Near real time responses and resolutions to problems!  Time will tell if they remain a player in the ham radio market.  Until then there is enough right about Flex to keep me interested for the foreseeable future.

I just dont think you can compare the total user experience with Kenwood, Yaesu or Elecraft.  They are just radios.  Flex is an ecosystem !  A radio platform.   And crazy flexible too.  See the diff ?

You can open your eyes again Stan Smiley

I'm out
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Joe
N3HEE
CW Academy Advisor (Level II)
K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 3016




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« Reply #81 on: May 15, 2019, 11:04:38 AM »

Flex has issues !  They've bit off way more than they can chew trying to compete and beat others to the market.  They have a hard time delivering software enhancements and bug fixes.  They've made people wait years for hardware.  The version 3 roll out was a disaster.  Version 2 users still waiting on bug fixes after V3 released.  That made some people pretty HOT.

You can open your eyes again Stan Smiley


Now you did not really think I would close my eyes did you?

I have not owned a Flexradio for sometime and have not kept up with their latest and greatest. From what you described they have not changed one bit since I owned mine.   Same Old Stuff   Cheesy

Flexradio sells Promises AND Frustration and they are good at it.....

Stan K9IUQ
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N8AUC
Member

Posts: 625




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« Reply #82 on: May 15, 2019, 11:05:54 AM »

I still have to chuckle when I think back on the post I saw in the Flex forum when I was first considering buying one.

Yaesu, the people you buy a radio from and six months later they improve it to the "A" model and want to charge you 500 bucks plus shipping for the upgrade. They also use second rate crap finals.

I have to agree with you on Yaesu. They did a bum deal on the first adopters of the FT-991. I guess you bought one and they peed in your cornflakes? This is one reason why I have not jumped on the FTDX-101D bandwagon yet. Yaesu has a history with first adopters and it ain't good..


Yet more evidence to validate my assertion that "You should never buy version one dot uh-oh of anything".

With that said, I've had good luck and good service out of every radio I've ever bought from Yaesu. (I currently own 5 of them!)
But I never, ever buy the early versions of a new model. I don't need to be on the bleeding edge.
There are plenty of people out there with fatter wallets than mine who do want to be on that bleeding edge.
I'm glad they are out there, and more power to them. It's just not for me.

When I buy a radio, since they're rather expensive, I intend to keep it and use it for a long time.
And I hate the "buyers remorse" that results from feeling like you wasted good money on a radio that has stupid problems.

73 de N8AUC
Eric
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 11:12:43 AM by N8AUC » Logged
N6YFM
Member

Posts: 824




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« Reply #83 on: May 15, 2019, 01:04:57 PM »

I heard that the Yaesu folks at Xenia are going to bring a Flex 6400M to their booth and show everyone how rinky dink it is by comparing it against the FTDX-101D.  Should be lots of fun. Grin Grin

Ahh...,    I love the smell of competition in a free market system :-)
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K9IUQ
Member

Posts: 3016




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« Reply #84 on: May 15, 2019, 01:58:57 PM »

I heard that the Yaesu folks at Xenia are going to bring a Flex 6400M to their booth and show everyone how rinky dink it is by comparing it against the FTDX-101D.  Should be lots of fun. Grin Grin

Ahh...,    I love the smell of competition in a free market system :-)

For the newbies in the forum, this is probably an inside joke from KA4DPO. If it really does happen, then payback is a bitch:

A few years ago a Rinky Dinky Company went to Hamvention and put the newly released Icom 7300 on the table next to their beloved SDR. The Rinky Dinky Company Lovers made great fun of the 7300 even bashing it on this forum.

The rest is history. The 7300 went on to being probably the best selling ham radio ever. More 7300s have been sold than the Rinky Dinky radios has sold in 12 years of existence.

Stan K9IUQ
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 02:07:11 PM by K9IUQ » Logged
KA4DPO
Member

Posts: 1317




Ignore
« Reply #85 on: May 15, 2019, 08:26:03 PM »

I heard that the Yaesu folks at Xenia are going to bring a Flex 6400M to their booth and show everyone how rinky dink it is by comparing it against the FTDX-101D.  Should be lots of fun. Grin Grin

TROLL !!   Wink

Close your eyes Stan.

Fun indeed !  Watching potential Yahoo customers walk over to the Flex both and buy a radio with an 8 inch 1080P IPS touch screen display capable of 30FPS and external monitor output capable of 1920x1200.  Not to mention displaying 7 Mhz of spectrum at once.  Oh, and a couple more thousand of dollars in savings by not needing external band pass filters, optional roofing filters, optional VC tuning for sub rx, optional remote control box over Ethernet.  Forgot about the open API that allows third party software developers build really cool software and controls without needing to configure COM ports and CAT controls.  Wait there's more.  No need for all of those cables and expensive external switch boxes for SO2R contesting.  Remote control from anywhere on Earth via PC, MAC, iOS, etc.  

As a SO2R contest operator the Flex has saved me thousands and allows me to operate from anywhere.  So it's been fun.  Not to mention third party software applications that really extend the functionality and value of the radio itself.  

I'm not a Flex Lover by any means.  I will tell you how it is.  I own Kenwood, Elecraft and Flex gear.  Flex has issues !  They've bit off way more than they can chew trying to compete and beat others to the market.  They have a hard time delivering software enhancements and bug fixes.  They've made people wait years for hardware.  The version 3 roll out was a disaster.  Version 2 users still waiting on bug fixes after V3 released.  That made some people pretty HOT.
On a positive note their tech support is FIRST RATE !  Near real time responses and resolutions to problems!  Time will tell if they remain a player in the ham radio market.  Until then there is enough right about Flex to keep me interested for the foreseeable future.

I just dont think you can compare the total user experience with Kenwood, Yaesu or Elecraft.  They are just radios.  Flex is an ecosystem !  A radio platform.   And crazy flexible too.  See the diff ?

You can open your eyes again Stan Smiley

I'm out

Troll???  I guess you thought it was OK when the good folks at Flex brought a newly released IC-7300 to their booth at Dayton and trashed the crap out of it by comparing it with their Flex 6700 show setup.  Yeah, no one was a troll then right???

 Had it not been for that totally crappy, juvenile stunt, I might have actually looked into a Flex, but they totally lost me as a customer when they pulled that nonsense.  Stan remembers that too.
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N3HEE
Member

Posts: 582


WWW

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« Reply #86 on: May 16, 2019, 05:22:59 AM »

Lighten up there Flex Haters.  All is fair in sales and marketing.  Yes eyeCom sold tons of those inferior little radios.  Wazoo and eyeCom will take over the SDR market.  I propose a 25% tariff on them so Flex can survive.  BTW, have you heard what Flex is planning to announce at Hamvention this year ?   Nothing !  And it brings a tear of joy to my eye  Cry
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Joe
N3HEE
CW Academy Advisor (Level II)
K8EZB
Member

Posts: 36




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« Reply #87 on: May 16, 2019, 06:35:42 AM »

This posted May 15 on groups.io with no further explanation:

Rob’s TX IMD results for 100 watts in 20 meters:

3rd order = 33 DBc

5th order = 31.8

7th order = 40.7

9th order = 52.8

Results less favorable on 6 meters and better on 80 meters.

Composite noise =

1 kHz is 130.86 DBc/hz

2 kHz is 131.86

5 kHz is 133.86

10 kHz is 135.06

20 kHz is 136.96


Rick
K8EZB
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N8YX
Member

Posts: 1369




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« Reply #88 on: May 16, 2019, 07:03:42 AM »

I'll dump this in as a prospective future buyer:

Those of you who purchase a -101D, give us some feedback on how the receiver handles band noise (man-made EMI, RFI). As I'm typing this I see an S7 noise level on 40M, most of it being hash from sources external to the house. I'd love for a receiver to be able to reduce or eliminate this to the point where weak signals are readable once again.
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K8EZB
Member

Posts: 36




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« Reply #89 on: May 16, 2019, 09:21:42 AM »

Any info on the availability of the MP version of this radio? GigaParts has posted an estimated MSRP of $6500. I'd expect the street price to be under $5500. Would seem like good value at this price point when compared to some of the higher end radios (7851, etc). I remember paying $3995 for an FT-1000D in 1997 (about $6300 in 2019 dollars). So, if the numbers are about correct, much more radio for about $1000 less.

RIck
K8EZB
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