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Author Topic: Best battery for 818ND...  (Read 716 times)
AJ6MA
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« on: August 25, 2019, 11:36:40 AM »

I don't have the radio yet but just considering my options and an 818ND with an AlexLoop antenna is one of those options I consider.

I would like to camp in my RV/Van in the wilderness like on a cliff looking to ocean or on a mountain top looking etc.

Even though I carry a Honda 1000 generator with me, I don't want to run it 90% of the time so I am looking into battery options to run my radio for at least 4-5 hrs a day for 2 days without re-charging it. So I need 8-10 hr lasting DC power without using my Van's battery to deplete it either.
So obviously I am looking into an external battery option.

Due to my COPD I am not going to hike or even walk more than 20 ft away from my Van during my transmission. So the weight of the battery is no concern for me.
So, is there a down side of me using a rather large capacity Marine/RV style Deep Cycle battery?

Instead of 4-5 smaller capacity battery packs, I rather carry one large capacity external battery that does not need a special charger/balancer etc...

So?Huh?

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73, AJ6MA
Jim
NN4RH
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2019, 12:07:21 PM »

So I need 8-10 hr lasting DC power . . .

Ballpark Estimates:

The FT818, according to the specs, draws 0.45A on receive and 2.4A on transmit HF/2m using max power.

Let's say, just as an excercise, you transmit 25% of the time that you're using the radio. So your average current draw would be about 1A over those 8-10 hours.  Total consumption 10 Amp-Hours.

Since you're not trying to minimize weight; I would get a battery with at least twice that capacity, so that you're not drawing down the voltage low enough to damage the battery.

So ... I would look for a minimum 20 Amp-Hour battery.  

I am kind of a dinosaur about batteries and haven't paid any attention to the newer technologies, so if it were me, I'd probably go to the Batteries Plus store and pick up a SLA battery of 20 amps or more.

If I needed to be picky about weight, I'd go for smaller batteries and adjust my operating accordingly - lower power, lower TX duty cycle, less time on the air, etc..

« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 12:14:24 PM by NN4RH » Logged
AJ6MA
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2019, 01:42:23 PM »

So I need 8-10 hr lasting DC power . . .

Ballpark Estimates:

The FT818, according to the specs, draws 0.45A on receive and 2.4A on transmit HF/2m using max power.

Let's say, just as an excercise, you transmit 25% of the time that you're using the radio. So your average current draw would be about 1A over those 8-10 hours.  Total consumption 10 Amp-Hours.

Since you're not trying to minimize weight; I would get a battery with at least twice that capacity, so that you're not drawing down the voltage low enough to damage the battery.

So ... I would look for a minimum 20 Amp-Hour battery.  

I am kind of a dinosaur about batteries and haven't paid any attention to the newer technologies, so if it were me, I'd probably go to the Batteries Plus store and pick up a SLA battery of 20 amps or more.

If I needed to be picky about weight, I'd go for smaller batteries and adjust my operating accordingly - lower power, lower TX duty cycle, less time on the air, etc..



That makes sense. I was wondering which one of the choices are the best for my intended purpose.  Gel or Deep Cycle or General purpose...Huh


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73, AJ6MA
Jim
NN4RH
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2019, 03:04:08 PM »

Quote
I was wondering which one of the choices are the best for my intended purpose.  Gel or Deep Cycle or General purpose...Huh

In my opinion, it doesn't matter. The current draw is small relative to the capacity, and since it's a staionary application you have the option to size it large enough to begin with so you're unlikely to deep-cycle it, and for this application you're probably not going to rack up hundreds or thousands of charge/discharge cycles.   My guess is that general purpose AGM batteries probably the better value per cost.

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K0UA
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2019, 03:08:43 PM »

In my opinion, you should consider a LiFePo pack like the Bioenno packs

Look at the runtime charts here:
https://www.bioennopower.com/collections/lifepo4-batteries-for-communication-equipment-ham-radio

Even if you chose the 50/50 heavy use chart. for 10+ hours it looks like the BLF 12045 would be plenty.

Consult the radio model chart for suggested batteries then consult the runtime charts and make your choice.

Advantages of the LiFePo pack is MUCH lower weight. smaller size, you can safely use MUCH more of the batteries capacity than a SLA.  The number of charge/recharge cycles is much greater.

Disadvantages is only higher cost.  But that is debatable due to lifetime of battery.  And even at $64, you are looking at a very capable battery that will last much longer than an SLA which has a cheaper initial price, and you won't be lugging around such a brick.
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73  James K0UA
ARRL Missouri Technical Specialist
K0UA
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Posts: 4827




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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2019, 03:15:50 PM »

Note below.  This battery weight 1 lb.. Yeah 1 lousy pound. Think about that vs. the SLA battery you are conptemplating, because you cannot use more than 1/2 of an SLA batteries watt hour capacity.

Price:  $64.99 (battery only); $79.99 (including charger)

The Bioenno Power Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) Battery Model BLF-12045W is a state of the art 12V 4.5Ah battery. Only marginally larger than the BLF-1203W, our smallest model, this unit is ideal for portable electronics applications where your device has low power consumption and requires a battery which like your device is small, light weight and extremely compact but extended run-time is required. The battery has an integrated PCM (protection circuit module) which provides complete internal cell balancing, complete integrated protection along with integrated charge circuitry. Additionally, like all Bioenno Power batteries with multiple connectors, you can discharge or charge through either connector! This unit has available a 110VAC/220 VAC AC-to-DC charger, that provides 2A with a DC Plug. Please note that this battery should be charged using a LiFePO4 compatible charger, and not a charger for SLA batteries.

BLF-12045W User Manual [PDF]

BLF-12045W  Battery Specifications
Voltage: 12V
Capacity: 4.5 Ah
Case Type: PVC Pack
Charge Connector:  DC Barrel Plug
Discharge Connector:  Anderson Powerpole
Maximum Continuous Discharge Current: 9A (Make sure your load consumes less than 9A)
Maximum Peak Pulse Current:  18A (2 sec.)
Max Power Delivered to Load at 12V: 108 Watts (12v x 9A = 108 Watts) 
Dimensions:(L x W x H) 2.9 in. x 2.3 in. x 2.8 in. (76 mm x 57 mm x 71 mm)
Weight: 1.0 lbs. (0.5 kg.)
Includes built-in PCM (protection circuit module) which provides internal cell balancing and management, protection from overcurrent, undervoltage (overdischarge), overvoltage and short circuiting, and has integrated charging circuitry 
Please note you can also use an adapter to convert the output connector from the battery to various outputs including a DC plug.
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73  James K0UA
ARRL Missouri Technical Specialist
K7RBW
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Posts: 525




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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2019, 09:57:39 AM »

I use an auxiliary battery for a laptop like this one https://www.amazon.com/Krisdonia-Portable-TSA-Approved-25000mAh-External/dp/B076GYGR6M/ . Mine’s an older version, but the same idea. They now have an even higher capacity model.

With my battery, the FT-818 and a tablet use about 10% per hour running PSK. Very portable!
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N8AUC
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Posts: 646




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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2019, 09:35:24 PM »

K0UA has sound advice on this. I would encourage anyone to heed what he says.

When I built my battery box a few years back, LiFePO4 was way more expensive than AGM. So I used AGM.
But prices have dropped and the difference today isn't as great. If I had it to do over again, I'd go with the LiFePO4.

In fact, I'm considering building a new battery box with the LiFePO4 cells anyway.
Much lower internal resistance, and you can actually use much more of the stored energy before needing to recharge.
And much, much lighter weight than the AGM. And properly cared for, a LiFePO4 battery will last at least 4 times as
many charge/discharge cycles than AGM. You'll replace your AGMs 3 or 4 times before you reach the end of life with
Lithium Iron Phosphate. So over the long haul, you'll actually spend less by avoiding the slightly less expensive AGM batteries.

If you're doing it today, I firmly believe that LiFePO4 is the way to go.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 09:47:29 PM by N8AUC » Logged
K1QQQ
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Posts: 308




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« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2019, 04:59:14 PM »

On this link which battery is suitable for running a 100 watt rig ? Any ?

https://www.bioennopower.com/collections/lifepo4-batteries-for-communication-equipment-ham-radio

I have been hit with the fact the only way I might be able to operate is portable. I also hate that electrical NOISE NOISE.

100 watt transceiver ?

As of now anything desired even if I just want to listen to a receiver.(minus that NOISE)

I have been educated with a whole bunch of information. Honda Generators. Deep Cycle Marine batteries. Maybe all make sense in the long run.

BUT when you have no familiarity with this type portable operating maybe a slow start to figure out what you really want or need ?

What hit me about the Marine Battery is the weight. 50-60 pounds just for the battery. Even that Honda 2200? weighs 50 pounds. If your just gonna take a walk in the woods or maybe climb a hill or mountain carry this stuff ?

The question I started with ? (battery sizes for 100 watts ?)

Lithium. The fire issue ? Nobody wants something bursting into flames whether it being charged or carried in unknown conditions.
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K0UA
Member

Posts: 4827




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« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2019, 07:54:20 PM »

For the 100 watt rig, depending on how long you want to operate and depending on your type of operation. I would choose the 20 amp hour battery.  But you could "get away with the 15" again depending on your operation. Use the charts on the web site to decide.
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73  James K0UA
ARRL Missouri Technical Specialist
KB1GMX
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Posts: 1826




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« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2019, 09:09:41 AM »

For my FT817  I use a 11ah (3S4P) Lipo with battery management board
for excellent run time and results.  That is small enough to put in a pocket
and weighs in at maybe 2 pounds. ITs enough for more than 8 hours of
hard use and closer to 16 hours of light use.

I have used the bog standard and cheap to boot 12V 7AH (or 8 or 9AH in
same form) and despite the weight they run the radio well as FT817/ND/18
will run down to below the minimum battery voltage just fine.  Typical run
time for 30% TX is about 7 hours.  Three or four of those would run a field
day (24 Hours) easily.

For 100W radios, 30Ah is my minima and I have a AGM (33ah lead) that
does well for a few hours use.  For longer, a pair of them in parallel and
for field day add 90-120W of solar and charge controller to keep them up.
For that service if I go LiFePO4 [likely will when the AGMs finally die]
then something is the 50-60Ah range would do well and nearly cut
the weight in half.

The other benefit is for the cost you get far greater life than AGM or gell
but for a higher cost. 

Bottom line is that the FT817/nd/18 series are easy to power and
Lipo (3S) or LiFePO4 (4S) are good choices for size and weight
and lead is good for price.

Allison
Allison
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W9WQA
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Posts: 380




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« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2019, 06:17:48 PM »

how about 14.8 volt lipo. most radios say 13.8 +/- 10 %.
thats ove 15 v.
i have some for ht use at 1500 ma,1.5 amp. they are small.
havnt priced higher ah.


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W9WQA
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Posts: 380




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« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2019, 06:58:53 PM »

i see 14 v at 3600 ma for $39.99
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AD5X
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Posts: 1626




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« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2019, 03:25:02 AM »

how about 14.8 volt lipo. most radios say 13.8 +/- 10 %.
thats ove 15 v.
i have some for ht use at 1500 ma,1.5 amp. they are small. havnt priced higher ah.

I like LiPo batteries because of their size vs weight vs capacity. But a 4S LiPo (14.8V) has a fully charged voltage of 16.8VDC. The FT-818 spec says 16VDC max.

Phil - AD5X
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W9WQA
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Posts: 380




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« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2019, 08:36:42 AM »

how about 2 diode drops, or just one?
would it last longer and do better with higher volts?
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