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Author Topic: Need Help Identifying Unidentified Not Marked Amp  (Read 3786 times)
K2BEC
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Posts: 1




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« on: January 20, 2005, 03:27:09 PM »

I have an amp. May be worth restoring. Tube type amp looks like 4 driving 6 with the driver section in seperate compartment and tunable. output section also tunable. It has a brushed gold plating on case and chassis. Not tubes in it at all. looks in good shape otherwise. I have posted it in the classified section here at eham with one picture. Just type K2BEC in the search box and the amp will come up when you hit the search button. I can also email more detailed pictures. I can also possibly be talked into selling it. Hope someone knows what it is and where to get documentation.
thanks
Brian
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K0BG
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« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2005, 03:35:06 PM »

Five will get you ten it is an old CB amp. The best place for it is in the trash. Undoubtedly it used sweep tubes and with the price of them these days, it wouldn't be worth any expense even if you could legally use it..

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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K0BG
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« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2005, 03:38:16 PM »

Went and looked at the picture. Yep! It's a CB amp. Trash it!

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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WB2WIK
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Posts: 21837




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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2005, 04:16:24 PM »

I agree. "Palomar" has built "CB" amps for many years, and this is one of them.

The roll of solder shown on top of the amp is worth more than the amplifier, and I'd pay $10 for it (the solder).

Although, all kidding aside, the amp has a pretty nice looking power transformer that might be good for about 300W of power, and could be used in a variety of projects.  I'd take that out and use it for something.

Most sweep tube amps' power supplies delivered about 800-900Vdc at about 400-500 mA for the multi-tube variety such as that shown.

WB2WIK/6
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WB2WIK
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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2005, 04:20:02 PM »

Brian, I just noticed you're in Denville.  I used to live in Mt. Olive, probably 20 or so miles northwest of you and know the area well.

If the Splitrock ARA is still active in the area (I was club president, back in the late 70's-early 80's), you might solicit some "homebrewing" help from one of the experienced hams in the club and see what can be done with the parts from that amp.  Using the same power supply it already has, but changing all the sweep tubes for a single 4X150A (and changing all the RF components, entirely) could make for a cute two meter amplifier that might deliver 200W output or so.  The 4X150A will run that much with only about 900-1000V on its plate.

Good luck!

Steve, WB2WIK/6
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K2BEC
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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2005, 06:17:04 AM »

I don't think its a CB amp it has a 10 thru 40 meter selector switch on it. what do you think?
thanks
Brian
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K2BEC
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« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2005, 06:17:23 AM »

I don't think its a CB amp it has a 10 thru 40 meter selector switch on it. what do you think?
thanks
Brian
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K2BEC
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2005, 06:19:50 AM »

I don't think its a CB amp it has a 10 thru 40 meter selector switch on it. what do you think? You think palomar?? what model number??
thanks
Brian
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WB2WIK
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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2005, 08:07:28 AM »

It doesn't matter what model number, Palomar made hundreds of models and is now out of business.

The bandswitch doesn't mean much.  The key issue is that it's a "low drive" amplifier for the HF bands, those were outlawed many, many years ago.  HF amplifiers must be certificated for sale in the U.S., and a requirement for certification is that the amplifier cannot be driven to full output power by less than 50 Watts of RF excitation: Thus no "low drive" amplifiers can be legally sold in the U.S.

The intention of that ruling was an attempt to eliminate "CB amps" (or amateur amps that might work on CB, by using the 10m or 12m bandswitch position) from the market.

That pretty much failed, due to lack of enforcement.  Although "CB amps" are completely illegal, and so are "amateur radio" amps that can be driven by low power and might work above 22 MHz, nobody was really enforcing the law, so thousands were built and sold, anyway.

The unit you show is most certainly one of those thousands.  They are poorly designed, not linear, easily overdriven, and create problems on the bands from harmonics, distortion and other byproducts of shabby design.  That's why you'll find that most hams who know anything about amplifiers will take one look at that photograph and say to throw it in the nearest trash can.

By the way, amps like the one pictured are sold at my local radio swap meets (flea markets) all the time.  They go for about $25 to $50, so they obviously do have some market value.  I wouldn't use one as-is, but the parts (chassis, meter, transformer, etc) would have value for homebrew projects.

WB2WIK/6
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K2BEC
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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2005, 05:10:19 PM »

Hi there
I think your the club I took my exam at. I allready have 2 meter amp so dont need another one. I just wanted to find out what it was and if it had any value and may be restored.
thanks for the reply
Brian
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K2BEC
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2005, 05:17:01 PM »

Thats interesting about the below 50 watts not legal. I did not know that and see very many of them for sale and in use. What if you disabled the low input in a palomar 350Z, leaving the high 100watt intact. would it then be legal to use or sell? I have never been in a chat board that got so many replies so quickly, thanks
Brian
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N3JBH
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Posts: 2358




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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2005, 03:59:45 PM »

hello brian it dont matter if you disable the low part of the drive or not these amp's where really made for the C.B. market the did silly things like put 10 trough 40 meter knobs on them to make them appear like reall highpower ham amp's it was simply a marketting tool in porducing a appealing amp for the market.

being said amp is a palomar amp would make one beleave it was a commerecialy made amplifier ok so lets look do you see a fcc type accpetance label? ok now we have a anwser correct it is no !!!

now lets look at the tank circut is there any signs of a qauilty tank circut? agian no am i correct agian?

now behonest here brian does it even appear to be a real honest to goodness ham amp use the internet to compare pictures with real amp's agian is the answer no?

i aint trying to flame your butt on here but simply trying to tell you that your the proud owner of a cb style amp. now you could  list this and sell it as a cb amp wich is agianst the law in the US. you could flea market to a cb'er hope you never get caught. and be frowned upon by ham's for doing such a thing.

or you can do what should be done and remove the very few useable parts and take the rest and simply smash it with a sledge hammer till it is so mangled and rendered useless and then give it the proper resting place it so lovingly deserves your local dumpster.  i hope this has helped you in your perstant journy as to  deciede what to do with your amp agin not trying to flame you really but simply help in making your  mind up what to do as other here have told you before and you some how dont get it thanks jeff/n3jbh
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K2BEC
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« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2005, 04:41:55 PM »

Yea ok im trying to scratch a station together since my funds took a big dive. I appreciate your input. Im sure there alot of this style amps out there still in ham shacks and working. They may not be able to afford the good stuff either. so I have decided to part it out.
thanks
Brian
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WA9SVD
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Posts: 2198




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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2005, 12:00:03 PM »

Just a few (?) comments.  The AMP (depending upon vintage) was most likely illegally manufactured and sold as a "CB" or "CB ready" amp, even if it had band-switching; the spectral purity, distortion, and harmonic supression would most likely leave much to be desired, much less to be legal by present day FCC standards.

    The tube complement (most likely late-60's early 70's vintage TV sweep tubes) makes it EXTREMELY uneconomical to "restore" to it's "original" design.


    The performance (other considerations not withstanding) would probably be mediocre at best on the Amateur Bands, even IF it could be made to conform to current FCC spectral purity requirements.  The design and implementation of sufficient filtering and other modifications would probably be a monumental task, both design-wise AND economically.)

    OPTIONS:

1.  Trash heap. but that's an expensive (regardless of original cost) and wasteful alternative.

2.  Use as a "donor" for parts, for a(n) acceptable design by current standards, with power supply, and a few other parts worth saving; perhaps even the original case/chassis can be re-used with necessary modifications.

3.  SELL, as is, only to another licensed Amateur, who intends to do the modification/redesign him/her self.  (NOTE: consult the FCC regulations concerning this option:  there ARE certain restrictions and provisos to consider.)


    The "LOW Power" drive requirement and "certification" for amps due to the FCC rules applied (basically, again check the exact FCC rules) only to commercially manufactured and/or sold amps IN THE U.S.  Equipment sold "for Export ONLY" or NOT marketed within the U.S. were not necessarily limited by the "high power" drive requirement, and while they MAY or may not have been legal in some countries, they were often sold (illegally) in the U.S.  

    FOR PRIVATE USE, (not for retail sale, and again, there are other specifics) an Amateur can design and/or build an amplifier to any legal power level, with as much or AS LITTLE drive level as he/she wishes.  That means you CAN legally build and use a KW+  amp that requires 100 W, 10 W, or 10 mW input power.  You just can't build a number of them and/or try to sell them in the U.S. at the present time.  (Your mileage, kilometers, temperature, blood pressure, etc. or Country restrictions may vary, naturally.)
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N0TONE
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Posts: 173




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« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2005, 09:34:54 PM »

Don't let the fogeys scare you.  The legal implications of selling such an amplifier only apply to commercial enterprises.  If you, personally, purchased the amp for personal use, then decided you no longer wanted it, you can sell it legally, even if its intended usage was illegal.

Another legal escape is that if the amplifier was manufactured prior to the FCC restrictions that were imposed about 1980, then it's legal to resell even if you are a commercial enterprise.

By the way, you are commercial not only if you make a profit, but also if you purchse things regularly for the express purpose, or expectation of resellig them without ever using them personally.  For instance, I do sometimes acquire things at flea markets that I plan to sell on ebay.  In a year's time, this helps defray my flea market expenses, but does not completely cover them, so I never make a reportable profit.  However, the activities themselves, since I do not plan to use the items, make my behavior "commercial."

Hope this clears it up.  Bought it for your own use but decided otherwise?  OK to sell.  Bought it expressly to sell, and it was manufactured after 1980?  Illegal to sell.

AM
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