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Author Topic: Rules for Operating at a Club Station  (Read 9966 times)
NS8Q
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Posts: 144




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« on: November 08, 2011, 01:39:37 PM »

I'm not sure if I can ask this question in this forum, but does anyone know if there is a rule against using your own callsign at a particular club station.  There was some talk about individuals working DX at the club station with the nicer rig and tri-bander and then claiming the contact for themselves.  Maybe there isn't a rule but it's more of an ethical issue.

73
Chris / KC8CAJ
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W8JI
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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2011, 01:49:39 PM »

I'm not sure if I can ask this question in this forum, but does anyone know if there is a rule against using your own callsign at a particular club station.  There was some talk about individuals working DX at the club station with the nicer rig and tri-bander and then claiming the contact for themselves.  Maybe there isn't a rule but it's more of an ethical issue.

73
Chris / KC8CAJ

Chris,

Any hope of common sense ethics or accomplishment is long gone.

There is no enforcable rule against using a different station to work DX with your callsign. I'm not even sure if there is a rule at all.

The very first WAZ on 160 was faked.

The paper means nothing, that's why I never send in for anything. As long as I know I worked them, that's enough for me.

73 Tom




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KG4NEL
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Posts: 541




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« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2011, 02:01:09 PM »

I'm not sure if I can ask this question in this forum, but does anyone know if there is a rule against using your own callsign at a particular club station.  There was some talk about individuals working DX at the club station with the nicer rig and tri-bander and then claiming the contact for themselves.  Maybe there isn't a rule but it's more of an ethical issue.

73
Chris / KC8CAJ

Technically, as long as you're in the same DXCC counter, it can be counted. Whether or not it "cheapens" the value of the award is up to the operator; I know it would for me.
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WB6BYU
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Posts: 17795




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« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2011, 02:09:23 PM »

I believe the FCC rules allow a control operator to use either the station callsign or
their personal callsign.  (But they have to operate within the license restrictions
of BOTH licenses.)

Certain awards may require that contacts be made from the same station location,
or (in some cases) within a certain distance.  But this only applies if you are using
a particular contact to apply for an award.

Lacking any other rules, those set for the club station by the club and/or license
trustee apply.  That will vary from one club station to the next.


Is it unethical?  If they claim to have worked a DX station, that is true - they did.
If they claim to have worked the DX from their home station, and they didn't, then
it certainly is questionable (though I'd be more worried about why they would
bother to claim such a thing in the first place.)   If there was an award or contest
where it mattered and the rules prohibited it, then they can be disqualified for
making a false claim.

But if it is just a matter of working DX under your own callsign, and the club
station permits that, there is nothing wrong with it.
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N4CR
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Posts: 1757




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« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2011, 08:29:22 PM »

I believe the FCC rules allow a control operator to use either the station callsign or
their personal callsign.  (But they have to operate within the license restrictions
of BOTH licenses.)

Not any more. Stations are not licensed. Only operators are licensed. That should answer the OP's question.
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73 de N4CR, Phil

Never believe an atom. They make up everything.
N4CR
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Posts: 1757




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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 03:43:05 AM »

The question was if he was using his own call at the club station, could he claim the contact?

I believe the answer would have to reside in the club rules. Do they allow you to use the station using your own call sign? If so, those contacts are in YOUR log, not the club log.

Some awards may require all calls to be within a specific mile(s) radius to be considered from a single location. So if the club station is outside that circle from your residence QTH, you may have to submit those forms as if you are at a different address. If that is the case, it's like starting over from the new location. Check the rules for the award you are chasing.
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73 de N4CR, Phil

Never believe an atom. They make up everything.
AA4PB
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Posts: 14710




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« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2011, 04:54:40 AM »

According to Part 97.5, the following types of license grants are issued:
Operator/Primary Station
Club Station
Military Recreation
RACES
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Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA
N4CR
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Posts: 1757




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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2011, 06:05:04 AM »

Show me a current valid license that is not assigned to a person. Station licensing stopped long ago. Even club stations have a person on the license. If there is illegal activity that person is responsible.
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73 de N4CR, Phil

Never believe an atom. They make up everything.
AA4PB
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Posts: 14710




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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2011, 06:24:34 AM »

Read Part 97.5

Club station licenses are issued in the name of a Trustee who must designate the control operators. According to 97.5 there are still club station licenses issued.

It doesn't seem to be very clear in the regulations, but I question the legality of someone using their own call sign to identify a club station. It seems to me that a club station should be identified by the call sign issued in the name of the Trustee who is held responsible for its operation jointly with his designated control operator.
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Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA
M6GOM
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Posts: 1050




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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2011, 07:38:48 AM »

I can't believe you are all having this argument. The answer is really simple.

Can you, as AB1CD, go and operate your equipment at an address other than the one on your licence? Yes.
Can you, as AB1CD, go to the station of AB2EF and operate their equipment using your callsign and licence priveliges? Yes.

So if you can go to another station and operate their equipment using your callsign, as long as you comply with your licence conditions, then you can use the clubs station with your own callsign as long as you adhere to the restrictions of your licence if you are a technician etc.

In regards to DXCC awards, as long as you are in the country of the main callsign you are using for the award, the contact counts whether you're /P, /M or at another station.
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NR4C
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Posts: 492




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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2011, 07:55:41 AM »

Remember, "Club" licenses carry NO operating privileges.  Operating privileges are dependant on the Control Operator's license.

...bill  nr4c
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W8JI
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2011, 08:52:12 AM »

I can't believe you are all having this argument. The answer is really simple.

Can you, as AB1CD, go and operate your equipment at an address other than the one on your licence? Yes.
Can you, as AB1CD, go to the station of AB2EF and operate their equipment using your callsign and licence priveliges? Yes.

So if you can go to another station and operate their equipment using your callsign, as long as you comply with your licence conditions, then you can use the clubs station with your own callsign as long as you adhere to the restrictions of your licence if you are a technician etc.

In regards to DXCC awards, as long as you are in the country of the main callsign you are using for the award, the contact counts whether you're /P, /M or at another station.

Yep.

There no longer is much value to DXCC or anything else. It is not against any rule to work someone for credit from any station so long as it is in the same country. This all went to hell in the 80's I believe, when the ARRL eliminated the restrictions and allowed contacts from anywhere in the USA to count no matter what station it is from.

One of the leaders in 160 DXCC has many of his contacts from the west coast, and the rest from the east coast. I have over 300 countries just from my own equipment at my own present location, so what do I care? I compete against me. I don't need a public award that has little value anyway.

73 Tom
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AA4PB
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Posts: 14710




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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2011, 09:38:43 AM »

"Can you, as AB1CD, go to the station of AB2EF and operate their equipment using your callsign and licence priveliges? Yes."

Can you? Part 97 still talks about "station license grants", "station licensee", and "control operator" responsibilities. I don't think its clear that you can operate another person's station (club or otherwise) using you own call sign. Certainly you can operate portable using your own equipment.

Part 97 states: "When the operator license class held by the control operator exceeds that of the station licensee, an indicator consisting of the call sign assigned to the control operator's station must be included after the call sign." It also states that the station cannot be identified by a call sign other than one authorized for use by that station. It makes me wonder if it really is legal to operate another ham's station using your call sign.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 09:40:43 AM by AA4PB » Logged

Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA
K1CJS
Member

Posts: 6251




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« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2011, 09:52:28 AM »

I believe the FCC rules allow a control operator to use either the station callsign or
their personal callsign.  (But they have to operate within the license restrictions
of BOTH licenses.)....

Not quite.  In the US, club stations usually have the trustee of the club station have an extra class license so that station can be used anywhere in the legal bands as long as regulations are adhered to.  Now if you're there alone and only have a tech license, you can only use that station to the band limits of YOUR license--not the club trustee licence.  (Ex: WA1AAA, or WA1AAA at the KA1KKK station)

If, however, there is another ham there at the club with you and they have a higher class license, (that includes the trustee of the club station)  you can operate using their privileges--but must sign with both of your license callsigns to be legal operating where you can't operate alone, and if the club station trustee requires it, you must use the club call as well!  (Ex: WA1AAA with KB1CD, or WA1AAA with KB1CD at the KA1KKK station)

Now, if the club trustee has only a General or Advanced class license and you have an extra, you MUST sign with your license call if operating in the extra class band areas.  Whether or not you use the club callsign also is up to the club trustee.  (Ex: simply WA1AAA, or WA1AAA operating the KA1KKK club station)

Whether or not you can work a club station using your license alone is a question for the station trustee.  He/she may or may not permit operating that way, and if you go against their wishes, even though it isn't a regulation violation as long as you stay within your privileges, the club may sanction you and take away your right to operate the club station.
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K1CJS
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Posts: 6251




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« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2011, 09:54:47 AM »

Remember, "Club" licenses carry NO operating privileges.  Operating privileges are dependant on the Control Operator's license.

...bill  nr4c

Bill, that used to be the fact, but now the fact is that the club station license carries the privileges of the club station trustee.  That is why he is called the trustee--because he takes responsibility for the operation of that station.
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