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Author Topic: RST confusion..inexperienced needs Elmer...  (Read 7024 times)
K5LXP
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« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2013, 01:53:46 PM »

Or record it and post the file somewhere so others can hear it for themselves.  No interpretation or scavenger hunting around on your part for a sound bite that may or may not match what you're hearing.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM

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KE3WD
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« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2013, 01:58:48 PM »

Get a can of Deoxit and clean and lube each switch and control, one at a time, being sure to move that control its full travel at least ten times while its contacts are still wetted with the good stuff. 

Do that for every switch and control BUT any main AC switch, leave that dry. 


73
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K0OD
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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2013, 02:21:29 PM »

In the days of spark, tone was a huge deal. The purer the tone, the farther a signal would carry. Good tone meant you had a sophisticated and costly modern station. Bad tone meant you might be a kid using a Model T spark coil. It was a status thing. QSL cards from the 1920s focused a lot of attention on tone. (that was before the RST system came into use)

Once in a blue moon I'll give a 7 or 8. That should be enough to alert any ham that a problem exists and should be remedied.
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W1VT
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« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2013, 02:43:40 PM »

I've never seen such a collection of audio files--and I've seen more technical resources than most hams.

The best way to fix a problem like that is to get a general coverage receiver to listen to the various oscillators and signals to find the bad one(s).  A receiver is typically so sensitive that no connection is required.  While it is certainly possible to get fooled--such a loud signals can sound distorted when they are fine, this should allow you to focus in on the problem.

Zack W1VT
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NO2A
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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2013, 03:18:45 PM »

Chirp,though less common today can exist in any modern rig. All it takes is a little or a lot,of rf getting into your rig or power supply. In the old days chirp came from an unstable vfo,or power supply. Chirp is by far the most common form of bad tone. Bad retification is mostly unheard of today,though certainly possible if your power supply filter caps are that bad. Chirp sounds like "Blah bit blah bit,blah blah bi blah." Bad retification sounds even more garbled,very harsh sounding,like listening to an am radio while driving under high voltage lines.(sort of) Normal frequency drift is not considered a tone problem. Some old rigs had all three problems.
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AC2EU
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« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2013, 03:33:50 PM »

OK, I see the problem here is mis-communication.  My rig on transmit is producing a strange tone -- not good at all -- and I have no way to accurately describe it.  The RST list looks like an excellent way to describe the bad tone and it may help in the troubleshooting process. The way that I hear that tone is "watery".  The problem extends into voice mode which I would describe as "thin".  I'm fairly sure that if the CW problem is fixed that the voice problem will also be fixed. 
Anyway, I seem to be stuck with email troubleshooting - no hams in my local area have been able to give any guidance - or box the rig up and send it off for *expensive, I'll bet* repairs and still without a decent description of the problem. 
Therefore, I am looking for audio files of some kind that demonstrate the various faulty tones with the fault description so that I can pass that on to whomever is attempting to help me out.
See the problem?  "Watery" and "thin" are not good descriptions of a fault in a radio. 
Just 5Sing the rig and going with a new, solid state outfit is not an option; it's fix the 530 or quit radio. 
So, I'm asking for examples of the bad tones in an audio file along with the description of each fault ...


the tone you hear from the radio is a 'local"  side tone and is NOT transmitted. Do you hear the bad tone or is it the receiving station that hears it?
These are two completely different scenarios!
I don't think there is one specific fault for a particular issue. You can get in the right ballpark with some specific diagnostics, though...
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AA4PB
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« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2013, 03:40:14 PM »

Actually, "watery" is a fairly good description. It is often a result instability in a phase locked loop causing frequency modulation of the carrier. It often affects both receive and transmit on a transceiver. I had a similar issue with an Icom transceiver that turned out to be an aging problem with plastic trimmer capacitors in a PLL circuit. Icom had a tech report on it and offered to sell better quality ceramic trimmers as replacements.
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Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA
KB4QAA
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« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2013, 04:17:45 PM »

http://www.antiquewireless.org/1929transmitters.htm

Here is a link to a page with some off-air recordings of early type transmitters. 

You can hear examples that range from a T1 broad AC, T3 rough with some filtering, to an unstable 'Yoopy' oscillator, and one that starts raspy, maybe T5, an becomes more stable as the QSO goes on.

This subject deserves some attention to developing a video of examples for training. 

Someday, oh well.  Smiley   bill
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KC8HPG
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« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2013, 04:28:18 PM »



the tone you hear from the radio is a 'local"  side tone and is NOT transmitted. Do you hear the bad tone or is it the receiving station that hears it?
These are two completely different scenarios!
I don't think there is one specific fault for a particular issue. You can get in the right ballpark with some specific diagnostics, though...
I hear the faulty tone in my SW receiver when I transmit @ lowest power into a Cantenna  -- known 50.3 ohm non-inductive load -- with local sidetone monitor OFF so the bad tone is being xmitted. I am not in possession of a method to record from that receiver yet.  I'll fix that at Dayton this weekend.  Anyway KB4QAA just posted a link, http://www.antiquewireless.org/1929transmitters.htm, with some very close if not spot-on examples. 
If you care to take a gander, either of the two files at the bottom of the page could be what I hear and
this one, the first file on the page, 

1.9M Wave File. Eddy Swynar's Rollins Rocket "yodelling" a plaintive CQ call to AWA members on 40-Meters recorded during the 1929 QSO Party by Dan Caesar, NI9Y.,   is so close that it almost hurts to hear it

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KE3WD
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« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2013, 06:12:42 PM »

Clean and lube the controls on your old rig and try with dummy load and local rcvr again. 

Really. 

I mean that.

Cleaning of all controls should be done before anything else and often clears up many problems such as you describe.  They are manmade, which means they will NOT heal all by themselves.  They get dirty.  The contacts can get very dry, can get slightly corroded.  Some of the signals or voltages they have to carry are so small that dirty contacts can make a HUGE difference in performance.


73
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AC2EU
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« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2013, 09:44:50 PM »



the tone you hear from the radio is a 'local"  side tone and is NOT transmitted. Do you hear the bad tone or is it the receiving station that hears it?
These are two completely different scenarios!
I don't think there is one specific fault for a particular issue. You can get in the right ballpark with some specific diagnostics, though...
I hear the faulty tone in my SW receiver when I transmit @ lowest power into a Cantenna  -- known 50.3 ohm non-inductive load -- with local sidetone monitor OFF so the bad tone is being xmitted. I am not in possession of a method to record from that receiver yet.  I'll fix that at Dayton this weekend.  Anyway KB4QAA just posted a link, http://www.antiquewireless.org/1929transmitters.htm, with some very close if not spot-on examples. 
If you care to take a gander, either of the two files at the bottom of the page could be what I hear and
this one, the first file on the page, 

1.9M Wave File. Eddy Swynar's Rollins Rocket "yodelling" a plaintive CQ call to AWA members on 40-Meters recorded during the 1929 QSO Party by Dan Caesar, NI9Y.,   is so close that it almost hurts to hear it



VFO instability...
Try cleaning the switches and controls as suggested by others. If that doesn't help, then some trouble shooting will be needed. It could be dry caps in the V regulator circuit on an oldie like that.
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