Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

donate to eham
   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 [4] 5 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: When did Elmer die?  (Read 172215 times)
K4ISR
Member

Posts: 222


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2015, 11:42:17 AM »

I see it as a combination of factors.
There are still a few helpful Elmers around, but it has become increasingly rare to find one, luckily there are a few in my area. The ones still working for a living typically do not have much time to stop by to help, the older hams that are retired typically stick with their local group of like minded cranky old elites (COEs as described by a local Elmer), WB2RJR is a perfect example of this. "Do it yourself and don't bug me if you have questions about it" type of mentality, expecting us to learn everything ourselves and trying to ask them a question they know the answer to somehow makes us less of a ham, or makes us lids. Fortunately there are a few real Elmers left out there (like in my area KI5FR, K4NDJ, and W4RH) and they tend to dislike those "COE"s as well.

At the same time, so many of these younger hams (my age and younger, aka mid 30s and younger), are part of this "NOW" generation where they want to buy a radio and get on the air as soon as they turn the power on. Anything more and they falter, they fail to understand that they need to enter the frequency, offset, CTCSS/tone, power level and so on. When it comes to the more involved stations they just buy something, put it up and expect it to work, yet when it doesn't work (or not well) they become frustrated and have very little patience. They are part of this generation of set it and forget it, preprogrammed, toss it when it breaks instead of fixing it, let me use it "now" generation. Trying to get them to replace that $20 radio shack RG-58 because they're not reaching the UHF repeater 20 miles away is like pulling cats teeth. Trying to get them to fix a diode in that TS-120S their uncle gave them is like trying to teach them 30 different languages at once. This "NOW" generation has no patience and little capability to think for themselves, which makes for a very aggravating time for people my age and older.
I am part of the last generation to actually have some patience and understand that troubleshooting is needed with almost everything. Add in that not everything can just be taken to the local mechanic to be fixed for cheap seems to go above their heads. Radio Shack no longer repairs radios, and trying to find any radio repair shop within 200 miles is nearly impossible unless you live in a bigger city. So we have to be self sufficient most of the time and learn soldering and some basic electronic theory and practices, which is way beyond the capability or patience level of this "NOW" generation.

DISCLAIMER: I am not saying all old people are COEs, nor are all young people selfish "NOW" types, but that is the general consensus within the given age groups. And here I am stuck in the middle of it all.  Grin
Logged

de K4ISR
W9GB
Member

Posts: 3343




Ignore
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2015, 11:40:08 AM »

You have seen in the news the increase of Airline crashes/disasters, especially in the emerging Eastern Asian markets.  Airbus earlier this week announced changes to the pilot training (simulator and classroom) for their airplanes.
--
So what goes into this new training philosophy?
Airbus says there are three targets — making the training more effective, efficient and ‘fun’.

This last aim may seem out-of-place for some but research over past decades has shown how retention of knowledge is improved the more interactive it becomes. In fact, the highest levels of retention (90%) stem from teaching information to someone else. While reading hovers at 10%, and audio-visual learning at 20%, discussion and practice methods give 50% and 75% retention levels respectively. In this instructors are set to move from a one-way briefings or lectures to discussion and ‘facilitating discovery’.
Airbus’s new training philosophy thus takes elements from how we learn to operate smartphones/or tablet computers today — not by reading thick manuals, but by interaction and trying it out.
See more at: http://aerosociety.com/News/Insight-Blog/2851/ACEs-high-A350XWB-pilot-training#sthash.ltFgx9Zd.dpuf

====
This actually is a return to experiental or "hands-on" learning, that was eliminated from many educational methods, beginning in the 1980s.  By the 1990s, electronics hardware labs were closed/sold-off to facilitate more classrooms for software/programming coursework.
The sad part, many of those have no idea how the underlying hardware (that they are controlling) actually works.
Logged
KC2QYM
Member

Posts: 958




Ignore
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2015, 07:24:50 AM »

A guy studies for his ticket and becomes a general.  Buys a used transceiver, power supply, builds a dipole and strings it up. Has no previous operating time with another ham so his skills on phone are limited.  First thing I would do is listen for a while to observe how hams are communicating.  I would find some unused frequency and tune up and test my output.  Maybe he has RF coming down to his rig because of mismatches, etc.  So what does he do.  Well let's say he makes contact with some station and that station hears the RF.  Most of the time, the other station will advise the new guy what steps he might take to fix the problem.  Also, since we are in the internet age, most if not all of the information is available.  In previous decades that information was only avaiable in a handful of books and via 'elmers'.  Therefore, today, there's no excuse why a new ham can't emerge in a relatively capable manner from the start.  As he operates on the air others will advise him for improvements; a half intelligent guy will figure things out relatively quick.  Throw the myriad personalities into the mix and you have the state of humanity juxtaposed into the hobby which is what we witness all the time on the air and on these threads.  I wouldn't worry too much if the original 'elmer' has faded away.  Guys will figure things out or they won't.  If they can't then someone will help them..normally.  So if you want to call him 'elmer' that's your choice.
Logged
KI4OYV
Member

Posts: 38




Ignore
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2015, 06:39:20 AM »

I started a new topic on ELMER forum about this also. Here's my 2c worth from there:

Hello Elmer's,
   
When did Elmer die?  I've asked this question to myself a few times in the 10 years I've been a Ham. Still haven't gotten a good answer. I know NOT ALL Elmer's are like this, but I've found that this is getting to be more the norm then not. My main concern is that when asking a question, you usually get a snide remark or no answer.  I'm not mad at any of these people, just disappointed at those who ignore others who are seeking advice.  Don't comment about so & so's rig or lack of training. Ask them about it and make suggestion. Help them get Their Tech, Gen or Extra. You all needed help at one time or another. Share the experience and advance OUR hobby. Remember the "Corrective criticism is better then nasty/snide remarks."
73
RIP Elmer! You Are Missed!

Are Elmers a dying breed? Maybe, Maybe not
Logged
NW0LF
Member

Posts: 21




Ignore
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2015, 12:05:38 PM »

I may not be the hobby for the last 200 years and send code at 50 WPM with my toes while holding a conversation with you on a completely different topic, but I am an Elmer.  I don't give unsolicited advice, don't butt my nose in anyone's business and do my best to answer every question asked of me and if I don't know the answer, I will cheerfully say so and hep find the answer.  I have Elmered several people over my 16 years as a ham and have helped many, many more just as I was helped when I first got into radio.  The COEs (I like that term Michael) all seem to forget that they started out knowing nothing, probably asked questions and had gotten help along the way- no one comes out of the womb.  I haven't forgotten and I feel that I would be doing my Elmers a disservice if I didn't help others. We decide our path in life every day.  I can choose to be like RJR-or I can choose to be someone I would want to be around.  I choose the latter.  Personally, I find learning in a group environment fun.  If you want help, I'm here.  If you have questions, I'm here.  If you want opinions, ask someone else.  I don't give opinions, I try to give useful information to help you make your own informed decisions.  Ask 10 hams in a room for their opinion on a topic and you will get 30 different opinions!  Marco, if you can't get answers to questions from people around you, email me- NW0LF@dawoolfe.com.  I will help if I can.  Elmers may be a dying breed but there are some of us still around.

"Wolfie", NW0LF

IT is not the class of license the ham holds but the class of the ham that holds the license.
Logged
SOFAR
Member

Posts: 1381




Ignore
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2015, 03:36:34 PM »

My experience: Elmers are still out there, its just not as formal a relationship as it used to be. .... Can't speak for clubs or repeaters, don't use the repeaters so never joined a club. .... The person I consider an informal Elmer, I met on .52, and for 70 years old he still has a pleasant disposition.
Logged
KB4QAA
Member

Posts: 3325




Ignore
« Reply #51 on: May 25, 2015, 10:30:32 AM »

My experience: Elmers are still out there, its just not as formal a relationship as it used to be. ....
There NEVER WAS a formal relationship!

That's the problem today.  There is a certainly group of new guys who show up on the web and expect to be assigned an Elmer who is going to hold their hand and spoon feed them information.  Be at their beck and call to solve all their problems, while they fail to make even minimal efforts or investments.  

They refuse to buy manuals and handbooks.   Some show up at club meetings and whine about having to spend $25 on a study guide.  They expect the club to subsidize their hobby!

"Make friends, not Elmers!".
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 10:35:08 AM by KB4QAA » Logged
K7MEM
Member

Posts: 629


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #52 on: May 25, 2015, 11:29:01 AM »

My experience: Elmers are still out there, its just not as formal a relationship as it used to be. ....
There NEVER WAS a formal relationship!

I pretty much agree with QAA. At least for me, there never was a formal relationship with an Elmer. When I got my Novice license (1965) there were some people that provided some help, and then gave me a push and I was on my own. Some of them I met on 2 Meters, in the AM days. Some of them gave me equipment that they no longer used. No instruction came with the equipment, but I didn't need any. I got a general coverage receiver from one ham and a 2 Meter converter from another. It only took me a week to figure out how to mix that with my Heathkit Twoer.

But sometimes it can work into a personal relationship. I have a friend that was a code listener for the USAF and was stationed in the Azores. He had his Novice license but never got on the air. Eventually he let it expire and forgot most of the code. He asked me to help him get his license back. At the time I only had a Novice license. I never bothered to upgrade because that was all I needed. So I decided that I would upgrade, and at the same time, he was getting his license back. Over a 6 month period my friend went from Novice to Tech to General. And that included the 5 and 13 WPM Morse tests. I went a little further and wound up with an Extra. But now we are good friends. We like to go to ham fests together. He considers me his Elmer (Actually he considered me his Oscar until I told him that a Oscar is a satellite).
Logged

Martin - K7MEM
http://www.k7mem.com
KA4LFP
Member

Posts: 273




Ignore
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2015, 05:09:50 PM »

In my experience (since the late 1950's) a club field day is often not a good place for a new ham (or new to CW) to be operating the radio. Too many people are all out to obtain a winning score for the club and they are easily upset if they think someone is not keeping up the QSO rate. I found field day much more enjoyable when a couple of friends and I used to set up a tent, generator, and a single radio. Zero pressure because none of us cared much about the score or QSO rate - we were just there to have fun. Took plenty of breaks. Shut down the station for meals and to get a decent night's sleep.


BINGO!

I haven't been to a Field Day in several years -- but when I go this year, I hope this is where our local club operates -- in the realm of getting multiple rigs up, multiple power sources, antennas, etc... and not the "how many QSOs can we make how fast"...

Logged
KA4LFP
Member

Posts: 273




Ignore
« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2015, 05:20:24 PM »

I volunteered to take over the High speed CW position for field day. Would volunteer my computer, transceiver, antenna etc. to get all up and working. I was then advised that they absolutely didn't need my help in any way. Whoa! I just volunteered, I'm not taking over the club. The senior powers didn't want me to be involved, very simple. OK, I just never went back. The really sad part. Every time they see me at a local shopping center they say hi and ask why I don't come to club meetings. They just don't get it.

You should tell them that when they ask -- Really....
A lot of the older folks just don't get the fact that others in the club (or themselves) have done something insulting and arrogant and earned your disinterest...

Telling them that is the first step towards getting them to fix it.

If they don't listen after they've been told how they insulted you, then you walk away.

Logged
AC2EU
Member

Posts: 1427


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2015, 09:47:54 AM »

I volunteered to take over the High speed CW position for field day. Would volunteer my computer, transceiver, antenna etc. to get all up and working. I was then advised that they absolutely didn't need my help in any way. Whoa! I just volunteered, I'm not taking over the club. The senior powers didn't want me to be involved, very simple. OK, I just never went back. The really sad part. Every time they see me at a local shopping center they say hi and ask why I don't come to club meetings. They just don't get it.

You should tell them that when they ask -- Really....
A lot of the older folks just don't get the fact that others in the club (or themselves) have done something insulting and arrogant and earned your disinterest...

Telling them that is the first step towards getting them to fix it.

If they don't listen after they've been told how they insulted you, then you walk away.



People like that have their own agenda and inner circle, so "Resistance is futile"...moving on is the best option if it bugs you. They really don't want to have to deal with new people. The other option is to let them do what they do and enjoy the fruits of THEIR labor. 
It's ironic that the same folks will complain that nobody "steps up" , but lock out those who try to help.
Logged

W4KVW
Member

Posts: 283




Ignore
« Reply #56 on: June 06, 2015, 01:47:14 PM »

Elmer died when Bugs Bunny also got a Shotgun.Be very very quiet,we are Elmer Hunting.  Grin

Clayton
W4KVW
Logged
VE3LYX
Member

Posts: 814




Ignore
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2015, 05:18:48 AM »

Don't let others define you. I operate a fair amount of AM and discovered there are more critics then Elmers there which surprised me. Some have their new mega buck SDR Rx on and are doing the happy dance singing "I found something you did wrong" IE just wanted to let you know om that your off freq a half a KC and your not modulating 100% (My rig was designed with just under 40% mod and being a collectable is NOT getting any modifications) Then there is the "I heard a P--weak in there although they often run  tests themselves with PW stuff. Or this one I heard the other day from someone who always tunes up on freq going "Yay Yay Yay" and he had the nerve to tell someone "use the dummy dummy" I felt compelled to press the PTT and say. "Why, You never do". (No it wasn't me he was talking to)And then there is the one who is always critcal of everyones signal , even rude but his RX/tX antenna switch is and has been for several years unscrewing his coax from the rx and screwing it on to the TX which takes up many minutes of time we often don't have. That all said there still are some great folks out there who will go out of their way to help you with a test or sked and who will answer questions in a non condescending manner. I have been exactly where you were in field days as well back when I was first licensed. Now I do field day at home. Avoid those who are rude. Don't even reply to their CQs. Water the friendships you value. Eventually some may realize that they are not fun to be around. Some may change but some won't. And always be ready to be an Elmer to someone else WHEN THEY NEED it.
Now the comment about high speed CW and no answer I must address. there is a Ham (K something)operating where I do on 80M CW who constantly calls CQ and a good clip but very few ever get to answer him because he leaves no space for an answer. I could not believe it when I first heard him but he has not changed. I can hear folks trying to reply , in fact I have tried myself but he doesn't appear to understand the purpose of a receiver. Anyway don't let the elite and rude spoil your hobby. Just hold them up as a bad example and determine not to become like them.  
don
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 05:24:49 AM by VE3LYX » Logged
N7ZAL
Member

Posts: 198


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2015, 10:57:55 AM »

Elmer is a new word that I despise and it fits into the CBification of ham radio.

We never had "elmers" when I started out and we just learned the stuff by ourselves and with the help of a few oldtimers.

Today with the INTERNET all the information you need is available...of course when I started we had to read books and manuals. Smiley

Some of the problems with ham radio today is people think they need their hand held to learn anything.

Regardless, using the word "elmer" makes you sound like a neophyte...it should be banned.  Sad
Logged

Later, Bill N7ZAL (ex. WA2DPB, WB3BOC, N2FWS)
SOFAR
Member

Posts: 1381




Ignore
« Reply #59 on: June 13, 2015, 11:41:18 AM »

@ Bill, ever finish that book?
Logged
Pages: Prev 1 2 3 [4] 5 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!