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Author Topic: New Kenwood TS590SG, will it be any better?  (Read 109884 times)
ZENKI
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Posts: 1621




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« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2014, 02:38:43 AM »

Actually if Kenwood packaged the TS590S into a package similar to the Yaesu FT950 it would be very popular. I am surprised that Yaesu has not done this with the FTDX5000 yet.
Yaesu always used to have this approach with radios like the FT990 and FT920.  A single receiver high performance radio in a big box with knobs is always a popular seller.

Its clear that Kendwood thinks that  radios like the size of the TS870S and TS590SG is good marketing position for them.
I suppose they are right when you look back at past models like the TS430S,TS440S and TS450 which were extremely popular . The TS590S seems to continue the tradition of this mid size radio form factor.

The bottom line is that whatever form factor they decide to use, they just have to pay attention towards getting the basics right . We dont  need to change radios  every year just to fix things like RX antenna input protection, needing a amplifier buffer, ALC overshoot compression and poor TX IMD. The first company who releases a radio model that  checks all the boxes will have a winner on their hands. Who really needs another new radio with poor performance in  so many areas?




I feel that the SG is a band aid for some of the problems they had from the S model,

desk presence not some tinny radio like the 590 or K3 which both are smallish toy like rigs.

Please elaborate on the problems you feel that need a band-aid on the TS-590s.

I would hardly call the TS-590s tinny or toy like. Or small for that matter. I have seen the innards of one and it is typical high quality Japanese Radio. I can not speak for the K-3 as I have not had the opportunity to examine one closely.

If you judge performance by the size of the radio, there are plenty of huge radios to pick from. Waiting for a bigger radio in the $3K range from Kenwood may be a long wait.

Stan K9IUQ
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ZENKI
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Posts: 1621




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« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2014, 02:48:31 AM »

It might have low composite phase noise however the first product you will hear is the TX IMD. In this regard the TS590S is below average. When the average radio has its IMD products louder by 50  to 70db  above the phase noise you still have a poor rig pollution problem.

Unfortunately for all ham radio companies,  be it Elecraft, Icom, Yaesu, Kenwood or Flex their transmitters are poor performers.  The issue of poor noisy transmitters has been known about in Europe for decades now because of VHF contesting and high population density. I can hear bad radios during a VHF contests. I can hear phase noise from another country. DF9IC has been keeping track of this problem for a long time now. Look how bad the modern Icom VHF/UHF all band radios perform. They just as filthy as the Icom PRO series of radios.

http://www.df9ic.de/


We heading in the right direction we just need 1 good  company to take the lead and produce a radio that is clean in all regards.  The TS590SG would have been a perfect candidate. Unfortunately its TX IMD performance will be crap. If it was good as the old TS450S it would have been close to the perfect radio for most hams needs, even contesters or dxpeditioners.

Anyway maybe in the next model Kenwood or Elecraft.



The best information on the hardware differences between the TS-590S and TS-590SG is on Nevada's website in the UK.  I don't believe I can attach a PDF to a post here, but just do a search for the following in Google (BTW, Nevada is a large dealer in the UK):

TS-590S_NPRI_latest

Click on the Nevada link, and the PDF outlines the hardware differences.  IMO, the most significant update with the upcoming TS-590SG is a hardware redesign of the 1st LO, which reduces phase noise/composite transmitter noise, and improves 2kHz spacing 3rd order dynamic range. From a Kenwood release: "revised the circuitry around 1st Mixer which improves C/N characteristic of 1st LO." This should be interesting, as this was the point of contention and major complaint from those in other camps (E and T) who panned the 590S as being somewhat of a broadband transmit noise generator in field day or multi-multi operations.

Evidently, they are using a different, or dedicated, display board CPU, as the new 590SG will display CW on the LCD screen.  I wish them luck with that, as I've really not seen a decent algorithm yet that can handle all fists on CW.

According to the Kenwood Japan website, the TS-590SG MSRP, converting from Yen to $, is going to be $2K, but who knows what the street price will be. The typical amateur manufacturer to dealer margin, without any quantity or special purchase discounts, etc., is 25%. We will just have to wait to see what the street price will be, but I imagine it may be higher than the original 590S price point.

73
Don W9CW

This is a very interesting comment because according to the ARRL lab results the TS-590 is one of the cleanest 12V transmitters with regard to composite noise:

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W1BR
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Posts: 4178




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« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2014, 01:18:07 PM »

What about the new Palstar HF radio, if it ever is released for sale?
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W2BLC
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Posts: 35




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« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2014, 04:50:56 PM »

Not everyone wants their desk filled with a single rig that weighs in excess of fifty pounds. Mid sized radios - such as the 590 and the K3 - appear to fill the bill very nicely. Been there and done that with all kinds of rigs over 50+ years and I am well impressed with the mid sized rigs. Very convenient to install, move around, service, and ship. I enjoy my K3 and the entire K-Line of accessories - the size is perfect. Yes, it is menu driven - however, in most cases those menu selections are made rarely. Hence, no need for a bunch of discrete controls.

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KA4NMA
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Posts: 593




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« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2014, 08:09:32 PM »

For me, what happens outside the ham bands is at least as important as Inside..
Broadcast and Utility DX'ing is still alive, allthough some of it sounds like a grinder..   Grin

Broadcast SWL is pretty dead unless you are Religious.  Cheesy Cheesy

The days of HF SWLing is pretty much a thing of the past - unfortunately.

I doubt many radio manufacturers think about SWLs any more. I am just happy they still make ham band gear.

Stan K9IUQ


Lets leave your anti religious bias out of a ham radio forum. Stay on topic.
Randy Ka4nma
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AF7LT
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Posts: 3




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« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2014, 09:43:44 PM »

Hi soon to be a new general/extra.  Is the ts 590  a viable radio  to start with?  is  even with some compromises for say  the $1000 budget or the $1500 budget what currently are the best  bang performing radios  for the regular Joe that wants  solid performance and  doesn't have a higher budget?  I plan to do CW, digital SSB etc.  Is there some  reason to for example avoid a  all in one and try to find a radio  Rx TX that is a best bang  for its market price currently?  I realise some of these radios in this  price point are very menu driven, is there a good  radio that  performs  within these parameters?
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SWL2002
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Posts: 895




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« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2014, 04:59:50 AM »

For me, what happens outside the ham bands is at least as important as Inside..
Broadcast and Utility DX'ing is still alive, allthough some of it sounds like a grinder..   Grin

Broadcast SWL is pretty dead unless you are Religious.  Cheesy Cheesy

The days of HF SWLing is pretty much a thing of the past - unfortunately.

I doubt many radio manufacturers think about SWLs any more. I am just happy they still make ham band gear.

Stan K9IUQ


Lets leave your anti religious bias out of a ham radio forum. Stay on topic.
Randy Ka4nma

How about you leave your religious bias out of the forum also.  In fact, I'd really like to see all religion left out of Ham Radio, especially those religious nuts who run the useless bible reading and prayer nets on 40 meters.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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K9IUQ
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Posts: 2969




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« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2014, 05:35:18 AM »

Lets leave your anti religious bias out of a ham radio forum. Stay on topic.
Randy Ka4nma

"Broadcast SWL is pretty dead unless you are Religious"

HUH? There is little to listen on the SWL broadcast bands any more except Religious Programming.
How does stating the truth make me biased?

Stan K9IUQ
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W1JKA
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Posts: 2099




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« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2014, 08:52:23 AM »

RE: K9IUQ

Amen
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WA9UAA
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Posts: 360




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« Reply #54 on: October 12, 2014, 06:10:31 AM »

Hi soon to be a new general/extra.  Is the ts 590  a viable radio  to start with?  is  even with some compromises for say  the $1000 budget or the $1500 budget what currently are the best  bang performing radios  for the regular Joe that wants  solid performance and  doesn't have a higher budget?  I plan to do CW, digital SSB etc.  Is there some  reason to for example avoid a  all in one and try to find a radio  Rx TX that is a best bang  for its market price currently?  I realise some of these radios in this  price point are very menu driven, is there a good  radio that  performs  within these parameters?

I'd get the TS 590 if I were going to get a rig now. Get one of the new production ones that has had the ALC problem fixed. 73, Rob
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SWL2002
Member

Posts: 895




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« Reply #55 on: October 12, 2014, 07:28:43 AM »

Hi soon to be a new general/extra.  Is the ts 590  a viable radio  to start with?  is  even with some compromises for say  the $1000 budget or the $1500 budget what currently are the best  bang performing radios  for the regular Joe that wants  solid performance and  doesn't have a higher budget?  I plan to do CW, digital SSB etc.  Is there some  reason to for example avoid a  all in one and try to find a radio  Rx TX that is a best bang  for its market price currently?  I realise some of these radios in this  price point are very menu driven, is there a good  radio that  performs  within these parameters?

I'd get the TS 590 if I were going to get a rig now. Get one of the new production ones that has had the ALC problem fixed. 73, Rob

Also, even a used TS-590 will be upgraded by Kenwood Service free of charge.
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NN6XX
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« Reply #56 on: November 03, 2014, 07:01:33 PM »

Anyone ever use the Quick Transfer with two Kenwoods?

Jack
nn6xx@hotmail.com
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ZENKI
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Posts: 1621




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« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2014, 01:50:30 AM »

Sherwood has tested the TS590SG   a very good receiver performance  for the average ham. No excuses now not affording  good receiver performance.

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

I suppose the K3 has something to worry about now.

Just a darn shame that the transmitter in the TS590SG will be  not  best available or approach transmitter performance that is on the top of the TX performance chart.
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K9IUQ
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« Reply #58 on: December 11, 2014, 08:11:12 AM »

Sherwood has tested the TS590SG   a very good receiver performance  for the average ham. No excuses now not affording  good receiver performance.

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

I suppose the K3 has something to worry about now.

Just a darn shame that the transmitter in the TS590SG will be  not  best available or approach transmitter performance that is on the top of the TX performance chart.

More BS numbers about nothing. Sherwood explained his test of the TS-590SG in the Yahoo group. He said as he has repeatedly said elsewhere that any RX with a 80-85 db close-in dynamic range (DR3) or higher is good enough.

Good enough translates to: if you do CW Contesting you will be happy. The average everyday ham would be happy with most of the radios on his list and never know the difference. Picking a radio by DR3 only is not too smart. Many other factors relate to buying any radio. Mr. Sherwood himself will tell you this.

In a blind everyday test I would bet most hams could not tell DR3 performance differences between most modern radios on RX. Most hams do not even know what DR3 is or how it would affect a signal. They just know that is how Radios are rated at the Sherwood site.

Please give us the link for your TX Performance Chart. I would like to see it.  Smiley

Stan K9IUQ
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KD8MJR
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Posts: 5530




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« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2014, 03:33:06 PM »

Well Stan another post I totally agree with.
If more hams had test gear and tried to run these tests themselves they would realize that most of these numbers are already in a zone of total irrelevance for real world use.  Take a 100 so called expert ham radio operators and give them a blind test with the top 20 on that list and I bet they would have picks that are all over the chart.  When I ran some tests on my radios, just moving the cables a few inches made the reading change by several db and using different brands of cables produced different results, and since my calibration was not recent I could not trust the numbers anyway.  That's one of my peeves with Sherwoods numbers, he has no calibration data posted for the equipment he is using, at least none I can find.
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“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)
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