Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

donate to eham
   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... 9 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: What makes "old" or "vintage" expensive?  (Read 99855 times)
K4COP
Member

Posts: 22




Ignore
« on: October 09, 2014, 09:42:48 AM »

Just a personal soap box here....... Having been inactive for about 12 years, I got back into the hobby a few months ago.  I was shell shocked at the price of modern HF transceivers.  No way can I afford them on a cop's salary except for maybe an IC-718 or the Alinco DXSR8T.  So I decided to look at older rigs.  Again, shell shock at what folks are asking for older or so-called "vintage" radios.  When I first got my ticket in 1976, I bought a Tempo One from Walt Henry out in Anaheim.  Today, I see people selling pretty beat up Tempo One's for more that I paid for mine new.  Same thing with the Tempo 2020 I bought new.  The mere fact that a radio is old does not mean it is worth more than what it went for new.  Okay, I get it if the radio is in mint, like new condition with no problems.  I also realize that there are true collector's items out there such as old Collins rigs.  And I realize that people will sell stuff for what the market will pay.  But there comes a point of "let's be reasonable."

Take Vibroplex keys for example.  So many I see for sale are $150 plus.  I saw one recently that looked like it had been through the fires of hell and the guy wanted more than $200 for it with some parts missing.  Why would I pay that much used when I can get a new one for almost the same price?

I recently purchased a mint Ten-Tec Century 21 for $100.  Works great, full power output, and the VFO had been replaced so it works fine.  I personally think that was a reasonable price for something with that age on it.  I'm looking for a compatible keyer to go with it.  But I am certainly not going to pay more for the keyer that I paid for the radio!  I will stick with my old Brown Brothers Machine Company straight key for now.

I guess I am wondering, am I just insane or unreasonable, or are there some other folks who think the price of used equipment is getting out control?
Logged
NK7Z
Member

Posts: 2525


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2014, 10:21:32 AM »

Just a personal soap box here....... Having been inactive for about 12 years, I got back into the hobby a few months ago.  I was shell shocked at the price of modern HF transceivers.  No way can I afford them on a cop's salary except for maybe an IC-718 or the Alinco DXSR8T.  So I decided to look at older rigs.  Again, shell shock at what folks are asking for older or so-called "vintage" radios.  When I first got my ticket in 1976, I bought a Tempo One from Walt Henry out in Anaheim.  Today, I see people selling pretty beat up Tempo One's for more that I paid for mine new.  Same thing with the Tempo 2020 I bought new.  The mere fact that a radio is old does not mean it is worth more than what it went for new.  Okay, I get it if the radio is in mint, like new condition with no problems.  I also realize that there are true collector's items out there such as old Collins rigs.  And I realize that people will sell stuff for what the market will pay.  But there comes a point of "let's be reasonable."

Take Vibroplex keys for example.  So many I see for sale are $150 plus.  I saw one recently that looked like it had been through the fires of hell and the guy wanted more than $200 for it with some parts missing.  Why would I pay that much used when I can get a new one for almost the same price?

I recently purchased a mint Ten-Tec Century 21 for $100.  Works great, full power output, and the VFO had been replaced so it works fine.  I personally think that was a reasonable price for something with that age on it.  I'm looking for a compatible keyer to go with it.  But I am certainly not going to pay more for the keyer that I paid for the radio!  I will stick with my old Brown Brothers Machine Company straight key for now.

I guess I am wondering, am I just insane or unreasonable, or are there some other folks who think the price of used equipment is getting out control?


Hi,

Consider inflation:
As per one inflation calculator-- $1000 in 1976 has the same purchasing power as $4,334.51 in 2014.  The total inflation rate from 1976 to 2014 is 333.45098%.  The average inflation rate from 1976 to 2014 is 3.93494%. 

That takes care of why things seem to cost more than they did originally.  Your original premise forces a long term look, i.e. vintage, etc., so inflation will eat you alive...  Also, as you said, the market rises to what it will take, and when hams sell something-- well, most of them believe they own gold, when they buy something most of them believe you own-- well never mind, you get the idea. 

So all in all, your 1976 $1000 Xcvr is really selling for about $230.71 in inflation equated dollars, which actually seems quite reasonable...  Plus when you hear the words, collectible, antique, or vintage, add 15% to the cost of anything being sold...  If it is being sold by a ham more than likely just add 15% more...  Smiley

Logged

Thanks,
Dave
Amateur Radio: RFI help, Reviews, Setup information, and more...
https://www.nk7z.net
AA4PB
Member

Posts: 15065




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2014, 10:46:19 AM »

When the VW Beetle first came out you could by a new one for about $1500. Today they start at $20,295.
Logged

Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA
N3QE
Member

Posts: 5593




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2014, 11:22:26 AM »

Heathkit HW-100 in 1969: $240.

$240 in 2014 dollars: $1555.

$1555 gets you a very nice new transceiver today from any of the major brands (way better than anything on the ham market in the old days at any price).
Logged
KH2G
Member

Posts: 349




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2014, 11:56:05 AM »

I think too that running old stuff is a fad for today. It is not really logical considering you get more bang for the buck with the newer stuff. (Generally) Having said that, I still do get a kick out of doing manual tune ups etc. I still enjoy home brew with tubes etc. I've been licensed awhile (1956) and have tried all the various modes and will flat state that I have no favorite band mod or otherwise. I like to work what I feel like when I feell like it and the easiest way today for me is my old TS2K/SB-1K combo into whatever antenna I happen to have up. I'd be fun to have an old BC-610 or Collins S line but been there done that so it doesn't matter. It's in enjoying what and when you want. That includes my homebrewing projects. 73
Dick KH2G
Logged
KB4QAA
Member

Posts: 3342




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2014, 12:20:10 PM »

Well, let's see how good our memories really are.  Attached is a Henry advert from October 1976 QST for the Tempo 1 hf rig.  Lets price a setup similar to a basic rig from today, but not including any tuner.

Tempo 1   $399
P/S.......... $99
Mic...........$39
Pwr/SWR meter..$42.95

And from MFJ same month
-CMOS keyer (use with external paddles) $49.95

Total:  $629.90

From the Inflation Calculator  at  http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

What cost $629.90 in 1976 would cost $2543.51 in 2013.

$2543.00 would buy a darned good radio today!  You could buy Ten-Tec's Omni VII special, which includes, PS, Mic, Tuner, Filters, etc for $2499!!!

Face it.  Back in the 'old days' we payed a lot more for radios that really don't hold a candle to todays radio in features and performance!  bill

p.s.. Ooops.  the board isn't friendly about attachments.   maybe later.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 12:32:36 PM by KB4QAA » Logged

KA0HCP, ex-KB4QAA Relocated to Ks. April 2019.
KB4QAA
Member

Posts: 3342




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2014, 12:25:07 PM »

QST, October 1976:

Logged

KA0HCP, ex-KB4QAA Relocated to Ks. April 2019.
K4COP
Member

Posts: 22




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 12:41:46 PM »

Thanks for the responses.  I think as we get older we sometimes yearn for the good old days and try to get back some of the youth we have seen go by all too quickly.  My mind says I can still kick in doors, take on 5 bad guys at once, etc.  But my 61 year-old body screams "Leave me alone!  Are you crazy!?"
Logged
KB4QAA
Member

Posts: 3342




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2014, 01:00:11 PM »

K4COP,
I agree that most of the prices you quoted for misc items are rather high.  But remember, those are 'asking prices".  If you don't like them shop around and "Don't be in a hurry".   

73, bill
Logged

KA0HCP, ex-KB4QAA Relocated to Ks. April 2019.
G3RZP
Member

Posts: 1316




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2014, 01:32:48 PM »

> It is not really logical considering you get more bang for the buck with the newer stuff. <

Is that necessarily so? The last generation of tube PA transceivers were appreciably cleaner than any of the modern solid state offerings with the exception of the latest SDR. They were also more than adequate on receive in terms of intermodulation and phase noise.

What they DIDN'T have were multiple memories, drives for auto tune antenna tuners and computers for logging and so on. Now, it may well be that you don't care for the 'bells and whistles', in which case, a lot of these extra 'bang for your buck' features are of as much use as teats on a bull!

In many cases, this tends to explain why the old transceivers are fetching a good price, in spite of the fact that some of them have known common problems which aren't necessarily that difficult to cure.

I have not seen anything in terms of specification which makes me want to change my 30 year old (but admittedly much modified) transceiver for anything newer. Plus I can be pretty sure that in 5 or 10 years time when the special custom IC used in the latest whizbang that happens to have died and is no longer available that I can carry on, even if I have to cobble some discrete circuitry together....
Plus surface mount is great for small size but when you have a 256 or 512 BGA device that needs changing, even if you can get a replacement, changing it is a bit of an iffy job even for a professional outfit specialising in doing so.......
 
Logged
KH2G
Member

Posts: 349




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2014, 04:51:12 PM »

G3RZP - yes but note I did say "in General" When I say more bang for the buck I refer to things like DSP, built in keyers and consider that some of the chips today take the place of many tubes and at much less space and power and cost.  As I said, I still enjoy the manual approach but I still use computers as appropriate but keep my old slide rule in the desk as it can be faster for some things than fiddling with my calculator - hi
Regards and just enjoy what and how you enjoy this hobby.
Dick KH2G
Logged
G3RZP
Member

Posts: 1316




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2014, 01:30:03 AM »

And when the power has gone and the UPS isn't powering the computer and you can't find batteries for that old calculator, the slide rule still works.......

I only have three of them.....plus some log tables.
Logged
NK7Z
Member

Posts: 2525


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2014, 04:11:00 AM »

And when the power has gone and the UPS isn't powering the computer and you can't find batteries for that old calculator, the slide rule still works.......

I only have three of them.....plus some log tables.
How quaint!  Slide rules!  I remember them!  Even still have one.  Now I think I'll run out and fill the water boiler in my car and head to the market to get some oats to grind...  I want breakfast!
Logged

Thanks,
Dave
Amateur Radio: RFI help, Reviews, Setup information, and more...
https://www.nk7z.net
KH2G
Member

Posts: 349




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2014, 01:28:35 PM »

NK7Z I think you made my point albeit unwittingly. I'd like to have an old Stanely Steamer just to putt around the yard once in awhile. Would I pay $100.00 for one  -no.  Fresh ground oats are a neat change.
Would I pay extra as opposed to already processed  -no. Would I opt for either on a regular basis no - That doesn't mean they are not fun just like using the latest and greatest. It's a "Mood of the Moment" thing with me! Turning g an old ARC 5 transmitter / Receiver combo into a working radio is fun but not something to do every day.
Enjoy the day
Dick  KH2G
Logged
KS2G
Member

Posts: 1079




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2014, 02:10:21 PM »

The issue of the "high price" of ham gear --both new and used-- comes up repeatedly ... most often  from newcomers and "returnees".

As stated by previous posters, when you consider "bang for the buck" and what rigs, antennas and accessories cost back in the "old days" in terms of buying power, ham gear has never been cheaper.

And as for used gear (in particular the complaints about eBay prices) -- can't be said too often: It's "worth" whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

 Wink
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... 9 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!