| W6LBV |
Rating:  |
2005-10-30 | |
| A Tale of Two Radios |
Time Owned: more than 12 months. |
With 62 reviews already listed on this board for the Kenwood TS-850, a transceiver which has been out of production for almost a decade, you might want to question whether yet another review is necessary. But this one will touch on a surprising aspect of the radio (surprising even to me) that has been only slightly mentioned in a few of the previous reviews. Nevertheless, as a group these reviews have done a very good job of describing the 850's many virtues and few faults.
My 850SAT was purchased new in 1995 and was used as my fixed station HF transceiver until it developed problems early in 2005. At that point it was taken to the Kenwood (California) repair station for what proved to be a bumpy ride (see my E-ham review of Kenwood service in the "Amateur Radio Equipment Repair Service" section.) While it was in the shop and while I was still uncertain whether the 850 would ever operate again, I purchased a new TS-480SAT to replace it ("What the heck, a new transceiver every decade or so isn't too extravagant!").
I set up this new "modern radio" in my base station, installed it into Ham Radio Deluxe on my main computer, worked through the radio's menus to set it up the way I wanted, built a custom HRD faceplate image to use, and put the radio into service. I operated it mostly via the computer and I was very pleased with its performance.
After this 480SAT setup work was completed and I was operational with it I learned that the 850 would be returning home and going back into service after all. Fortunately I had saved room for it in my shack and I could easily keep both Kenwoods operating in parallel. The 850 did return home, and it did go back into service, and it was indeed "as good as new." And then, with both radios operating side by side, I discovered something that I had never before suspected.
Given the free choice between using either radio, I found myself being strongly pulled toward the 850 for the kind of operating that I do (lots of band monitoring, some ssb/PSK31 rag chewing and a little light contesting). There is just something wonderful about having a sturdy, solid chassis sitting within easy visibility and reach, about reading its bright fluorescent display in a darkened shack, about using a smoothly functioning tuning knob and real front panel controls to operate it.... as opposed to controlling a radio solely via a computer screen and a mouse. The 480 (even using its own control head) just doesn't yield this kind of reward.
The 850's strong attraction may be sensory: the operator's ability to SEE the radio, to TOUCH the panel controls, to FEEL the case for possible high temperature, even occasionally to SMELL the circuit boards and components as they warm and outgas slightly. None of that sensory delight is available when the only manifestation of a radio is a computer-generated operating screen (a configuration that I could approximate with the 480; I could very easily disconnect the 480's physical control head, toss the RF deck out of sight under the bench, and operate the radio entirely by computer....or even remotely via the Internet.) But the 850 provides a much more satisfying operating experience in a way that a "computer-controlled radio" does not.
Yes, the 850 does not have DSP (but DSP can be added as an outboard system), doesn't have extensive menu options (its rather primitive menu system is of the "set once and forget" type), isn't optimized for computer control (it is lacking an RS-232 port, but it can be controlled by a serial data line using outboard digital logic level-shifters.) It won't operate on 60 and 6 meters; I have to use the 480 for that. And it isn't a juggernaut contesting radio; still, you can add additional IF filters to it if you need them. But it is a wonderful example of the state of the Amateur radio art at the point just before DSP and omnipotent microprocessors went mainstream; it has beautiful audio on both its halves; and it provides a degree of simplicity, intuitiveness, and intangible operating feedback that many of the new designs just don't deliver. I will never sell my 850SAT, and I can only wish that it keeps going forever!
I earned my license in 1960, in an era when the operators had all the intelligence and the radios had none. Not a microprocessor in sight then; these would not be in commercial production for at least another ten years. In those days of all-tube transmitters one always manually peaked the transmitter's driver and intermediate power amplifier (IPA) stages and then dipped the finals...and thought nothing about the effort. But now even the 850 has broadband RF circuits, and there is no real tuning to be done any longer. And in a few years, with the emergence of the totally Software Defined Radio, there will be no physically operable radio left either. On-air "operating" then will be entirely through a computer screen, keyboard, and point-and-click mouse, with perhaps an audio side stream optionally emerging from the computer. Amateur radio will become just another computer game! "Wot fun???"
The TS-850 is a little gem, and many of the previous reviewers have recognized that fact. If you can find a used 850 in good physical condition at a reasonable price, grab it without hesitation and by all means put it into service. And hang onto it as a tangible operating remembrance of what Amateur radio once was, before analog RF disappeared completely, leaving no trace, into the raging digital flood. |
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| N4RAP |
Rating: |
2005-08-01 | |
| Get one! |
Time Owned: more than 12 months. |
I've got two of these bad boys. Wanna sell me yours? Take a listen to some of those guys with the Hi Fi Audio, broadcast audio and Extended SSB audio and then look them up on www.qrz.com You will see a lot of pictures of stations with Kenwood TS 850's and DSP 100's. Enough said. Have a nice day.
N4RAP |
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| N2TXV |
Rating: |
2005-03-20 | |
| Very Good |
Time Owned: more than 12 months. |
| I owned the 850 for several years but recently sold it to purchase an 870. The 850 had a good receiver, nice PBT and flexible cascaded filters. With the internal CW keyer and good SSB audio, it still is well worth the price used. It may not have DSP inside, but it certainly is a great radio for 650-750 used. I also used the optional DSP-100 and it was a nice touch but not necessary. The internal tuner worked over a wide range and tuned pretty much whatever it was asked to do. If I found one for the right price, I would certainly own one again but the 870 is obviously better with IF-DSP etc and more advanced interference fighting measures. It had some cons, such as potential for a leaky internal battery, not always 100 watt output but nothing that would give it bas marks. |
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| K2MMM |
Rating: |
2005-03-20 | |
| Enjoyable |
Time Owned: 0 to 3 months. |
| I got this radio in a trade. Boy I am I glad I did. This is the best radio I have ever owned. Great signal/audio reports just using a G5RV up @ 25 feet. The receiver is the best and it really doesn't need DSP to do it. I had everything gone over and now it has a clean bill of health. I have a TS-2000 and it seems I like using the 850 better. Never had an Icom 756 Pro or Yaesu FT1000 so I can't compare to those. For my use it's perfect. 73 Mike K2MMM |
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| AE4TO |
Rating: |
2005-01-23 | |
| Kenwood can you continue the TS-850 saga!....TS-850-II |
Time Owned: more than 12 months. |
This is my second TS-850. I sold my original one and regret it,so I bought a second one.
Reasons: This tranceiver has one of the best receivers MADE. ( Just read the reviews in CQ & QST)I have two 500 Hz cw Filters and that works great on cw. This is a great cw radio with excellent qsk. Most of my radios are Tentec and this radio's receiver is as good as my Orion. On ssb and am in combination with the optional dsp is rated as one of the best audios out there.If Kenwood could just go back to producing a continuation of the TS-850-II. Just add DSP, two receivers, two antenna hoock ups,two keys connection, combination mechanical and dsp filters and they will be selling this radio like hot cookies!
If you are looking for an excellent tranceiver for ssb, cw and swl this radio is in the Very Top. |
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| MM3XPG |
Rating: |
2005-01-21 | |
| Great Radio |
Time Owned: more than 12 months. |
My TS850 is standard, no int ATU or additional filters. I have the AT230 & SP230.
It was my first transceiver and I have worked all corners of the globe with it (I now have the other UK licences.)
The known display fault also happened on mine but I had it repaired and has worked without fault since.
Inspite of now having an FT1000MP, I still won't part with my TS850. In fact I wish I could source an internal ATU for it and in the future maybe add some filters.
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| K9WIT |
Rating: |
2004-10-15 | |
| BEST ONE ! |
Time Owned: more than 12 months. |
| This is the best transceiver I have ever own. Bought one when they first came out and used it for five years with no problems. Thought it was time to change to something newer, boy that was a mistake. No icom can come close to this radio. Bought one in the last line of production and it is not going anywhere but the top of my desk. |
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| WA2JJH |
Rating: |
2004-10-10 | |
| WOW..all this for $700 |
Time Owned: 3 to 6 months. |
What another TS-850 review?
This bad boy is my second. The first is being repaied/butcherd/and moded for low RX consumption.
Seems just like the TS-520, everybody owned a TS-850. Of course this happened when the price dipped to $600-$700 by ebay.
I overpaid a little for this classic. $729 shipped with MC-60 mic and the 1.8 KHZ filter option(A HUGE PLUS, more later.
I have 2 RX’s to compare it with. The unstable but ultra low noise Drake R7A with minicircuits 1st IF mod. RF pre-amp bypass for 99% of RX. All the filters.
Considered to in the same league with W-J, Racal, and Harris.
The 2nd RX a Harris U-1446 Transceiver. Separate filters for USB and LSB for no compromise 2nd IF.
DSP, I am not impresses with yet! I tried the wrong rig. A Ten TEC PEGASUS.
Not even a 4 pole 6KHZ Xtal filter in the first IF. This DSP stuff does not cut the mustard. Computer simulated filters leaves ultra wide skirts.
I did not even compare the 850 with a Yeasu FT-100D or my Harris RF-3200.
Two area’s my mil spec rigs have over the TS-850 is noise floor. These vintage rigs had maybe one or two under 8 MHz clock speed CPU’s. The TS-850 uses DDS. RF square waves filtered into sine for L.O.’s will produce synch junk.
However this problem is diminished with the tighter IF XTAL filters. The 2.7.k punched up with the 1.8k IF’s reduced the noise floor. Also both Harris and the TR-7 use higher level mixing. Result……less noise.
However here is where the TS-850 makes up for synth junk. The twin PBT has 10 click stops on the high cut. 11 click stops on the low cut. I found with the 2.7 and 1.8kc when tweaked with the twin PBT gave me a very silent RX floor.
Twin PBT is unique. It allows non symmetrical IF width. So if it is dude that is bugging you above the pass band, adjust the VBT to adjust the bandwidth and position to get rid of
Him.. I have also found when both PBT controls are set at 12 O’clock, you get a decent CW filter!!!
When you do the noise blanker mod, the RX is clean.
I found my analog controls better than the DSP in the Pegasus.
Maybe I can tweak it with software as promised!!!!!
Ahhhhh…..That KENWOOD AUDIO. Good ALC time constants. The speech proc is a true RF envelope type. The IF TX audio must go through the XTAL filters. Clean punchy audio! The High freq boost is the cherry on the Sunday.
I can go on and on. However much has been said in earlier posts!
Warning…many parts for the ts-850 are no longer made. Perhaps the TS-850 will have 3erd party vendors like for DRAKE and Collins.
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| NL7W |
Rating: |
2004-08-21 | |
| The Best Example of Kenwood HF |
Time Owned: more than 12 months. |
This rig was produced during the height of analog HF transceiver production. In many respects, this 12 Vdc, 100-watt rig outperforms the TS-950 series. Despite not having the adequate roofing filters of today's high-end rigs like the Ten-Tec Orion, it was Kenwood's best example of what could be achieved with analog technology from 10 years ago.
Even though it’s all analog, this rig still outperforms or holds its own against all but the top-of-the-line rigs of today (even those with DSP). It is a engineering marvel I will not part with anytime soon.
If you own one and do not have cascaded INRAD filters installed, you are doing yourself a disservice. Depending on your operating habits, the rig really shines with 2.8 KHz; 2.1 KHz or 400 Hz filters installed in both IF stages.
In order to keep the rig up to date, my plans are to add an outboard audio DSP filter, such as the Timewave DSP-599zx. It would be hard to beat the extreme analog performance of the rig and the nice digital audio filtering of a Timewave or JPS unit.
CU on the air from Alaska. 73.
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| 8P6SH |
Rating: |
2004-08-01 | |
| Still holding its own |
Time Owned: more than 12 months. |
I just got back my TS850s after sending it for a fairly major check-up and some minor surgery. I felt I should provide a few thoughts on this rig, because I think it's still an outstanding value for money.
I bought my TS 850s used about two years ago and have since added inrad cascaded 2.1KHz IF filters and a 400Hz inrad for RTTY and CW.
This rig, particularly with the filters installed has allowed me to work several stations in tough contest and pile-up situations.
The receiver along with what is always being described as a clean transmit signal with great audio are it's main attributes.
It does however fall down slightly when stacked up against the likes of the FT1000mp Mk5. This is not really a fair comparison, but these rigs are all in current use. It therefore lacks the most modern DSP filtering, dual receive, seperate RX antenna and a second antenna connection.
This rig has racked up tens of thousands of contest QSO's and will continue to serve as the second rig in my SO2R configuration into the forseeable future.
All in all, an excellent rig for those starting to build a contest station or wanting to move to another level in their DX activity.
There are a few potential problems, but these are generally well-documented and some can be fairly easily fixed.
It's really about a 4.5, since I've given the Yaesu FT1000mp MkV field a 5, but since this site requires intergers, a five is a fair rating of this rig.
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