Survey Comments
CODE
Well well, today is April 2009 ish. So the code requirement has been removed. Oh my God that is hilarious.
Posted by
TIMEWILLTELL on 2009-04-17
THE LOOKING GLASS
MY HATS OFF TO ALL YOU AMATEURS WHO DO NOT LIKE TO CAUSE HATE AND DISCONTENT. IT IS THE LIDS THAT LIKE TO COMPARE WHAT LEVEL OF AMATEUR OR PERSON YOU ARE BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU KNOW, HAVE, CHOOSE OR WANT TO ASSOCIATE YOURSELVES WITH. SOME NEVER MIND THE BASIC FUNDAMENTALS OF RADIO HAVING TO DO WITH "INTERNATIONAL GOODWILL" OR MAKING IT AN ENJOYABLE HOBBY FOR ALL. SOME NEVER MIND MAKING A GOOD EXAMPLE OF HOW PEOPLE SHOULD TREAT OTHERS DESPITE DIFFERENCES. NEVER MIND THE FACT THAT THOSE WHO DO CREATE BARRIERS AND LIKE TO BASH OTHERS ARE USUALLY NOT HAPPY PEOPLE IN GENERAL. I PERSONALLY DO NOT CARE WHAT MODE, RADIO, ANTENNA, COAX, MICROPHONE OR OTHER GEAR OR HOW MUCH YOU OWN OR ITS COST. I COULD CARE LESS NOT TO EVEN ASSOCIATE WITH THE POOR TRODDIN DOWN SO CALLED AMATEUR MISFITS WHO LIKE TO FEEL BETTER ABOUT THEMSELVES THROUGH BROW BEATING AND COMPARING THEMSELVES TO OTHERS. YOUR ACTIONS AND ATTITUDES ARE NEVERTHELESS AN OBSTRUCTION TO THE HOBBY AND THE REAL AMATEURS WHO REALLY ARE WORTHY OF HAVING A LICENSE. SINCE IT IS A PRIVILEGE AND NOT A RIGHT I WOULD HOPE THAT YOUR PRIORITIES IN ORDER.
I KNOW FOR A FACT THERE ARE MORE GOOD OPERATORS THAN BAD LIDS. IT MAKES ME FEEL WONDERING WHY THAT THE SO CALLED "CB'ERS" ON THE AMATEUR BANDS ARE MORE COURTEOUS, ORGANIZED AND WILLING TO COOPERATE AND LEARN. MUST BE THAT THEY TRUELY HAVE RESPECT AND DO NOT TAKE IT ALL FOR GRANTED.
EVER THINK THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN RADIO?
MUST HAVE A VERY NARROW PERSPECTIVE OF LIFE AND A LIMITED AMOUNT OF REAL SOCIAL SKILLS.
Posted by
IFTHETRUTHBEKNOWN on 2004-02-15
One Last Thing . . .
Strangely enough every time the "code issue" comes up there are those who always fall back on the default excuse that those who are opposed to code, in terms of licensing requirements, want something handed to them without having worked for it. What I find particularly amazing is the fact that cw is merely a mode of operation like all the other modes out there. But you don't see all the packet or PSK31 folks out there bitching the way many of the cw bigots do. And that's the real truth.
Posted by
KE4RWS on 2003-02-15
The Last Word
My sincerest compliments to W6FCC. Articulate, eloquent, sublime. Bravo!
Posted by
ME2FU on 2003-02-12
LIDS
Yep... you better believe it. We would be a lot better off if some of the folks I hear on the air in the NYC/LI section would open up a tube of crazy glue, place the entire contents of the tube along their lips, then shut their mouth for a while.
Posted by
K2EPM on 2003-02-05
To Each His Own
I have many ham friends. Some love CW, and some hate it. They all learned it to get on HF, and went on from there. I also was intimidated by the code at first, but I buckled down, and lo and behold, now it's my favorite mode! Does this make me better than anyone else? No. I simply followed the rules and guidelines that have been set up by the FCC and by current international treaty.
On that note, I'm enjoying CW, and have yet to run into anything but friendly folks who give me plenty of great QSOs.
There is nothing wrong with the code requirement as it stands now. A great many people have passed the code test and are now operating an a variety of modes on HF. Like I said earlier, I have plenty of friends who hate the mode and don't use it. Are they any less hams than me? Heavens no! However, they did all manage to pass the code requirements as they stand. Does this make me a bigot? I don't think so; just someone who played by the rules and got the ticket.
KE4RWS, you seem to lump all CW operators into a certain mentlity judging from your user profile. I hope that you will find that this is not the case. I do hope that you manage to upgrade to HF. I would be happy to work you on any band or mode possible. Amateur radio operators are supposed to be courteous. A good QSO to me is good in any mode, and I don't really care if you like code or not. If the conversation is good, that's all that matters. I think you will find that I'm not alone. 73
Posted by
KC0IOX on 2003-02-01
To KC0IOX
Your comments are well tempered, and well taken. Finally, a CW operator who recognizes the mode for what it is! My comments do tend to lump all cw operators together, however, if you take note to all the comments in this particular thread you'll notice the only comments from cw folks is that their better than everyone else. That's why my statements indicate what they do, because all the statements, up until yours, indicate the cw operators posting here all feel the same way, superior. Anyway, I greatly appreciate your comments on the matter, and I too feel the same way regarding amateur radio in general. It doesn't matter what mode you enjoy so long as you enjoy what you do. Any one particular mode of operation makes you no better than anyone else!!
Posted by
KE4RWS on 2003-02-01
Conceited People
Yep, your right. No one will ever be in the same class as those of you who know cw. Your definitely in a class all by yourself! This division will ALWAYS be present so long as cw enthuisiasts think their better than the rest of the non-cw enthusiasts. I can only keep relating it to deeply conceited, nazi attitudes. The amateur radio hobby is merely a hobby, but you obviously have those who "think" their better than others, or "think" their real radio operators because of a little thing called cw. And there's a lot of cw enthusiasts who think that way. There's also many cw folks who don't feel that way. I believe that you should participate in the amateur radio hobby in whichever way you happen to like. But to say to other people that their not real amateur operators just because they don't care for cw is very conceited, and has absolutely NOTHING to do with amateur radio and what it stands for. There are obviously a lot of cw bigots in this country, and it's no different than being a racist in my book. Knowing and using cw makes you no better than any other human being, and that's the bottom line here.
Posted by
KE4RWS on 2003-01-30
KE4RWS
Thank you, we know where you stand now!
Posted by
CURMUDGEON on 2003-01-30
To the previous post . . .
Apparently all knowing cw does is give you self-imagined elitist ideas (at least for some). Anyone who states on here that their better than someone else because of a specific "mode of operation" is a self-proclaimed elitist dilusionary. And to the notion that "If you don't know cw then your not a ham", all I can say is go tell all your cw club members that bull because the rest of us who don't enjoy cw, or choose not to use it have other ambitions within the hobby that DON'T include the use of cw. It appears that some people can't handle the fact that some folks don't enjoy cw. And because of this we're not real amateur radio operators? Get real. Better yet, get a life! Funny thing is you NEVER see folks who enjoy packet, SSB, AM or whatever mode of choice getting on here stating they're the only real ham radio operators [because of their prefered mode]. You don't see them trying desperately to justify they're prefered mode in every way possible to give it more credibility in the hobby. But everyone just remember before you start flaming my thoughts on the matter that it was another cw enthusiast who got on here proclaiming he was a "real ham" simply because he knew cw, thus implying everyone else doesn't amount to sh**. That's precisely the kind of "elitist" attitude that most of us have been talking about out here. It's not that we're against cw. Actually, far from it. What we're sick of is all the pro-cw folks who feel the need to try and make other licensed operators think that they're better, or even smarter than those of us who aren't interested in cw. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with a lack of ambition in the hobby, and there's no FCC law that says you HAVE to upgrade to any given level once licensed. It's time to look at this "I'm better than you" problem for what it is. People are sick and tired of this Nazi type mentality, and all your doing is demonstrating to everyone out here that you think your better than everyone else and all because of cw? Gimme a break!!
Posted by
KE4RWS on 2003-01-29
wa4dou & me2fu
thank you wa4dou you are correct in your posting of what the problem is. This issue will never die the ham radio ranks are forever divided because of some folks who want the world handled to them on a gold chain. ME2FU you are also correct you have summed up the problem in only a few words.
long live cw
Posted by
THEWISEONE on 2003-01-29
CW has its purpose
Knowing the code for a ham is like knowing the greek alphabet for a fraternity pledge, or the college fight song, or the pledge of allegiance, or a host of other "ritual" laden bits of knowledge. It's a measure of willingness to become part of the "fraternity" of hams, friends, cohorts, or fellow countrymen (and women). It's not necessary for the "code" to be an important mode to have it retain it's importance as part of the "glue" that makes membership in the fraternity of amateur radio operators something more than buying a radio and passing an exam with equally unimportant bits of knowledge. Morse Code is far more fundamental to the history of amateur radio than is knowing a band plan, or how to compute the wavelength of a piece of coax at some frequency with some velocity factor. One word can describe it's purpose - tradition. Unfortunately, tradition is associated with being useless, so knowing code is not important, but speaking english in the USA is going the same way - it too is no longer important. And so it goes.
Posted by
W6FCC on 2003-01-29
Which End Do I Talk Into?
Knowing cw does not make you a better person. It does, however, make you a ham. Elitist--yes. Old-fashioned--yes. Adamant--absolutely. Simply put, if you don't know cw, then you're not a ham. And regarding the elimination of the cw requirement in order to promote the entry of newcomers, I say let the hobby die a dignified death. Peace, FU
Posted by
ME2FU on 2003-01-28
bandplans neglected
I am one of those who voted YES. I don't let lids ruin my pleasure, but quite often I get annoyed by bad practice. A huge lot of issues could be discussed here, but the last I suffered was during CQWW-SSB. I am mainly a CW operator, but do some SSB as well, in contests too. I was really mad that quite many stations operated SSB as low as 7.003 !!! Of course I had the CHOICE of observing the bandplan thus missing some precious mults, or working them and thus being an intruder myself. A hard choice indeed. I felt really sorry for fellow CW ops trying to cope with the terrible QRM.
My license allows me to work CW across the whole band, but I have almost never done it in the phone portions of the bands, except in a few major contest, when ONLY A SMALL PORTION at the lower phone edge are used by CW ops (legally of course).
I wan't to just mention the many cases of CB intruders in the CW part of 28MHz band, leaving it with no comment.
Posted by
LZ1PJ on 2003-01-26
lead by example
I think that every amateur that enjoys jamming VHF/UHF repeaters and the HF bands as well, should be tracked down like responsible hams used to do in the past. Now, it seems that no one wants to take the time and make the effort to do so. I understand that most of us have full time jobs and cannot take time off to do so. BUT, there are many retired hams in my community that do in fact have the time to do the tracking. This will at least put a lid on some of the hash on the air. 73 from KA3ZAI.....Lou
Posted by Louis T. Rubens on 2003-01-26attitudes and its affects
The attitudes are mostly positive and truly are in my opinion consistant with the traditions and nature of this fine hobby. My reason on voting yes though is the frequency of some operators to make me feel belittled by not being able to match wits or have split second come backs that are hurtful in nature.
I end my comments and my opinions by reminding myself of the first statement found in " The Amateur's Code"
" The Radio Amateur is:
CONSIDERATE... never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others." found in my copy of the ARRL handbook for radio amateurs 1997 edition.
Posted by
KD5GLX on 2003-01-26
attitudes and its affects
The attitudes are mostly positive and truly are in my opinion consistant with the traditions and nature of this fine hobby. My reason on voting yes though is the frequency of some operators to make me feel belittled by not being able to match wits or have split second come backs that are hurtful in nature.
I end my comments and my opinions by reminding myself of the first statement found in " The Amateur's Code"
" The Radio Amateur is:
CONSIDERATE... never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others." found in my copy of the ARRL handbook for radio amateurs 1997 edition.
Posted by
KD5GLX on 2003-01-26
attitudes and its affects
The attitudes are mostly positive and truly are in my opinion consistant with the traditions and nature of this fine hobby. My reason on voting yes though is the frequency of some operators to make me feel belittled by not being able to match wits or have split second come backs that are hurtful in nature.
I end my comments and my opinions by reminding myself of the first statement found in " The Amateur's Code"
" The Radio Amateur is:
CONSIDERATE... never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others." found in my copy of the ARRL handbook for radio amateurs 1997 edition.
Posted by
KD5GLX on 2003-01-26
oops
i hit the refresh a couple of times and it seemed to repost my comments. sorry.
Posted by
KD5GLX on 2003-01-26
Attitudes
I'm going to attempt to help clarify the situation between a certain segment of the "old timers" and a certain segment of the "new comers." This may be impossible because the "new comers" want/need absolutely precise and specific answers while the "old timers" know that is almost impossible and can't offer much more than generalities.
In the Navy, when a ship crosses the Equator, King Neptune rallies the members of the crew that have previously crossed the Equator. They are known as "shellbacks." Those members that are doing it the first time are known as "polywogs." It is the priviledge and duty of the shellbacks to conduct an initiation of the polywogs, subject to the oversight and approval of King Neptune. In my time aboard ships, I only saw one individual that refused to submit to the initiation. He became known as a bastard shellback and was scorned and somewhat shunned from that time on by the crew.
Amateur radio has long been a cohesive fraternity, held together by common experience and a common foundation. CW is the oldest mode followed by AM phone, then SSB. Along the way, RTTY became popular with some. Then amateur TV, both fast and slow scan. Then satelites. Then came the digital modes and they're still comming. All along the way, cw remained a licensing requirement and remains popular today because it affords one the opportunity to work dx that would be impossible otherwise.Many, many of us had no or little interest in it. Yet we willingly set about learning it with little or no grumbling, even if we never intended to use it. In the late '80's, we began to sense a faction arising that wanted to reduce the requirement to 5 wpm. I remember being asked at the Roanoke ,Va. hamfest around '88 or '89, "How do you feel about this?" I stated that I would not oppose it. As we can all see, it became the order of the day. Newcomers continued in the door to amateur radio, however, with a reduced cw requirement. 5 wpm was extremely easy compared to 13 or even 20 wpm. But that wasn't enough. For the first time in amateur radio, we developed a class, rather large in numbers, that was content to occupy the 50 mhz. and above spectrum with no desire to upgrade to HF priviledges unless they could have it on their terms. That meant "no cw." Some became very outspoken and even vociferious, a few even rabid in their rejection of cw, and in their rejection of amateur radio as it had been traditionally known. They made no bones about it, they rejected the past and past generations of hams and raised the ire of not just a few "old timers." Is it any wonder? Yet, there has remained, up to this moment, those who just went quietly about learning cw, at the reduced rate, and upgraded to higher priviledges. The more outspoken agitators have distinguished themselves much as the "bastard shellback." And they have produced a backlash against their cause; have created a class distinction in amateur radio ,called, "us and them." They have done great harm to amateur radio, they have permanently fractured it by thumbling their noses at those of the past. In their "youthful zeal" they have failed to recognize that they could have gotten their way, had they gone about it properly and quietly. Youth(and in this sense, youth isn't necessarily chronological, but more about being a new ham rather than a statement of age)often fails to recognize that there are other ways to the desired objective rather than busting down the front door. But that takes age ,thought and maturity. These same ones also fail to recognize that increased prosperity and lower entrance requirements have made it so easy to become licensed now, that some 10 year olds have obtained Extra licenses and it is not uncommon to see Extras asking questions that were once inately known and understood by Novices. The prosperity has allowed many to begin setting up sophisticated HF stations before they have even learned the most elementary things about doing it. What does it say about our highest class of license, our "expert" license, when a 10 year old isn't even old enough to form a coherent outlook on life yet? Whether you like it or not, the picture many "old timers" are getting, is a look at amateur radio in a real decline. Is it any wonder that some are disgruntled? Or critical? How many of you new comers have ever listened to ,understood and integrated the words to the Crosby,Stills,Nash and Young song, "Teach Your Children Well" into your outlook? A lot of newcomers talk about Elmers. They constantly complain about there not being enough Elmers. There have never been a lot of Elmers. And to the extent there was, Elmer was more of a fictional character who sort of represented the teacher in the "teacher/student" relationship. The teacher was often a combination of authors of books and magazines, and magazine articles we read and ham acquaintances that we stood in awe of or in some way looked up to, or were inspired by. Our parents didn't teach us to be helpless and we often learned how to find the answers by taking the bull by the horns and teaching ourselves. Our parents taught us that "God helps those who help themselves." We were also taught that we should keep our mouths shut and our eyes and ears open. Its hard to observe the antics and specious reasonings of some of the newcomers and not feel a sense of rejection from them and towards them.
Yet, even now, to the extent that you don't do your best to alienate the oldtimers, I'll bet you money that they would be willing to accept newcomers graciously and even to help them.
I have no answers for the truly antisocial types among us. Avoidance and FCC enforcement action are two likely possible ways to deal with them, as appropriate.
I doubt that the oldtimers are as mean as some of the newcomers think. But then they didn't learn how to be so fragile and thin skinned as "modernism" has taught newer generations to be.
Posted by
WA4DOU on 2003-01-26
W O W
Posted by
KE4RWS on 2003-01-26
WHY OH WHY!!
Why is it that every darn survey question has to become a CW vs. No-CW debate on here. I could care less if they removed the requirement or not i'm having fun most of the time with the priviledges i have, it doesn't mean that nobody would use it anymore either.
Even if they remove it from being a requirement at WRC03 the ARRL has it's head so far up its A$$ that it won't give up on letting it go. And we also know how slow the government moves on something, the FCC will probably take years to finally remove it from the licensing requirements.
I say give up and move on, i gave up on learning CW again, and i'm rebuilding my shack to emphasis weak signal VHF and UHF, and even a bit of the microwave bands. I'm also busy with putting up my own UHF repeater, we don't have any UHF coverage after the last one was taken out by lightning and given up on, i enjoy building stuff and homebrewing what i can, and i'm currently putting it together out of old motorola gear for the fun of it. Any lids show up on my repeater they can forget about giving anyone a hard time.
I know i can pass the General written exam, i've already done it more than once, so if and when they remove the CW requirement i'll just drop into a test session somewhere and take the test again. I highly doubt that the testing requirement is going to be removed before my current certificate of completion for the General written test expires.
73,
Scott, KBØNLY
PS: Geez guys dont get so hot under the collar, turn down the volume, turn up the squelch, or spin the VFO!!
Posted by
KB0NLY on 2003-01-25
Why?
Because some people think they're better than others, and when it gets pushed in your face some people don't like it.
Posted by
KE4RWS on 2003-01-25
come on now
If you will go back to the start of this survey you will find the code no code debate was started again by the no-coder's.
for some reason these people have to use every forum to get on their soapbox and proclaim code operators are elitist and a step above others. I for one am a supporter of keeping the code requirement simply as a means to keep anti-social give me gang off of the higher frequencies, we already have enough problems there without adding fuel to the fire.
Posted by
THEWISEONE on 2003-01-25
Good Ole Boys
I think the "Code vs no code" issue has nothing to do with it. The way people behave on our ham bands has to do with respect for each other (or the lack thereof for some people).
Apart from the jammers and profanity users (those are just crazy dudes which our FCC tax dollars should take care of, I tune them out quickly) there are two kinds of behavior which I see as a real danger to our hobby because it is such a turnoff for newcomers.
It has to do with all the "well-established nets" operated by bunches of good 'ole boys who know each other already for years, and do not appreciate newcomers that try to join. The newcomer is literally treated as an "outlander", by very rude behavior from the boys. I see (hear) this happening on numerous frequencies where those ole-boys nets are being conducted. I'm sure we all know our examples of such nets.
Interesting sidenote here, is that those ole boys must all have passed their 13WPM+ code tests at one time. But I can't say it made them a better ham, on the contrary.
The other thing that I really dislike (and that unfortunately is difficult to avoid once you are in QSO already) is when those ole-boys nets start, they act and behave as if they own the frequency, "Because we have been here for so many years". If the user of the particular frecuency does not move quickly, he is welcomed with a barrage of jamming, profanity, gutteral noises and other obnoxious behavior.
As an example of this, one should listen at 21.430 MHz during the day. The 21.420 to 21.440 MHz section of that band is frequently used by US hams that do not have English as their first language and try to contact their country of birth. The 21.430 ole-boys will make sure that such traffic certainly is not possible on "their" frequency. Very disturbing indeed.
As a ham community we should be much more alert against this kind of behavior, and take the right action where appropriate. This should not be too difficult because the callsigns of such ole boys are well known, no reason to list them here.
Hope to meet you on the bands, on a frequency clean of the boys of course.
73, Loek "Luke" d'Hont AC5XP
Posted by
AC5XP on 2003-01-25
In Reply . . . .
"For some reason these people have to use every forum to get on their soapbox and proclaim code operators are elitist and a step above others".
In response to the above statement made earlier, the "elitist" attitude is brought on by cw operators all by themselves. When these same cw operators get on here stating "cw is ham radio", "cw is the real mans mode", cw ties ham radio together", "cw operators have more class", "if you don't know cw then your a lazy amateur operator". These are but a few statements I've seen here in this thread but also in other related threads here on eHam.net. The fact that some people make mention of the elitist attitudes has direct relation to this survey. After all, it is these elitist attitudes that affects others participation in the amateur radio hobby, and sometimes even pushes them away completely. If you think people are going to suppress their thoughts on all the elitist attitudes in amateur radio then they shouldn't have asked the question this survey covers. I think people are really getting tired of hearing all the bullcrap about how cw miraculously makes you a better person, when in fact it is merely a "club" of individuals who've proclaimed themselves to be "better" than all the other amateur operators out there. Having cw ability in no way means your better than ANYONE else. Just as my ability with packet doesn't make me better than those who don't know anything about it.
Posted by
KE4RWS on 2003-01-25
Im pukin
Cw again ? blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. This Summer it wont be a component any longer, so i guess you all have to get your digs in now.
Well bye bye Cw and good dam ridance to an archaic dinosaur.
And to the morons who blame all on CBers theres more hams on cb around here than on the HF or Vhf bands .
WHY!!!! because good cbers have something most of the old assholes on here dont have is class and they dont judge.
SO FLAME ME NOW O IT DO IT DO IT .
I can take it. Vietnam didnt kill me and this bunch sure as hell wont.
Posted by
KC0KJF on 2003-01-24
KC0KJF
Bart, Perhaps the requirement will go and you guys can all finally upgrade. Morse operations will not cease even if it does change--those of us who operate the mode will just keep working CW. I'm guessing you're not an old Technician Plus or you would have upgraded. As a Technician, you've never used the mode so you don't know a thing about other than you don't like it. Those of us who use the mode understand it's value. I'm willing to bet that a number of people will eventually migrate to CW to chase DX or get away from the crowded phone sub-bands. Either way, the mode lives on. Good luck with your upgrade. 73 de Tom, K4NR
Posted by
K4NR on 2003-01-24
cw cw cw
as a tech i cant wait till i upgrade but things like this question make me wonder if making it easyer to become a ham was a good choice yes it brught in many more people that helps keep it alive but would returning to a higher level rid us of the trouble makers? we will never know all i know is there is a place for cw and if people would take the time to learn about radio maby they would understand
Posted by
KC0KFG on 2003-01-24
bart KC0KJF
bart why are you looking to up grade if you have no interest in cw ?
Posted by
KC0KFG on 2003-01-24
Same old thing
You guys have to come up with better slogans than that . . .
Posted by
KE4RWS on 2003-01-24
Rising Above It
I had a couple of run ins with a couple of guys on the air, and the easiest thing to do is remember it's a Hobby. Unfortunately others do not look like it in that way. These incidents I mention happened on local repeaters, and the best thing to do is mention it to the Repeater Trustees or Organization running the Repeaters. In one instance, the repeater trustees shut down the repeater whenever this particular bozo came on, after a couple of days, he got the point and was never heard on the repeater after that. An other instance, I stopped joining the local traffic net, mostly because the Net Manager would berate some guys and lecture them on how they checked in, yet he would let others with worse habits slide. He complained about procedure, yet several times he would not follow the same procedure he berated someone else for not following procedure. I mentioned this to a couple of the club members who sponsor the repeater. Since then, I and other hams choose not to participate in that net, but I will take and handle traffic from and to other nets, by choice, if I feel like it. And I still am active on that repeater,and if the group let's him in, they will probably point out how to follow procedure.
Posted by
N1RWC on 2003-01-24
CW forever
What do you mean this summer when cw is gone?
Yeah right would like to stay and chat but I have to meet santa and the tooth fairy in a few minutes
Posted by
THEWISEONE on 2003-01-24
lead by example
I said YES on this survey. WHY?
Because I have dealt with fellow hams who LEAD BY EXAMPLE. Dont like how some lid is operating? Maybe they dont know better show them the right way, dont complain or insult them. Do it right yourself and set the example. THAT is how ham radio has been for close to a century, and that is the way it will prosper.
Scott
Posted by
N9TGW on 2003-01-24
QRM Procedures
One of the procedures I was taught in the army with regards to any type of jamming is to continue operating as if the jamming did not occur. I had a problem with QRM last night, but was able to finish the QSO (CW) and give the other op a 73. I do not let lids ruin my enjoyment of this wonderful hobby. I'm not a CW bigot either, I work SSB and FM, but I find the ops who work CW tend to be better procedure wise. You have to think about what you're going to send before you hit the key or the paddle and this usually filters out the lids and the bad language.
Kevin
KC2KFC
-Who wished he had a nickel for everytime someone said "KILO CHARLIE TWO KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN". hi hi
Posted by
KC2KFC on 2003-01-23
Getting Better!
I have been licensed since 1964. So at 51, I am becoming one of the old timers. Once in a while, I miss the less crowded bands, more conversational nature of ham radio (QSOs versus contest contacts), etc. However, I do see ham radio and ham behavior on an up-trend. Riley Hollingsworth has done a lot to clean up rudeness on 75. 40 has always been great. I find a more "live and let live" attitude on 20 - 10. Very often, I hear stations carefully checking a frequency before calling CQ or moving a QSO to avoid QRM. I hear apologies when appropriate. I even hear people willingly move their QSOs or nets to a slightly different frequency in order to avoid interference.
I am very pleased to see the influx of newcomers, particularly those who are now discovering HF for the first time. Despite the availability of worldwide communications on the internet, they are really enjoying the challenge of HF propagation. They're also generally willing to learn. Unlike some who have gone before them, they listen a lot to learn protocol before transmitting.
Of course, there are still a few rude or vulgar people who seem to congregate on the same frequency talking to the same people every day. That's where the VFO dial, cascaded filters and IF-DSP come in handy.
I am seldom embarrassed when I invite someone to stop into my shack and listen. Lets talk up ham radio!
73 de Bill / K8DXX
Posted by
K8DXX on 2003-01-23
Getting Better!
I have been licensed since 1964. So at 51, I am becoming one of the old timers. Once in a while, I miss the less crowded bands, more conversational nature of ham radio (QSOs versus contest contacts), etc. However, I do see ham radio and ham behavior on an up-trend. Riley Hollingsworth has done a lot to clean up rudeness on 75. 40 has always been great. I find a more "live and let live" attitude on 20 - 10. Very often, I hear stations carefully checking a frequency before calling CQ or moving a QSO to avoid QRM. I hear apologies when appropriate. I even hear people willingly move their QSOs or nets to a slightly different frequency in order to avoid interference.
I am very pleased to see the influx of newcomers, particularly those who are now discovering HF for the first time. Despite the availability of worldwide communications on the internet, they are really enjoying the challenge of HF propagation. They're also generally willing to learn. Unlike some who have gone before them, they listen a lot to learn protocol before transmitting.
Of course, there are still a few rude or vulgar people who seem to congregate on the same frequency talking to the same people every day. That's where the VFO dial, cascaded filters and IF-DSP come in handy.
I am seldom embarrassed when I invite someone to stop into my shack and listen. Lets talk up ham radio!
73 de Bill / K8DXX
Posted by
K8DXX on 2003-01-23
K2KFC
you sir are right. The worse thing you can do when a LID is trying to jam you is to acknowledge the idiot.Over the years of being a CW op I find very few times that someone can actually jam out the desired signal to the point of no copy. The built in brain filters we all have work better than any passband or dsp filtering out there. pretend they don't exist pretty soon they get tired and find someplace else to play. Has anyone on here ever ran across the
CW bandit? This dude will actually attempt to use your callsign and work the station you are working. I understand his days are numbered as last time he was on the air he was DFed to the point a couple of the locals think they now know who he is. One thing I can say is the internet sure can be a very usefull tool in tracking down these clowns.
Posted by
W8OB on 2003-01-23
Just say CW.......
Using CW, it would take so long to say anything rude it's much easier to say something nice! HI! Actually, CW ops have more class, what can I say? ---.. ...--
Posted by
K6SDW on 2003-01-23
More Class?
Ohhhhh boy. See what I mean??
Posted by
KE4RWS on 2003-01-23
Still Enjoy it
Returning to active amateur radio after a few years, I still enjoy it but now only work CW. I scan around the band and look for interesting conversations in any mode. If I come across something that is not to my liking, I turn a few knobs and they are gone. I just wish telemarketers were as easily muted. To quote Joe Walsh, "Nothing matters and what if it did"?
Posted by
NI1V on 2003-01-22
Power Users
It seems that the thrust of this is in two parts, CW bigots and Power Monsters. I'll take on the power guys. Yes, when the band is down, I use an amp but, I'm proud to say, that 85 percent of the time the group I join on 80 are barefoot. Now the guys about 6 KC's up from us are a different story. Strange, We keep moving down and they keep following. While still new to the hobby, I joined them one time (haven't since) and was chastised because I wasn't hitting them at least 20 over.
For those of you new to the game, as stated many time before me, listen for awhile, you find the group that fits your needs. Unfortunately, the 10 percent of sour grapes will probably never go away. BUT DON'T LET THEM RUN YOU AWAY FROM A GREAT HOBBY.
KA5G
Posted by
KA5G on 2003-01-21
CW Bigots?
Its a certain segment of the newcomers who don't wish to have to comply with anything as far as licensing goes. In fact, some of them don't even think they should have to learn anything of a technical nature. Those who express these sentiments are unworthy of entrance into amateur radio. And that makes me a bigot! Fine!
Posted by
CURMUDGEON on 2003-01-21
So what
No I don't let others peoples opinions or actions drive me off the air or change the way I operate any more than I let other peoples driving affect how I drive (OK, so I am getting more defensive). The streets & highways are a whole lot worse the the bands, and out there you can get hurt!
Posted by
K0XU on 2003-01-21
Power Happy Lids
I thought we were only supposed to use the amount of power necessary for contacts. I really get irritated at some of the "old timers" using their amplifiers at "full power" and I think some of them use more than legal. They do this on 10 meters when 10 watts goes around the world. Also they are splattering over about 10 kc while doing this. We could probably get twice the qso's on 20 meters with no qrm if these power happy lids would only use power required.
Posted by
KB4EZ on 2003-01-20
Posted by
WA2BOB on 2003-01-20
If you are not happy with the way new hams are operating....
be an Elmer, guide them to proper operating proceedures. And it's not what you tell them but how, don't brow beat them be kind gently but firmly push them in the proper direction.
Also set a good example, before I got my ticket I listened to the local repeaters via my scanner to get an idea of what was proper, fortunately there are some good operators around here for me to learn from.
In closing I am enjoying the hobby and I don't let people effect my pleasure with it, I have a VFO and a on/off switch, I can always go read a good book, or go out for a coffee with my friends if I do not like whats going on.
73 de Keith
Posted by
KC8TCQ on 2003-01-20
New Website
Hello folks, No the bad attitudes of others don't get me down to the point of despair any more, I enjoy my hobby as much as I can.
Those that may detract from it are pittied. I have put a new website online at http://www.qsl.net/vk3ukf/index.html
The old one broke. Cheers and beers.
Kevin VK3UKF.
Posted by
VK3UKF on 2003-01-18
DIT DI-DI-DIT DIT..........
I spend a decent amount of time on 10,15,20,and 40m, both CW and phone, mostly listening. All of my contacts, and 95% of my listening time, have been enjoyable. I actually think threads like this misrepresent Amateur Radio by making it look worse than it really is. Reading something like the arguments folks have here could drive someone interested in this hobby far away, never to look back.
I don't expect everyone to get along and play nice, but if we can't represent our hobby in a better light to prospective new operators, I fear the "demise of Amateur Radio" will one day become a self fufilling prophesy.
73, and if you hear me on CW, bear with my 7-13 WPM, I'm working on it! =)
Pat AB2OL
Posted by
AB2OL on 2003-01-17
ALL Concerned
I just read through the whole list of responses and am amazed at how silly adults can be. Of course, there are lots of level heads out there too. I am a new ham and proud that I finally made the time to get my tickets. I like the hobby and have not experienced anyone yet who could irritate me once I used the VFO or on/off switch. As of this forum.... i am LMAO.
Posted by
KG4TIK on 2003-01-17
ALL Concerned
I just read through the whole list of responses and am amazed at how silly adults can be. Of course, there are lots of level heads out there too. I am a new ham and proud that I finally made the time to get my tickets. I like the hobby and have not experienced anyone yet who could irritate me once I used the VFO or on/off switch. As of this forum.... i am LMAO.
Posted by
KG4TIK on 2003-01-17
Definitely!!!
I answered YES-
Yes, the wonderful attitudes and personalities and operating practices I've thus far encountered have really affected my enjoyment- I enjoy them very much!
Even the militant attitudes, hey, are entertaining.
I even was entertained by a bunch of jerks sending their running unidentified commentary one evening while a DX station was running a pile-up at a slow pace- I found it entertaining, because hey, it was enlivening, even if rude- they did not severely maliciously interfere to the extent that contacts were halted, and eventually they stopped. They got bored I hope and moved onto more productive avenues.
Geez, I've actually heard people get ugly, and although nasty, hey, it's DRAMA, a main reason why TV, Movies, Novels, hold our interest.
It's a human drama, but I'm certain, that Operating Practices of the vast majority of people who key radios I hear on the air, result in my enjoyment of it all, and so it definitely affects my enjoyment of the hobby, and I keep coming back for more.
So on that bent,
CW Forever!
The Jedi will never die.
Also...
I absolutely love listening to an excellent and commanding phone operator.
Talent is talent, CW or phone. Awsome phone operating is always a treat to witness. To this I aspire.
In the mean-time, until I find the vast energy reserves which excellent phone demands...
CW For All, for-ever.
Attitude rules.
Posted by
W3DCG on 2003-01-17
Just like real life
I feel sorry for those with such thin skin that they let others affect their own enjoyment of the hobby.
Just like in real life, There are those who
annoy, harass, ignore, And in general are real jerks on the air.
Don't dwell on it. Move on. Become an Elmer yourself and get some new people licensed to
talk to. I don't care if you just got your
first ticket two weeks ago, You can go out
and recruit others. YOU know a lot more about the hobby than those with zero knowledge. Lots of O.F.'s harass or ignore
you? Find your own group of like minded
operators. UPGRADE so you can move to more
frequencies and find others to talk to.
Just like going to a party (Or any other social gathering) You can be a wall flower
and feel sorry for yourself, Or you can go
out with a smile and make new friends.
You will get much better results by being friendly to all, And if the jerks persist,
just ignore them. (Just like in "real" life)
Posted by
K9KJM on 2003-01-16
KE4GTI
You sir have distinguished yourself as the archetype of everything that many of us find deplorable in a certain segment of the newcomers to amateur radio today. Your opinions are unworthy of any consideration by anyone. That is why so few folks are even responding to you and I would like to encourage even them to stop.
Posted by
CURMUDGEON on 2003-01-16
catfight
reading all you bozos argue back and forth on this forum is more entertaining than a good ole 75 meter cat fight.
Posted by
WW8MM on 2003-01-16
Control
After reading all these comments, I am certainly glad my radios have "off" buttons.
Posted by
N8PEP on 2003-01-16
GTI is back
I voted Yes, and I agree with W5HTW. KE4GTI, it seems you get all bent out of shape anytime anyone says anything about Technician Hams and CBers in the same breath. With the reaction you display, is it possible that you are a CBer in sheep's clothing? You carried on and whined on the last thread about the code. Now you get all wound up when somebody bashes CB type practices on the ham bands. You sound like some disadvanteded whiner who really goes on a tear when things are not going his way. Did it ever occur to you to stop and think there a large majority of hams who absolutely detest outlaw CBers, what that bunch of renegades represents, and they have done to pollute our bands. Roger beeps, echo boxes, "personal here is", "what's yer twenty" and such radio practices instantly marks a person as a CBer, and as such has no place on ham radio. You want to know who set us up as judge and jury? 100 years of tradition and and a desire to accheive quality communications. Yes, we are better than the masses you portay yourself as defending. We accheive things in life, we earn the respect of fellow hams, and belong to the deserving. Please, don't upgrade, we don't need any more pathetic lids like you.
Posted by
W4MGY on 2003-01-15
Change the channel !!
Yea, there are occasionally bothersome ops and practices... there probably always will be. I just spin the knob (qsy) or change modes. For a breath of fresh air, try 29 Mhz AM. The gentlemans band - use a good microphone.
Posted by
WB9YCJ on 2003-01-15
NB6Z writes: >Didn't we just go through this recently
>with a survey on contesting! >I can easily
>overlook the operating practices of a few
>rude or mentally challenged hams, but when
>it becomes an organized asault, the
>majority must give way to the minority...
----- Of course, no discussion on operating practice would be complete without an obligatory attack on contesters being the rudest, most mentally challenged hams on the air today. Not to mention they usually have menial low-paying jobs, drug problems, hit their children and drive too damn fast. What a drain on society.
Posted by
W4PA on 2003-01-15
W4PA
Scott, I like the satirical approach! I'll look for you this weekend. 73 de Tom, K4NR
Posted by
K4NR on 2003-01-15
to: W4PA
Wow, don't be so hard on yourself... Nobody is perfect. ;-)
Posted by
NB6Z on 2003-01-15
LIGHTEN UP ?
The rig here is....
The name here is....
The weather here is....
The rig here is.....
Thank goodness we've come a long way since this kind of hamspeak was the norm. If what I'm hearing on the airwaves offends or irritates me from time-to-time, so be it. Big deal. The complainers on this kind of topic typically have way too much time and $$$ invested in ham radio. Fella's: It's a hobby!
Posted by
WB9GKZ on 2003-01-15
LIGHTEN UP ?
WB9GKZ, I can't say that I've ever heard "10-4" or "What's yer 20?". Tthe "here" thing is everywhere. QSOs on CW have the same sound. "Rig hr is..."..."wx hr is...". Where else would the rig or the weather be? Rather than "name hr is Tom"..."op Tom" is much easier and faster on CW. I hardly think you can blame all of it on the amateurs that came over from CB. That leads me to a question...when and why did that creep into usage? 73 de Tom, K4NR
Posted by
K4NR on 2003-01-15
Hamspeak
I can take a lot of the wierd ham speak I hear on the bands but the ONE that never fails to amuse me is " we operate only this or that" "we use a vertical antenna". Who in the hell is this WE guy????? Or does the operator simply have a mouse in his pocket?
Years ago in the army once in awhile I would visit the MARS station and op a bit of AM, the place was run by a very sour master sarge, If you used the wrong phonetics or op procedure you received a butt hole puckering chewing out on the spot and didn't matter if the mike was open or not. One quickly learns that Q sigs and other improper op procedures won't fly there
Posted by
W8OB on 2003-01-15
pile ups
Did you ever notice in either a CW or voice mode pile up how many of the stations have the same callsign endings. The DX station sez call ending alpha delta and there still is a couple of dozen Lids calling even though their calls end in everything but alpha delta. Go figure.
Posted by
W8OB on 2003-01-15
Pile Ups
W8OB, You have to really laugh at those people. What really get me is when the station called for "AD" and works "GI". That only encourages the behavior. The same goes for for allowing tail-ending. Tail-ending works great when it's done right. Must of the time it just lets the pile get out of control. Does anyone remember VK0MM? He knew how to control a pile-up (some would argue it was too harsh). He would be working EU and some US station would call in. He would send the US callsign telling them "NIL" and then delete any earlier QSOs. Same went for dupes--if you duped him, he deleted both QSOs. I always wondered if he actually did delete the QSOs, but I took no chances. I worked him on 20 CW and 15 Phone. 73 de Tom, K4NR
Posted by
K4NR on 2003-01-15
operating practices??
If I run across one more "Closed" repeater, I think I'll go back to CB. I don't care about what investment individuals have in operating "closed" repeaters, but I do care when they hog one frequency, as an amateur, when there is an abundent of availible vhf,uhf business/commercial frequencies availible. ( business's have been migrating upwards for years now, leaving a lot of under used freq.).
This makes no sense, and doesn't seem to be part of the "Amateur Spirit".
Posted by
K8JX on 2003-01-15
Meet W4MGY!
My are we not brave safely behind the keyboard in the dark little shack :-) I do not understand why you hate other human beings who happen to use CB, as long as they confine their OPs TO CB? Define "carrying on and/or whining" The code survey is over. This one was supposed to be about operating practices and how, if at all they effect our amateur experience. Personally, I've not used CB and really never heard roger beeps. Maybe a half dozen times in 9 plus years I've put down the Motorola mic at work (where 10 codes are used) and ACCIDENTLY said "10-4", usually apologizing that I had been on public service all night. I defend everyone from egotistic, intolerant and ignorant assholes such as you. Also, NO ONE set you or I up to be judge and jury based on "tradition". It's a HOBBY w/ limited service abilities now. Many of the things I've seen you panicked control freaks bitch about are ILLEGAL. You (we), which by the way you phrased that sounds JUST like what previous wind bags have been complaining about. ("WE *ACCHEIVE* things.) Do you know I tend to ACHIEVE things, but maybe it's sweeter to *ACCHEIVE*? Son, I walk a higher path. You earn respect, do you? You EARN the title of a judgemental facist NOTHING. If you truly represent the average operator I would have no reason to upgrade, however, rest ASSURED you have no part to play in that decision ;-) Also, while we "call names", just how do you lable someone a *LID* when you've never worked OR EVEN heard them? What a hate filled group!
Steve
Posted by
KE4GTI on 2003-01-15
K8JX
Ever heard of CTCSS? Using BOTH encode and decode hurts no one. Half the state here uses the same frequencies for EMS, just different PLs. I believe it would work for amateur as well. 73
Steve
Posted by
KE4GTI on 2003-01-15
Reply to GTI
GTI, You seen to have a need for everything spelled out for you. Do you have to justify everything? Maybe being a cop has distorted your thinking. You have to have all the answers. Appearantly, you have never encountered a Lid before, and you think all CBer's operate within their band. I will overlook the possibility you might not have been a ham for very long: so I can understand the possibility you might not have been exposed to the stuff we hear on HF. Yes, I am intolerant of the ignorant stuff I hear on CB, and yes everyday it is enroaching more into ham radio. You can have this thread, trash people's comments to your heart's desire; but I stand behind what others have said about the the stupid practices CBers bring into the ham radio hobby. You, sir, are the kind of people who affect one's enjoyment of ham radio.
Posted by
W4MGY on 2003-01-15
What, me worry?
I don't seem to have that problem very often. First, I operate CW only ... that leaves only rabid contesters and DXers as potential offenders. Second, I hang out on the WARC bands, mostly 30m, which eliminates the contesters. Third, my radio has a VFO, an array of filters, IF shift, and finally ... an on/off button. That takes care of the rest!
Posted by
KD1JT on 2003-01-15
KE4GTI
I see you are right back to your usual stuff. Are you capable of disussing anything without blowing a fuse? I really think you like the attention. Next you acuse him of using his equipment in an illegal manner. Maybe you can run him through NCIC since he might be "jamming" your official transmissions.
Posted by
CW-FAN on 2003-01-15
Who Cares
While you guys bitch about code and the bands and all that crap i will be in the cw bands ssb bands haveing fun,This is what the hobby is about.Who gives a shit who done 13 or 20 wpm code or extra class or what ever the hell.I damm sure dont get a life stop the bitching and get on the air wave have fun.Rember your only a ham once in this life,Hay when we die we might all just be novice again.....
Posted by
N2BR on 2003-01-14
N5ZTP
Terry, yes your license expired on March 24
of 2002. You no longer have the right to use
the callsign that you posted, so stop. I can
see why you enjoy your CB so much.... You
don't have to follow any rules or exhibit
any morals.
Have a nice life , without Amateur Radio.
73 (the Ham version, not the CB version)
Tim
Posted by
WA4PTZ on 2003-01-14
Hello Tom. As I said, my experience with ham has been excellent. The only negative issue I've seen involves pile-ups where operators intentionally cause interference through arguments, odd noises and stupid comments. It’s not a problem for me. When the fools are present I don't participate.
Posted by
KG6AMW on 2003-01-14
DX Police
Nobody likes them and they usually create more QRM than the poor station that failed to set the split (or does not realize the operation is split). Last night VP8? was on 14247 running simplex. You could hear him go back to someone, but the lids just kept calling. The first time I called he came back to me, but the lids were loud enough I decided to wait. He eventually got tired of waiting for me and worked someone else (he should have held his ground and worked the station he was trying to work rather than letting the pile control him). The second time, I just worked him over the pile (1500 watts into 10 dB of gain sure helps--sometimes it nice to be clean and loud). I finished my QSO before some of them figured it out. Split operation would have made it easier and I'm not sure why the DX station chose not to go split. I usually just work the DX and more on rather than getting irritated with it. Have fun es CUL de Tom, K4NR
Posted by
K4NR on 2003-01-14
Part of the fun!
The poor practices and procedures often found in DX pileups just make it more challenging, and part of the fun. If every DX station in the world fell into your laps, you probably would no longer enjoy this aspect of the hobby. The "pileup police" and other nitwits have been around as long as DXing has. I consider it all training for contests, which push operating prowess to the limit.
Posted by
WB2WIK on 2003-01-14
Split?
How can any dx'er not recognize split operation?
Posted by
CURMUDGEON on 2003-01-14
DX Police
CURMUDGEON, I have to agree that any true DXer should recognize split operations. On the other hand, how many times have you heard people calling on the DX frequency? I'm sure every new DXer has made the mistake. Of course all the DX Police are yelling "UP UP LID UP" on phone. You would think that everyone on the frequency would check their VFOs. Lately I'm hearing some real slow CW on DX piles. The DX is going at 30+, the rest of the pile is up, and the slow code op is right on top of the DX. The DX Police are sending "UP UP LID UP" at 30+. I know I've had to laugh a time or two. Sometimes the DX does not help the situation by not saying UP or giving some indication that the operation is split. WB2WIK, I happen to agree with your comments, but I also understand how frustrating it can be for newer HF ops. I remember having 100 watts and wire antennas. DX was hard to get. At the same time, it sure taught me many things about DXing. Now that I have a big station, I don't have to call more than once too often. It's not all the station--it's a combination of the equipment and the skills developed over time. My elmer used to tell me that "DXing was all about listening". 73 de Tom, K4NR
Posted by
K4NR on 2003-01-14
It IS all about listening
Tom, I agree. DXing should be all about listening, and because it's a sport to me, I don't use packet clusters or spotting data of any kind during casual operations. Much more fun to tune around and find the stuff. However, during contests I do use the spotting data, as it's almost impossible to compete without doing so. One problem related to technology is that so many ops nowadays use spotting info all the time, even for casual operating, that they often find themselves in a pileup presuming that the spotted station is under it, which may not be the case. "WFWL" is the rule of the day (work first, worry later) but some of these guys make the contact, then spend the next 20 minutes asking "who's the DX?" since they have no idea who they just worked. And of course, the DX are 99% to blame, since at the end of each contact, they only say "QRZ?" and don't identify. Sending their callsign in lieu of the "QRZ" would completely eliminate this problem, and take zero extra time. I have no idea why so many DX ops are so ignorant to this.
Posted by
WB2WIK on 2003-01-14
Operating
Yes. Hearing things like "The first personal here is ..." and "What's your twenty?" and "My name is Bob, QSL?" and "yes, Bob, and my name is John, QSL?" does indeed bug me. But we made the Technicain class license the entry level/training ticket, so guess we are reaping what we sewed.
I also disagree with the freedom of speech boys who think "Well I gotta go take a S____" is ordinary ham talk.
Still, I do manage to find good operating, so I'm still on the air and avoiding the CB/Freeband/Freedomers spirit.
73
ed
Posted by
W5HTW on 2003-01-14
Over-Ovahhh
I've gone 100% cw and find it quite tolerable. There are still a few inconsiderate big shots who like to throw their weight around--you know, squeezing out the little guys just because they can. It's the same old story: "The bigger the signal, the smaller the..."(uh, how about, "self-image"?)
20 meter ssb (and for that matter, all of ham radio) is populated with far too many right wingers. You know the types--they make $40,000 a year and still believe that Bush's and Rumsfeld's interests somehow coincide with their own. Show them the flag and they get all "misty," as Maynard G. Krebs used to say. America: Love it or Lump it!
But, then, why would anyone expect that a guy like Noam Chomsky would waste his time on the ham bands? But you can bet if he did, he'd be a CW guy.
See you in Bagdad,
D the D
Posted by
WA2CWW on 2003-01-14
Survey Question
I know I "whined" about the last survey
question. This time I want to whine about
the answers. Isn't "NO" the same as
"I rise above it and don't let it bother
me"? I advise those looking at the results
to add these columns together to get a
better perspective of the results.
73, Bill WS4Y
Posted by
WS4Y on 2003-01-14
Survey question
Using the local repeaters appears to be reserved for certain folks in my area (Puget Sound). I have been ignored or just plain unlucky at getting others to recognize my call and respond. I get about one out of 50 calls answered. I feel this is not quite normal. I am a new (re-tread after 40+ years) ham so I'm not exactly up on all the protocall. I have had hams get on the air and tell me I was do something wrong. I thank them for their observations, explain my situation and go on. Some of them will then continue and hold a QSO with me. Others just sign off. Forty years ago I don't seem to recall as many rude hams. Are my perceptions wrong? I hope not as this is not the way to get new members into the hobby, especially youngsters. As an old 'geezer' I just let it roll off my back and push on. I figure that I'll get it right enough to learn eventually.
Tom K7CSM
Posted by
K7CSM on 2003-01-13
Offensive HR Content !!
The most offensive use of ham radio that I hear regularly is all the religion on the airways. This seems concentrated with USA hams. Most countries have enough sense to keep voodoo off amateur radio. Ham radio is limited to content that does not have sufficient value to justify the use of commercial or other services. A lot of USA hams must assess their religion as being of low value because there it is on our radio dials every day.
Posted by
K8NQC on 2003-01-13
Yes, but not turning me away
I would say sometimes yes, but not turning me away. On 2meters in the north east it can be very personal on some repeaters. On HF there are some things that do bother me. I won't mention because it will surly fire off those who think they can do nothing wrong. What it is doing is driving me down into the CW portion of the bands, which i can see becomming my sole mode on HF in the near future.
Posted by
KE1MB on 2003-01-13
affecting my enjoyment??
YYYYYYEEEEEEESSSSSSS, but only on SSB/fm.All in all, the EX/Current CBer population licensed as Hams, are doing a excellent job of ruining Ham bands. CW TODAY, CW TOMORROW, CW FOREVER.
Posted by
K7LCS on 2003-01-13
Donuts
Donuts
Posted by
AA3WS on 2003-01-13
It Did
I quit radio because of the some scum CB types in the region. I stoped all operations and sold everything. After a year i realized I enjoy the hobby and would not let loosers bother me anymore. I just turn the vfo. And I also do not operate on 2/440 anymore it seems most of the wannabes were on there. And I dont miss it HF is where its at anyhow for me.
Posted by
W9JCM on 2003-01-13
Contesting...
Didn't we just go through this recently with a survey on contesting! I can easily overlook the operating practices of a few rude or mentally challenged hams, but when it becomes an organized asault, the majority must give way to the minority...
Posted by
NB6Z on 2003-01-13
RE: Other's practices
Ownly thee wonz that cain't spellll affect mi
enjoiment of the hobbie
. I could leave a list of words seen here on eham.net,
but actually, they -INCREASE- my enjoyment
by giving me a good laugh! All you poor
spellers out there, don't take it
personally. I mean this as a positive
comment!
Posted by WY3X on 2003-01-13try to be a good example
I do hear some operators that are outside the "norm". I think we all learn from example, so I try to operate in a manner that I think is a good example of proper etiquette. I do try to avoid ops that are rude - perhaps they will change their ways if they can't work anyone?
73'
Kevin
NL7Z
Posted by Kevin Forster on 2003-01-13Nah
Not at all. I'm not even sure there are more jerks in amateur radio today than there ever were at other times. There are lots of poor operators, but most of them don't seem to be doing anything wrong intentionally.
And I rarely find the problem on CW, or on 160 meters!
Posted by
WB2WIK on 2003-01-13
What?
Life's too short to bitch about things or worry about what other people think.
Posted by
K5DVW on 2003-01-13
Rising Above the Sludge...
I definitely see that the "No" and "I rise above it" groups are in the solid majority. That is how it should be; to ignore the ones who try to make our hobby worse off by purposely using poor operating habits.
As for the ones who left or about to leave the hobby due to the intentional poor operating habits of a few others...if you're selling your equipment dirt cheap, a few hams like myself just might be interested in what you have to get rid of!
Warren Rowe/ KM5EW
Temple, Texas
Posted by
KM5EW on 2003-01-13
Intentional interference
The only problems that I have ever encountered are with intentional interference on DX stations. It seems like some hams are upset because they can't work the DX, so they don't want anyone else to do so either. Other than that, I have never run into operating practices or attitudes that have ruined my enjoyment of operating. Yes I have run into opinions and ideas that I don't agree with, but I can get that on the Daily Democrate Propoganda Report with Rather, Brokaw, and Jennings every evening and it doesn't ruin my enjoyment of TV.
Most of the time the intentional interference goes away if you ignore it, as hard as that may be. I think the much bigger problem is RFI and other cruddy noise from all of the cheap, unshielded part 15 devices around us today.
Posted by
NE0P on 2003-01-13
DX Pileups
KG6AMW, I'm trying to understand your point about DX pileups. It is what it is--too many people all trying to work one station. I have a big station with gain on 80 through 10 meters and the legal limit. I don't have to call but once most of the time. It's the little stations creating all the QRM because they just keep calling and don't (or can't) hear the DX. Split operation helps, but it the DX should listen to see that they are not spreading their pile onto ongoing operations. Are you upset because you can't contact the DX or the nature of the pile? 73 de Tom, K4NR
Posted by
K4NR on 2003-01-13
Jerry Springer on the airwaves
I like HF, and some digi-modes. When there's a real dogfight going on on the bands, aka "Jerry Springer", I just get out the popcorn, hoist a beer and listen to the idiots for sheer entertainment. When it gets to be too much, I reach out and turn the knob. There's lots of good guys to talk to, and the others are simply around for laughs. If you knew the bozo's personally, you would see that their idiocy on the air is just a reflection of their whole life pattern. Feel sorry for their families ... Ha Ha!
Have fun,
H
Posted by
VE7AZC on 2003-01-13
equipment
When I purchase my equipment, I make sure it has the jerk proof features.
ON/OFF switch, VFO, auto notch filter and multiband antenna.
Posted by
KK6SS on 2003-01-13
Not a problem
I have too much invested in my time and experiences in this hobby to let anyone ruin it for me. I don't encounter too much bad behavior on the air first hand, so it's not much of a problem. I run mosty CW and digital, but not even on phone do I experience too much bad behavior; not to say it hasn't happened once or twice, but I don't let it get to me.
Posted by
KC0IOX on 2003-01-13
jerks
seems like to me the only jerks are the ones that dont want to admit that 20wpm is gone there is going to be a lot more hams, a lot less room,lets do the best we can do untill we get more room tnx
Posted by
KD4FTB on 2003-01-13
I ENJOY MY CB MORE THAN TRYING TO TALK TO THE LOCAL HAM SNOBS SO I LET MY LICENCE EXPIRE AND DO NOT PLAN ON RENEWING IT. CB IS STILL A LOT OF FUN IF YOU STAY AWAY FROM 19.
I KNOW YOU ARE ASKING WHAT I AM DOING LOOKING AT THIS SIGHT IF I AM NO LONGER A HAM.JUST TRYING TO DECIDE HOW TO GET RID OF THE REST OF MY HAM GEAR.
Posted by
N5ZTP on 2003-01-13
Jerks
KD4FTB, Jerks? Are you saying that anyone who can run 20 wpm is one? Many of us run 35 plus. 20 wpm is not gone--it's only gone as a requirement. When the phone sub-band is packed (QRM) with all the new hams, we'll be down on the bottom 25 running with low bandwidth. No 3 kHz needed--give me 500 Hz and I'll make QSOs worldwide with low power. It does not have to be CW although it's my favorite mode. RTTY and PSK31 also take less bandwidth. PSK31 is good under most band conditions although it degrades under back-scatter and trans-polar conditions. There are lids on both sides--don't become one of them. 73 de Tom, K4NR
Posted by
K4NR on 2003-01-13
N5ZTB
Send me a list of your gear. I may take some of it off your hands.
Posted by
K4NR on 2003-01-13
ADAM12
What difference does it make where the cw folks made their offense. The fact that it was made trying to degrade others was enough to change the attitude of other amateur radio operators in the hobby. Whether they changed attitudes on the internet or on the air is irrelevant. This survey specifically asks the question if the practices or attitudes of others affect one's enjoyment. I'm only answering honestly here. So if that sounds like a "rant" as you call it then so be it. And by the way, no one said anything about cw and it's licensing requirements so it looks like maybe you're the only one trying to stir that issue up again. But now that you mention it, your attitude on that subject tells volumes when you offically make the claim that cw is the friendliest band or mode over everything else. I'm sure many folks would strongly disagree with you on that issue. But this survey has nothing to do with what you're implying so we won't go there. I merely stated the extremist attitudes of many cw operators pushes many non-cw folks away from wanting to even learn about that mode. People will only listen to "I'm a superior amateur radio operator then you are" only so long before they write you off.
Posted by
KE4RWS on 2003-01-12
adam12 your correct
your correct 100 percent with your statement. Yes cw does have it share of poor ops but the general rule is these segments of the bands hold a lot of ex professional ops who are always glad to help someone out. Some as always want to turn this discussion into yet another place to vent his frustrations against the morse requirement, and its no wonder with such statements that getting rid of the morse requirement meets so much resistance. I answered the survey with NO simply because my radios have a device on them called a vfo and its very easy to tune to another frequency, my computer has a delete key as well. In 36 years of hamming I cannot remember one time of being treated unfairly even as a young dumb high school kid, the older fella's always took us under their wing and showed us the right way to do things. The internet on the the other hand is full of people who need to see a shrink to get help dealing with issues as evident from some of the newsgroups and forums. I sure would hate to see the ham bands full of people like this
Posted by
W8OB on 2003-01-12
W8OB
Yes indeed, your computer has a delete key. But what is written here won't be deleted. It will always be here for everyone to see and to read. It appears you also have the attitude I was describing. And as long as you have this "superior" attitude you will always push people away from the amateur radio hobby. Your kind of attitude is precisely what I was talking about. You can try to turn this survey into the disaster you created in the last one, and you just might succeed if your attitude and self-elevated opinions continue here. I simply answered the current survey's question but apparently you don't want people to answer it honestly. Once again, I never said anything about the morse code requirement, only the treatment people receive by morse code operators. There's a couple of people on here who are obviously bent on making more out of the issue. You did a pretty good job in the last survey of stiring things up, and you kept things going all the way to the end. I think the folks reading this survey would like to stick to the subject matter at hand, and that is "Have other operators operating practices affected your enjoyment of ham radio". I'm not going to reply with a simple yes or no. I simply described the real treatment I've received from others, which in this case has been cw operators. Get a grip on things. No one's trying eliminate cw here. We're just talking about poor treatment by others. Relax!
Posted by
KE4RWS on 2003-01-12
Lids
I operate 99 percent CW and really don't see much of it there. The times I've operated phone, 99 percent of what I've run into are friendly, curtious operators. There might be a few lids out there... I just leave them alone. Some of these "lids" might just be having a bad day or simply inexperienced operators... people are too fast to make a judgement.
There are people that thrive on drama and create their own. Some are hams and that's life. Those are the one's where you stop and say, "73, have a great day". We shouldn't dwell on it.
Best 73,
Marco, W7WIK
Posted by
AA5ET on 2003-01-12
RWS
Since you always have to have the last word on anything please by all means post it now, as I have no further intention of wasting my time replying any further. This is a open forum and if you don't like what people are posting TS. The way I see it is if we all want to be blue eyed boopies and tag along with your views then your happy, otherwise were degenerates and elitist. Anyway by all means do insert the last word here.....
Posted by
W8OB on 2003-01-12
W8OB
I think people have gotten way off track here. All I'm saying is what I've experienced in the past. It's not about having a last word or trashing anyone or anything. I think you've got the wrong impression about me, and I realize it's easy to get that impression given the previous survey. Please accept my apology if I've offended you in any way. I also believe the amateur radio hobby is just what it says, a hobby. I'm not trying to be a pain here, only conveying what's happened in the past. I heard a lot of trash from the cw community directed at those who don't care for cw. And it rubbed me the wrong way because a lot of the references were just really making those who aren't interested in cw appear as morons. That's really it in the nutshell. Without getting into all the other related issues about it I'll stop here. I only posted my experiences here because that's what this survey was asking. There's really nothing more to it than that. Once again though, I'm not looking for the last word. I'd just like for those involved (including me) to just chill on the matter and we could just put all this behind us and move on. Please accept my apology though if I've gotten under your skin. My intention was merely to state my experiences and move on.
Posted by
KE4RWS on 2003-01-12
ke4rws
apology accepted and please accept my apology also, as I got carried away. We should all enjoy ham radio without bickering
and stick together for its common goal.I can say I have had a chance in the past several weeks reading several forums and reflectors to honestly do a little rethinking on several issues. Please everybody lets just have a good time on the radio
Posted by
W8OB on 2003-01-12
To those who answered YES...
Why on earth would you willingly allow others to control you in this way? Much better to use the tuning knob on your rig... 73 Richard VK2SKY
Posted by
VK2SKY on 2003-01-12
learning a life
The answer to this vote is surely YES, and I do not recommend hams for kids without a proper support from experienced adult elmers.
I know some ham ops who intentionally blocked the TCP/IP packet experiment we tried to do in late 1980s on 70cm and 23cm FM.
I know quite a lot of ops who intentionally blocked my teenage school talk on 70cm repeater in 1983, just because they didn't want to listen to something they didn't understand.
I know a person who refused to grant IP address delegation of 44.129/16 just because he knew we redistributed them to hams,so we had to negotiate for 133.168/16 by ourselves. (Note that I had two QSOs with the person recently and had no bad feelings then, though I will never forget about this.)
Some Japanese CW ops who are not fluent in English often refuse to proceed contact in English morse code (well this is a matter of choice, but even in a Japanese Radiowave Regulation ALL CW-capable ham radio ops MUST understand some procedural CW words in English...)
I've learned a lot of life since 1975 when I got the ham radio ticket as a no-coder (and since 1979 when I got a ticket with CW privilege). I once decided to quit and I did during 1992 to 2002. I will have to cope with a lot of bad feelings at many events in the future.
But I've got one thing for sure; I still like ham radio, which is an art of getting most out of terse and concise communication, especially in CW, but also on the Phone modes.
73 es stay sober
// Kenji 'Joe' Rikitake, JJ1BDX/3
Posted by
JJ1BDX on 2003-01-12
Again?
Sigh...here we go again. Time to go back to 40 meters...73 es CUL de Tom, K4NR
Posted by
K4NR on 2003-01-12
Airheads
I can fully understand the way in which one would feel. I had the same thing happen to me on 6 meter, I had one person get on and just rip my CW apart. Just after he got through doing that, two other people got on phone and started calling me to state not to pay attention to this person. Not all Hams are this way.
Today Im rather cautious in even trying anymore to communicate using cw let alone going to the next level in testing since others dont seem to really want you in the hobby. Its sad, when I read in all of the ARRL news that they are trying to encourage people to join the ranks. As with everything you have bad people around and when your trying to learn something on your own, it makes it tough to continue on. This was the only hobby I had and I take my radio(s) with me while on the road to pass the time regardless of where I am at. You spend alot of time learning and try to advance but when you run into people that are just plain mean, you dont want to be involved with a group like this nor do you want to encourage your family or friends in getting involved with HAM radio.
Posted by
KD5HUS on 2003-01-11
Status
Unfortunately some hams think that Amateur radio is a society all its own, and if you can't run CW at 20+ WPM your not good enough to be sharing the same spectrum with them.
I have come to know many older hams, and fortunately most of them could care less about anothers ability to use CW. Let along what speed they are capable of.
I say keep your head up, and if someone comes on frequency that is a pain in the butt then just ignore them. There is plenty of others out there that want to talk.
Perhaps those Extra's that KF4MKJ mentioned should stay in the CW portion of the bands where they belong.
73,
Scott, KBØNLY
Posted by
KB0NLY on 2003-01-11
Status
Unfortunately some hams think that Amateur radio is a society all its own, and if you can't run CW at 20+ WPM your not good enough to be sharing the same spectrum with them.
I have come to know many older hams, and fortunately most of them could care less about anothers ability to use CW. Let along what speed they are capable of.
I say keep your head up, and if someone comes on frequency that is a pain in the butt then just ignore them. There is plenty of others out there that want to talk.
Perhaps those Extra's that KF4MKJ mentioned should stay in the CW portion of the bands where they belong.
73,
Scott, KBØNLY
Posted by
KB0NLY on 2003-01-11
No longer a ham ?
I see that the "No's" and the "I rise above it..." have the majority ... that's the way it should be - don't let them get you down.
But I don't understand the "No longer licensed because of it" ? Was your feelings hurt ? If someone calls you a name, do you go and hide in your closet ?
Posted by
KE3GK on 2003-01-11
Oh I forgot ...
Forgot to add ...
YOU WIMP !
Posted by
KE3GK on 2003-01-11
Bluff
Well,
Seems like the hobby is kind-a-like a poker game. You got your Stone Wall's, you got your I think I'll duck until it's over, and then you have the one that folds because the Gumba's who tell you what you gotta do, requardless of the real FCC LAW.
Posted by
KG4BVD on 2003-01-11
Yes & No
Well, coming fresh out of the last slugfest that was supposed to be a survey about the possiblity of doing away with code requirements, that leads me into this latest question regarding how other amateurs affect our enjoyment. I can honestly say that I thoroughly enjoy the bands I operate in. However, because of the superior attitudes out there of certain cw operators I can say they've definitely turned me away from having any desire to operate that mode. Many of those folks made it clear that if your not into cw then your not an amateur radio operator. Oh yeah, that's elmering! I can do without little mindgames like that.
Posted by
KE4RWS on 2003-01-11
Attitudes
Every hobby has it's few that have a bad attitude or an elitist attitude. What I say is if you find them then avoid them. The people with bad attitudes will soon get sick and the elitist's will soon disappear because they will not embrace change. The normal every day Radio Ham (the ones that answered no and those that rise above it) will be around for ever because really we are the elite...
Posted by
G7VOT on 2003-01-11
Attitudes????
Illigitimis non Carborundum!!
Posted by
K4VMO on 2003-01-11
Stand Your Ground
I too was following the Code/No Code debate and noted the anger (maybe even hate) that was exchanged among fellow amateurs. There is mutual respect and appreciation for each other in pursuits like boating, flying, classic cars, model railroading, photography, etc. The courtesy wave that bikers give each other always strikes me as a cool outward display of their fraternity. Hams more than any other group should know something about sending the right signals. But there always have and always will be hams who delight in trashing other people. Anyone who is currently a victim of bigoted attitudes concerning your worthiness to be an amateur, please consider this: The CW thing is just one more in a series of emotionally charged issues that have caused ill will inside the hobby. Arguments and personal attacks can be traced back before many of us were born. AM vs. SSB was a biggie that might have been the high water mark of intentional interference and outright on air hate. Tempers really flared when incentive licensing took privileges away from some to form segregated license classes and elitist attitudes. Fights over operating frequencies, dx, contests, ragchews, nets and personal squabbles continue today.
I don't mean to over-emphasize the ugly side of amateur radio, but sooner or later we all brush up against it in one form or another. It can be a rude awakening. I know some who were so shocked and upset that they called it quits. I wish they hadn't folded so soon
because in this no-so-perfect hobby there are ways to maximize your own enjoyment regardless of others operating practices and attitudes.
What worked for me (and still does after 40 years as a ham) is friends. Like-minded friends. One-time contacts that yield an enjoyable QSO are fine, but repeat QSOs with people I know and really like is what does it for me. Ham radio can be what you make it. With friends you can shape your amateur radio experience into a form that maximizes personal enjoyment. My advice: Make friends. Get on the air with friends. Stand your ground. Do it your way.
Posted by
W8CVE on 2003-01-11
No Problems
I really must say, in the 3 years I've been operating about 99.7% of my experience has been great. The vast majority of people have been polite, and this includes 40 and 80 meter phone. The only really odd situations I've seen involve dx pile ups. There seems to be a small group of people who for one reason or another want to interfer with the others. It may have something to do with antenna envy or the fact they have not been successful in life. I don't get angry I just pity them.
Posted by
KG6AMW on 2003-01-11
cw
_ .... .. ... .. ...
_._. _ _ _ _ _ _ ._..
:-) N9WQ
Posted by
N9WQ on 2003-01-11
ILLIGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM
I am mostly a CW op but I don't let either poor ops on CW or phone bother my enjoyment of the hobby.
Posted by
N1TKS on 2003-01-11
Well. YES!
The majority of hams I’ve met during two sun spot cycles, are friendly. I’ve enjoyed talking to hams in foreign countries about what their life is like, what their other hobbies are, how they found ham radio.
Every once and a while, I meet a ham with a 1X3 call who made his first rig—tons of fun talking with him.
As a result of talking with a ham in Nepal, I bought a tourist book about Nepal. By reading it, I became interested in their religions. I bought books on Hinduism. During the first day of grad school, I wound up sitting in front of 4 people from India. As it was, I was reading a book about Hinduism while waiting for the orientation/welcome session to start. I became friends with three of them.
The following summer, all three were going back home to different parts of India. One of them said I should visit them. I spent four weeks in India. Since I was in India, I had to go and see Nepal. Spent a week there. I flew from India to England. Since I was in that part of the world, I flew from England to Tunisia and visited with another class mate for a week. I forgot to mention, that when I left the USA, I flew from CA to Japan, we changed planes at sunset there, and flew to Singapore-spent three days in Singapore. From England back to the East coast of USA-spent a week in CT visiting with relatives, and then back to Tucson. I flew around the world.
All of this because of ham radio.
As a result of ham radio, when I meet people in the USA, from different countries around the world, I know where their country is—they are amazed.
I’ve had great fun chasing dxpeditions, the result of their operating practices. And, of course, tons of fun from hams working in foreign country, or traveling their for vacation, and getting on the air while there (like the Colvins!)
Since I like hunting DX, I’ve benefit immensely by the operating practices of YCCC. For decades now, they have maintained an VHF/UHF spotting system, and “recently”, one on the internet.
It will be interesting to read about other’s great experiences from ham radio. Even look forward to reading what the "bashers" post, a source of great Monty Python type humor!
Bob
Posted by
RobertKoernerExAE7G on 2003-01-11
Radio Road Rage?
I have the old ARRL Gil cartoon book. I can see that this discussion has been going on since the first 2 hams got on the air.
Get a copy of this neat old ARRL cartoon book, and you'll be able to laugh at "radio rage".
I guess mobile ops can have "radio road rage".
Posted by
KY6R on 2003-01-11
N9WQ
What a hero . . .
Posted by
KE4RWS on 2003-01-11
Kids, Lids & Space Cadets
I have to laugh when I hear some of you talking about your perception of elitist attitudes by CW operators. Is this shown by their operating practices (the topic of the question) or is this just another opportunity to rant and complain about the "unfair" CW test requirements.
Anyone who spends time listening or operating on the CW bands knows that the CW sub-bands are a far more friendly place to be than the SSB sub-bands or 2 meter FM.
I know that there are loads of good SSB and even 2 meter FM operators out there, but in general, the lid quotient is much higher there in my opinion than on the CW sub-bands.
Posted by
ADAM12 on 2003-01-11
No longer
A few years back I got so disgusted at all the lids on 75m and some of the other HF bands that I just did not want to particpate in ham radio any longer. DX was nice but I was also travelling extensively all over the world and usually spent a couple of nights a week on the telephone to Asia. The idea of talking to far away lands was no big deal because I could dial 'em right up. So I took a break for a while. I then discovered VHF weak signal, satellites, and microwaves. I can say that I am again motivated by the technical challenges and the operating courtesy. I hardly ever get on HF below 28MHz and when I do it is for a contest. I swear that someday I will get my DXCC (25 years and 80 counties!). Now I just ignore the goobers and don't spend anytime around them.
73
Scott-K9PO
Posted by
K9PO on 2003-01-11
Way to go!, but be careful
I'm sure my *friends* are waiting anxiousely for my opinion :-) This is an excellent topic IF not turned into the one I promised "last post" on. After that, I made it a point to actually be ACTIVE as time allowed on my usual bands. I found much that was unexpected. ALL new contacts were polite and non judgemental. I found a great little 2 meter simplex group. As well, I was invited to use at will a private 440 repeater by e-mail that I can hit w/ an HT. All in all, it was refreshing. Everyone doesn't hate me and I hate no one. There is hope after all in this hobby (or service);-)
Fights are easy. Lets try and get along. 73
Steve
Posted by
KE4GTI on 2003-01-11
Lids
Sure there are jerks everywhere. In amateur radio we call them lids. The great thing about my radio is I can allways tune them out, much easier than I can the jerks that I am around in person. Truthfully in the six years that I have been licensed, I have only heard one set of people with attitudes. They were in the extra portion of 20 meters having a nice qso. Seemed like nice enough guys until another operator tried to join them. Unfortunately he was a slow code extra. One of them must have looked him up. Because they immediately verbally attacked him. This guy they attacked apologized and left the frequency. No it wasn't me, I am also a slow code extra, but it immediately killed the idea that I had of joining them. It is a shame that some hams act the way that they did. They miss out on alot of interesting people that way.
73 de KF4MKJ John
Posted by
KF4MKJ on 2003-01-10