Survey Comments
The Only Game in Town
I don't agree with everything the ARRL does. However, for the most part they are doing a good job and are certainly an overall benefit to Amateur Radio. To refuse to support ARRL because you don't like some things they do is kind of like shooting yourself in the foot. Until someone else steps up with a better organization with better ideas, the ARRL will get my dollars.
Posted by
AA4PB on 2004-05-29
ARRL: a.k.a.-"DeadHorse"
The ARRL has stood the test of time but unfortunately for them their time is up w/ me and my wallet! The straw that broke...the letter requesting "Mega$" to upgrade the HQ station. Every month or so it's, contribute to do this, contribute to save that...Where do the excess funds all go? Betcha it's their "general fund" to pay salaries & take paid junkets. Did we get a federal bill to protect our towers/antennas? Did they win with YOUR donated monies to defeat BPL? Now this structured licensing fiasco they support! Face it boys & girls, the only reason they support this tiered licensing proposal is to bring the 11M operator to YOUR rigs speakers AND enrich their already shrinking membership with the "roger beepers" from the "childrens band". Trust me...(where have you heard that before-hi hi) the BPL won't be a problem to CB'ers on HF once they get there, they will just buy bigger linears & stronger echo mics....I say take out the pistol & do what you would do to any "Dying Horse" - a.k.a.: ARRL. I ask you to NOT RENEW YOUR MEMBERSHIP! What have you really gotten from them besides QST & money begging? (maybe once unemployed THE mgmnt. there will be on street corners w/ cardboard signs). Let them truly go without our dues for a couple of years! It's time we truly got something for our dues. I know their will be disagrement with my comments but thanks for reading them.
Posted by
K5KWK on 2004-05-20
"Dead Horse"
P.S. New Call is K5KWK
Ex. - W6KWK
Sorry for confusion.
Posted by
K5KWK on 2004-05-20
"Dead Horse"
P.S. New Call is K5KWK
Ex. - W6KWK
Sorry for confusion.
Posted by
K5KWK on 2004-05-20
ARRL renew
NOT if they pursue round two of the stupid "INCENTIVE" licensing !! They almost killed us the first time. Talk about ARRL bought and paid for by politicrats in DC.. duh
Posted by
W9CGI on 2004-04-22
how about ya vapidw
breaky broke the channel for that vapidw, gotcha ears on bud. 10-roger good budy them old time hamster getting your collar ruffed.
mercy sakes my turbin wearing amigo ya'll come down to the sillyside uppers and join us on the horse's ass net, ya'll fit rite in ya no. Si me amigo when i get my free hamcb ticket we gonna smoke the ole coaxial cable. ya'll make sure join us on that thar net, bring ya a can of chewy baccy, hang ya ole potbelly close to the raddidio and let them ass checks hang over the sitting machine. catchya on the flipper amigo.
Posted by
SKIPSHOOTER1 on 2004-03-04
watch it!
Reading the last couple of posts from vapidw shows that he is nothing more than a foul mouthed cb convert. If he was in my classroom I would wash his mouth out with soap. Just for what its worth, since you are unable to face the facts. Yes you did get your ass whipped soundly by the OT's on this board. Please move your crap over to the listservs for simpleton CBers.
Posted by
THETEACHER on 2004-03-04
Watch it (A command?)
Oh, my goodness, looky what we have here. If one is to believe the honorable practice of being up front in an internet forum, it’s "A Teacher". Does this connote some special power? Am I to believe that I should bow down because you're gonna threaten to wash my mouth out with soap?
Alright, let's see what we can learn: I would say that this teacher, whether real or imagined, perceived that identifying themselves as such will convey some sense of authority. I'm reminded of the adage: "Those who can, do, and those who can't teach." Further, it seems that discipline problems already haunt this hapless sage, as they resort to inflicting corporal punishment and mental anguish using soap at the very first infraction.
The next sentence, that my ass (what a diversion from someone who earlier was so easily dismayed at my use of this type of prose) was whipped by an OT. In college freshman English we were taught that the basis of rhetorical argument was evidence and reason to back up your claims. So, you're not very good at English either. I've got it, you're a PE teacher, and you moonlight by giving driver's ed. in the summer. I certainly am glad I'm not and have never had the misfortune of being in a classroom of yours. I pity the poor students that are subjected to your pitiful excuse for intellect. My mind contains yours, you haven't the ability to demand or request that I move my posts anywhere. Why don't you slink on over to the big boys table now, I believe this is beyond your capabilities.
As to the other sycophant; dude, Mexico now has extradition rights within the U.S. I'd be a bit worried, at least pack a bag, maybe buy a big jar of Vaseline.
Posted by
VAPIDW on 2004-03-04
I bow down
VAPIDW
I bow down before your much superior intellect.....But, you really should "GET OVER YOURSELF" !! And the rest of you guys...It's time we IGNORED anything further from him. It is obvious that he LIVES for this stuff, and he would argue with the moon if he could get close enough. Live long and prosper!
Posted by
W4RWO on 2004-03-04
what a zero
Come on now fellas, I stuck up for vapidw the other night. somebody said he ate shit sandwiches and barked at the moon, but I said I know he doesnt like bread. Agree this dude is a minus zero if he looks real hard he will find out that the playground is empty and all the kiddies went home long ago.
Posted by
JUICY on 2004-03-04
Yep, What a Zero!
But JUICY, you're still here. And it's wonderful to see that in asking for your best, you've petered out as usual. It must have been tough growing up and not knowing who your father was. There was a lot of missed school I'll bet. Maybe you and "THE TEACHER" should get together; at least the relationship should provide you with some oral cleanliness.
The other gentleman was right, I live for this stuff, although I have only limited time in an otherwise busy schedule between projects to waste, and alas, my time here must come to an end. But, I'll be back some day, in some incarnation. TTFN.
Posted by
VAPIDW on 2004-03-04
The (un) wise one
Hey Cool, I wondered when some stupid hole in the wall dumb-ass would try it again. Yeah, you stupid shit, I lost my indian accent, what are you, master of the obvious, or the oblivious? I asked your esteemed old timer if he wanted to play words, but he slinked off, so I just don't see how this can be defined as "getting my ass whipped", but then again, I was never that good at understanding the mumblings of morons. Again, comprehension seems to be the big problem here (1-800-ABCDEFG) what a concept. Other than that, I don't know how to help you on your quest for intelligence, but, don't forget to breathe, it's very important.
And once again, let me clarify, I'll try to use small words: I stand alone, I'm not saying anything good or bad about ZJP, although tagging along after my posts with this copy cat stuff is getting kind of annoying. The grownups table, huh? You guys always make some stupid, utterly non sensible, might I say idiotic, comment and then flee for safety.
What gives? Are you guys stupid, or just a bunch of freakin' cowards? Never, mind, you're at the cowards, I mean the big boy's table. Idiot!
Posted by
VAPIDW on 2004-03-03
JUICY JUICE Said: "Seems everytime you check out the news reports you see yet another nobody (no code) that has been arrested for something like child porn or armed robbery even interfering with Police transmissions. This is what ham radio has been reduced to". Now no-code techs are even lower than dummies. We are criminals. I can't wait till I learn the code so I can become an upstanding member of society again, (If I ever was that is). I will really try hard to stay away from the child porn and armed robbery until I get my element 1 certificate. Wow if the code is that powerful we should make it mandatory for all citizens of third world nations. We could wipe out terrorism in one swoop. KD5ZJP is my call; no CB handles for me.
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-03-02
quit blubbering
heh heh heh these two winners tangled with a OT and got their asses whipped, now their sniffing around like naughty puppies. VAPIDW what happened to your indian accent? Have fun boys playing with each other, I am going to move to the grown ups table now.
Posted by
THEWISEONE on 2004-03-02
A couple of losers
ZJP and VAP1DW you two dudes are nothing but a bunch of losers. Seems everytime you check out the news reports you see yet another nobody (no code) that has been arrested for something like child porn or armed robbery even interfering with Police transmissions. This is what ham radio has been reduced to. Listen you two asshole's hang around here jerk each other I am going to do something constructive.
Posted by
JUICY on 2004-03-01
Juicy?
Dude, where exactly did you get the stuff you're on? Now it's: "If you don't know Morse code then you're considered a criminal?" I mean, I know the words go by fast and there's a lot to read if you can't figure out what most of 'em mean, but try to get some help with the comprehension. First, I never said I was a no code, second, I stand on my own, I never said anything good or bad about ZJP. A lot of this is you're own assumption where you're trying to resort to name calling and innuendo (take it easy, sound it out).
If you really want to blast me here, cool, roll the dice and take your chances, but I'll go all the way. Up to now I've been nice, but you morons are starting to bore the hell out of me with your non sequiturs and endless drivel about an avocation where ultimately, all you do is put 2 wires together. If you were literate and could go a little farther at communications besides 59 and 73; if you used the gift of communication to really expand your knowledge and to learn from others, I'd be intrigued. But you're as bad as those you purport to loathe; you carry the same animosity, the same arrogant, indignant, bullshit pride in something without any substance. So what say Juicy, give me all you've got, winner take all final argument that I can't shoot full of holes. I dare you. Come on, impress me!
Posted by
VAPIDW on 2004-03-01
In command because he says he am!
KB5DPE: Here again, I've done the hard stuff for you and provided the contact information you'll need to report me:
INS Contacts in your area:
Cleveland District
A.J.C. Federal Building
1240 East Ninth Street, Room 501
Cleveland, OH 44199
Enforcement Activities:
Please contact the Duty Officer at (216) 535-0515 or write to this office. Please provide as much detailed information as possible. Information may be submitted anonymously and confidentially.
DHS
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/contactus
I'm at least curious about what you'll actually say: there's this guy that's coming to america to work and he's made disparaging remarks about the ham radio community being lazy and stupid in a public global forum on the internet. I can't tell you anything about him or where he is or when he'll come, but you should throw millions of dollars at this problem, to find him, arrest him immediately; because he pissed me off, and I'm a 'murican! Sig Heil!
This is the same stuff that goes on in ARES and SkyWarn when net control asks for reports from the affected area that meets criteria and some joker comes in with, "uh, I'm not in the affected area, and I just wanted to let you know that it's raining over here in XYZ."
But, you know what, it's always entertaining. Also, I see it took you 2 attempts to come up with something you felt was witty enough, or weighty enough to satisfy your urge to strike back. You're not very good at rhetorical argument are you? Might I suggest the Sunday crossword, or perhaps 11 meters? Although I'm sure you have great fun on 2 meters kerchunking the repeaters and causing MI don't you?
Come to think of it, I used nothing in my comments that was any different that people who use code 'worked' for their licenses and the no-code techs don't deserve any privileges. You know, the same kind of crap you spew on a regular basis. It stings a bit, don't it?
Look up the word 'Metaphor' sometime.
Posted by
VAPIDW on 2004-02-29
In command because he says he am!
VAP1DW, I agree with your discontent with the attitudes of these operators. They are very quick to sit back and condemn those they feel are inferior to them and profess their superiority but when someone gives them the same treatment they get their feeling hurt and want to take their toys and go home because you don't play the game their way. KB5DPE, would you like to report me to the FCC for not playing the game your way? I can give you the contact information as well if you would like. KD5ZJP - General in training.
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-29
VAP1DW and KD5ZJP,
No, your comments about ME don't bother me in the least; I just consider the source and ignore them. When you insult and belittle my COUNTRY, however, that's another matter. Matter of fact, if the likes of you agreed with me, that's when I'd worry.
Well, this fiasco has gone far enough. I'm outta here. You two have fun with you mutual admiration society. You deserve each other!
Tom
Posted by
KB5DPE on 2004-02-29
What about india
KB5DPE: You win the prize. ROTFLMAO! UR just the kind of example American ham radio needs. Wanna be the poster child for the INS?
Of all the groups I've tested, you guys were the one's that were the most juvenile, the one's roused to anger the fastest, the ones less capable of stating your opinion in clear and concise terms without becoming emotional -- amateur, juvenile or childlike is a most appropriate descriptor. There are lots of others that view you as a hate group too.
And BTW -- All your Base are belong to us!
Posted by
VAPIDW on 2004-02-28
Why isn't anyone complaining about the free upgrade from Advanced to Extra? KG9IO
Posted by
KG9IO on 2004-02-28
Advance Class..Really Worked For Their Class:
Ref KG9IO: The advanced test was the hardest i ever took. Those guys really earned what they have. All the fuss is about getting a free upgrade to hf when no work has been done to get there. Advance operators "earned" it. They have the respect of the amateur community. I've ask several about how they feel about the free upgrade and none that i've spoke with want it.
WR8D
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-28
Free Upgrade!!
KG9IO said: "Why isn't anyone complaining about the free upgrade from Advanced to Extra? KG9IO" Well Bill I am sorry to say but some operators think that HF should be an elitist members only club and they don't want techs to join. Some think it is OK to give a free license to an Advanced operator but not to a Tech. I wish it were different. KD5ZJP
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-28
Super CbTech:
Hey Mr Tech. An advance class operator has taken the hardest technicial test ever given to amateurs. Ohms law and the whole nine yards. Now after doing away with the advance class the extra class test has improved a little. Although i've not studied any in 15 years i did take a crack at the new extra exam and just about aced it three times in a row online. It was a pretty good exam. How arrogant of you to imply you're on the same level. Work for it pal. Advance class has already paid their dues. What have most techs done. Most sit around on repeaters and talk like cbers. Then tell eveyone they are the future of amateur radio. What a mess. If you're the future of amateur radio then the league has finally succeeded in making all of us look just plain ole stupid.
WR8D
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-28
Mr Cool
VAP1DW,
GOT YA! HA HA Now go cool down.
Tom KB5DPE
Posted by
KB5DPE on 2004-02-28
What about India
VAP1DW,
You gave me a great idea! I think I will forward your hateful posts to the US INS and also to the Dept. of Homeland Security. I would imagine that they would be interested in these kinds of attitudes from any person that seeks to enter the US. And, yes, I would consider it an honor to serve my country in any way I could, even as a "poster child (a 62 year old poster child!)"
Well, I viewed this post to enter my opinion regarding ARRL membership renewal, so I guess, after all of these diversions, I may as well do so.
I just renewed my ARRL membership online. As I have stated on other posts, while I don't agree with the entire proposal, and I CERTAINLY don't agree with their methodology in forming their policy; as an outsider, I can do nothing. At least, as a member, I can vote against those that I do not approve of. We need to remember that ARRL, while dropping the ball occasionally, has done much to support amateur radio. How many frequencies would we have had ARRL not been there? ARRL is working hard to defend against BPL and has done a creditable job so far. It doesn't take much research to uncover all of the GOOD that ARRL has done. Cancelling or non-renewal is NOT the answer. Get off your duff and work WITHIN the organization to improve it.
72 (all except VAP1DW) Tom KB5DPE
Posted by
KB5DPE on 2004-02-28
Arrl Qrt'd on us years ago.
I must of struck another "sheep" nerve.
Nuff said.
Gone to hit the bands for a while.
73
WR8D
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-27
Wr8d is afraid
of the changes we offer to bring to your kindergarden approach.
Posted by
VAPIDW on 2004-02-27
LOOK AT THE NUMBERS!!!!
THEY SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. Once the FCC changes the rules allowing HF operation w/o CW required testing and restructuring the licensing. The civil war between the pro and no code people will go away. We will just get back to our hobby. Until someone decides to stir something new up. .-.-. ...-.-
Posted by
KC5NMW on 2004-02-27
If not ARRL, Who ?
For those who think the ARRL is not needed or ineffective, please tell me who else represents and promotes amateur radio on a national level ?
Are you people familiar with the terms "special interest" or "lobbyist ?"
The only reason amateur radio exists is because of the ARRL. Get real.
I became a life member at age 16, and have never regretted it.
Posted by
K0SF on 2004-02-27
Hit the bands
The solar flux is up the K index is down. See you all on hf :)
Lynn
N3YE
Posted by
KB3KKT on 2004-02-27
What about India
If everyone in India were as intellectual as VAPIDW, you would be feeding those cows to the starving masses instead of worshipping them. AND, you would not make the SAME posting 4 times. As for the American dollars...I feel confident that you and your cousins already get your share. No, I don't think you have anything to teach the American Amateur Radio community.
Posted by
W4RWO on 2004-02-27
What about India
If everyone in India were as intellectual as VAPIDW, you would be feeding those cows to the starving masses instead of worshipping them. AND, you would not make the SAME posting 4 times. As for the American dollars...I feel confident that you and your cousins already get your share. No, I don't think you have anything to teach the American Amateur Radio community.
Posted by
W4RWO on 2004-02-27
DAMN the bands are quiet
Forget the ARRL debate. Is not non-use of our spectrum privileges enough to get us booted in the long run? If so, what the hell are we doing yacking on the phone lines? TAKE THIS TO THE AIR LIKE HAMS!!!
Anyone wanna suggest a frequency?
Posted by
K4CMD on 2004-02-27
KC5NMW:
KC5NMW said "Once the FCC changes the rules allowing HF operation w/o CW required testing and restructuring the licensing. The civil war between the pro and no code people will go away. We will just get back to our hobby." You think so? The civil war ignited by the ARRL's proposal caused divisions that won't fade that soon. This issue is not about Morse code. This issue is about the dumbing down of amateur radio. This issue is about standards. The only way that eliminating code testing would be acceptable to most in the pro-code camp would be to compensate for it with more rigid theory testing. That's the reason why code test elimination was accepted better in Europe. Those people, particularly in GB have more rigid testing. Getting a ham license in GB isn't the piece of cake that it is here in the US. If we are to eliminate code testing, we need to beef up our written exams. If people are still made to work for their licenses, retention of code testing most likely would be a non-issue.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-27
What about India
W4RWO: You are mistaken I think, not all people in India are worshiping cows. I have seen all the McDonalds and Jack in Box storys on TV where I think more americans are worshiping the beef. I have seen a lot of hams that are seeming to spend much time there as well.
India has many examples of making sure america is still working. Now that americans are not willing to work and take care of these things we can do the job for you and are much better at it too. It is not a crime to be talented and to be expert in technology.
As to the multiple postings, I can suggest several ways that the posting process can be made better so that refreshes don't mean multiple posts. Maybe you should leave the internet to us as well.
Posted by
VAPIDW on 2004-02-27
India
VAPIDW ...I think the best idea is to withdraw all foreign aid and industry from you and leave you to your own devices. Then we would see how humble and respectful of others you could become.
Posted by
W4RWO on 2004-02-27
What about India
W4RWO: I think you are missing my points. It is your country that needs our assistance now and not round the other way. Besides, is it not your country's position especially in ham radio to be ambassadors of goodwill and support diversity in its many forms? You are, are you not, a nation of immigrants? Should you not welcome someone who is clever who can have the plans to make things better for you?
Posted by
VAPIDW on 2004-02-27
What about India
VAPIDW said: “Besides, is it not your country's position especially in ham radio to be ambassadors of goodwill and support diversity in its many forms?” Well you are right. It has become apparent that some operators in this country have forgotten what amateur radio is all about. They believe it is an elitist members only club. I would like to apologize to you on behalf of my country and hobby. Please be aware not all US operators are like that. KD5ZJP save the world technician.
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-27
KD5ZJP,
Speak for yourself, Walter. I certainly have no intention of apologizing to this arrogant, anti-American jerk, who has deliberately made inflamatory and insulting comments about America and Americans. If anybody apologizes, it needs to be VAP1DW.
Tom KB5DPE
Posted by
KB5DPE on 2004-02-27
bad news for arrl
if this survey is valid--it looks like the arrl will either lose or not recruit 44% of respondents which applied over their membership base and as an analog over potential procpects looks like they are about to have a sever budget shortfall if their biz model depends on membership bucks......hmmmmmm.....maybe it's the sell out proposal doing all of this???
Posted by
KE6IRP on 2004-02-27
What about India
If I am a VU call and am coming to your country to get my share of your american dollars with my new job I will also bring my amateur radio where my license is superior to all of your extras. In India we are all learning and demonstrating our knowledge in a most fantastic way. Perhaps you would do well to join our India ARRL and there is not a bit of dissent. We can come to show the americans to be better ham operators by example.
Posted by
VAPIDW on 2004-02-26
What? Them worry?
In case you geniuses think the ARRL will be hurting from the people dropping their membership, I advise you to think again. They already have their plans made to close the funding gap. I recently received a request for an endowment for the W1AW station. The funding of that station would be from that endowment, cutting that expense from the general budget.
If I was able, I would send in something, but for now, I will just support them the way I have been. By word and dues. And I won't WHinE about it either.
Posted by
K1CJS on 2004-02-26
What about India?
VAP1DW,
You can also teach US Americans a lot about humility, too! You better stay in India, it sounds like Utopia.
Tom KB5DPE
Posted by
KB5DPE on 2004-02-26
Its all part of the big plan
Ref K1CJS : You bet they do. Many of us are fed up with their tactics left and will never look back. There's hundreds of thousands of chickenbanders out there that these dumbed down standards were invented for. Its all about coming up with some way to increase their membership. Its just a big fund raiser at our expense. The very foundations of amateur radio, the high standards are being attacked. "dumbed down" They hope to attract "bodies" thats all. Its just a business and amateur radio will suffer. We just want the standards maintained..its not about code or nocode now. Instead of making it easier to get a license beef up the standards. Make the exams more technicial. I for a while was very upset at the nocode proposal now doing away with the code and at the same time trying to give a license away. Its pretty plain to anyone other than a blind sheep what the plan is. How can any amateur that loves the bands and the hobby..thats active support the same organization thats trying to destroy it? 11 meters is a perfect example of "dumbed" down requirements. Now they want to make it so easy most of those folks responsible for the filth on cb will be attracted to amateur radio...all so they can get their membeship. They have turned a deaf ear to evey proposal in the last 10 years that helped in the "dumbing down". When you look at many of the issues through the years the only conclusion anyone can come up with is. They were looking for more members. They suggested things or did not address issues which they knew if they passed would put more members on the roster.
WR8D "one of the other two thirds of amateurs in Americia"
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-26
To K1CJS:
Whether dropping my ARRL membership hurts the organization or not, the outcome doesn't affect my decision. To give them any more of my money would be hypocritical. It would be against my principles. You don't contribute to an organization that is opposed to your values. To me, contributing to the ARRL would be no different than contributing to NCI. I didn't cancel my membership, but it will expire on 8/31/04. I will not renew.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-26
What? Them worry?
Feel free to drop your ARRL membership or just let it expire. But to make your opinion count you should let them know why you are no longer going to support them.
You could also join a group like FISTS and support them. Also, don't forget that CQ magazine has made a proposal to the FCC to drop ALL CODE testing, even for Extra. You should drop your CQ subscription and let them know why. At least the ARRL has proposed retaining the code test for Extra.
I am going to stick with the ARRL for now. I have always and will continue to voice my opinion to them.
Posted by
AD6WL on 2004-02-26
What about India
We can make India the utopia it deserves to be as we are to take our rightful place in the world. I must become to work in america for the money is with your country. Many from India are interested in the amateur radio working of US and will join the organizations when we arrive to begin working. Then we can help advise you on how to solve the problems like we have solved for in India. We will help you to make it a good hobby again, and you will learn the culture about India.
Posted by
VAPIDW on 2004-02-26
In Alphabetical Order
Q-hole, R-hole, WR8D, T-hole....
Posted by
BRUTAL_TRUTH on 2004-02-26
Interesting
Its no longer "will you renew your membership?", but how can we hurt the ARRL. Unbalanced? You decide.
Posted by
KG6AMW on 2004-02-26
AD6WL:
I don't subscribe to CQ. As for letting the ARRL know why I won't support them, I think Jim Haynie already understands that clearly, from this very thread. 73 ;-)
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-26
Pure Sheep Spew
Ah yes those of us that have earned the respect and privilege to be on the hambands. "Spewed" at by those on the outside looking in and wanting a free ride. If you have to do a little work to achieve something then you'll think more of it. You'll respect the rights given to you by the license class you have achieved. If its given to you then more than likely in your case you'll have the same attitude toward everyone you meet on hf. You seem to be a forgive me...know it all. Any opinion differant than that of yourself is wrong in your eyes. You can not see the damage already done to amateur radio and you are the typicial tech sitting on your ass waiting for the fcc to give you a hf license so you can save the world. You have no hf experiance so really you have no idea about the things which i have said about the bands. Yes there are people on there at this moment that do not belong there. Many have an attitude just like yourself. Many just came into the hobby after the latest dumb down. Did you understand all that clearly?
No i don't think because i passed 20 wpm i'm better than you. YOU think i'm better than you. Thats the problem i see all the time. You guys cant stand that you're to lazy to work for a license and many of us will never be supportive of your type. You're part of the split the arrl has helped put between the ranks of hams here in the states. You'll probably get your free ticket. Then you'll probably get yourself a fancy vanity call sign so most the guys on hf won't connect the free license you got without earning it. Oh well but that tech attitude will still be there. You'll stick out like a sore thumb. Heck...hi hi...you can use my call and they'll still pick you out of the crowd. Hi Hi...
John WR8D
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-25
GO WR8D
Yep, Just can't wait to see all those CB Extras on the HF bands. Might as well make 11 meters a ham band again. My dog is studying for his EXTRA. His call will be W2WOF. Yes WR8D has it all right. I am an ARRL member for two reasons.
1- QST
2- DXCC
73 Ed
Posted by
KX2S on 2004-02-25
Pure Sheep Spew (revisited)
WR8D said: "Ah yes those of us that have earned the respect and privilege to be on the hambands." Well who exactly is respecting you? It sure isn’t those reasonable and prudent operators that read your posts. Pecking down on a key doesn't give you respect, your actions do. Keep showing us that (I am superior to you attitude). I would say Extra Class attitude but I am not small minded enough to classify all Extra Class operators in with you. I am sure there are some really great Extra operators that don't have a superiority complex. KD5ZJP Sheep Spew, and proud of it.
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-25
Spewmaster Tech:
Ah yes the good ole save the world technician attitude. We are the future of amateur radio. Hi Hi..its showing through pretty good. Really no hard feelings though, most of you guys just can't help it.
WR8D
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-25
Spew:
Hi Hi...what a waste!
This is killing me Hi Hi...
I've not laughed this much in years. Thanks so much for the entertainment "Mr reasonable and prudent tech".
Did i spell all that rite?
WR8D
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-25
Well let me define just a little.
Reasonable..i think its reasonable to enjoy the bands and want to actually work for the upgrade. In doing this depending on the amount of time it takes to learn the material the upgrade will be appreciated. "if its earned you'll think more of it". Listen to 11 meters. Thats what you get when its "free". We have this division now in the ham ranks thanks to the system. Don't worry about the highcode lowcode nocode. Just work for your ticket and get off your ass and don't just sit there waiting for someone to give it to you. I think i have been very prudent with my comments. Ok now let me see...WR8D...said...........!!!!!
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-25
The Good Things in Life!
Icom IC-718 HF Transceiver = $500, G5RV Dipole antenna = $39.99, MFJ 948 antenna Tuner = $129.95, Tech to General Upgrade = Free, Listening to an elitist Extra whine about the game not being played his way = PRICELESS. :)
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-25
Idea
OK I know...lets all get together in one room and talk to each other just like we talk to each other here....The last one standing wins...
Posted by
PRUDENT on 2004-02-25
Here i come to save the day:
Thanks for the compliment. Remember though i said "You are the one calling us better or elite or how ever you put it". That gets back to this whole issue and the split in the ham ranks.
Bless your heart!
You only wanna be a ham!
Iwannabeaham Iwannabeaham and the arrl is actually trying to help give you a license since you just can't make the grade. Those mean ole nasty extra guys just don't like me. Iwannabeaham..
Face the east and click your heals together three times as you say Iwannabeaham.
WR8D saysssssss come on now lets see you practice here infront of everyone a little first. Iwannabeaham! remember now to click your heals together three times as you say this.
Tech mentality REALLY priceless:
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-25
You know this is really "play ground mentality". Why don't we stop this here and you can continue with more folks of your own stature over on the bands. There's little groups on each one all by themselves that you'll fit in very nicely with. Oh i understand you have to wait for them to give you access.
73
John WR8D
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-25
no codes
You have to love the brainless no codes. You know if you enter nocode in your spell checker it comes up with nobodies. My Father had a saying that applies to the nocodes on the outside looking in. They are useless as titties on a boar pig. Thank you ARRL for bringing these lazy slackers into hamradio, Thank you again ARRL for your latest idea to grease your ass pockets. BPL is not the enemy the ARRL is. It will be a cold day in hell before the ARRL ever see's a penny from me.
Posted by
JUICY on 2004-02-25
why need a room?
In case you whiney babies didn't know it, Just because the ARRL says dump don't mean the FCC is going to squat. Save your bux on for that HF rig until the smoke clears. I have insider info that you wannabehams might really be crying foul shortly. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.........You guys are still outside looking in.
Posted by
THEWISEONE on 2004-02-25
ZJP
breaker channel for that KD5ZJP one mo time for that ZJP, mercy sakes goodbuddy whatta yo go do when that thar ARRL give us our free hamcb tickets yo bes a big enuff horses ass to join this hare club git that thar hamcb rigga yos on them ham freeband channels so we rachetjaw down the ole coax. bring it back.
Posted by
SKIPSHOOTER1 on 2004-02-25
Sweat It
Wow, I have never seen so many elite’s get so fired up over a meaningless tech. You sure are wasting allot of time sweating me. Must be that I have hit kind of close to home for a few people. :) Guys it is this little thing of "Mind Over Matter" You shouldn't mine me because I don't matter, remember I am just a tech. You know we are only canon fodder for you really smart hard working people. Man, I can’t wait till I learn the code so I can be more smarter to. KD5ZJP The one you love to hate.
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-25
arrl survey
While this is no scientific survey--I'd sure be worried if I worked at the arrl--I see big budgetary cuts with this loss of members and prospective members. This will hurt-----
Posted by
KE6IRP on 2004-02-25
Well Said
I cancelled my membership today! and encourage others to do the same. That is all the arrl will understand. (losing money) When they start with the bpl a ham radio will not be worth 2 cents any ways and all the whinning to have code dropped will all be for nothing, cause the bands will be worthless anyways. If a 7 year old can learn the code and not whine about it all of these lazy gimme no coders ought to see that all you have to do is raise your lazy butt off the couch for 15-20 minutes a day for a few weeks and you will have it learned anyways. If you spent half the effort that you spend trying to avoid learning it, and moved it to the learning side you would already have it learned. The worst thing the arrl ever did was to get the fcc to allow a code free ticket. That is what has opened to the door to the give me a ticket for nothing people. I have written the arrl many times, never put any foul language in there and they just don't respond. The deal is, that they don't care what we think they are going to do what they want, and the heck with everybody and there opinons. What about all the contacts with other contries that don't speak english. (CW is the only international language) You are limiting yourself by not learning the code. What about challange? If you want dependable contacts with other countries use a computor. Ham radio is all about the challange and learning, so why not learn?
Posted by AA5GO on February 24, 2004
Posted by
KE6IRP on 2004-02-25
Sold to the highest bidder: (cont.)
At the 2004 annual ARRL board meeting, the following ARRL board members attended.
Bernie Fuller, N3EFN, Atlantic Division (General)
George R. Isely, W9GIG, Central Division (Extra)
Jay Bellows, K0QB, Dakota Division (Extra)
Rick Roderick, K5UR, Delta Division (Extra)
Jim Weaver, K8JE, Great Lakes Division (Extra)
Frank Fallon, N2FF, Hudson Division (Extra)
Wade Walstrom, W0EJ, Midwest Division (Extra)
Tom Frenaye, K1KI, New England Division (Extra)
Bob Vallio, W6RGG, Pacific Division (Extra)
Dennis Bodson, W4PWF, Roanoke Division (Extra)
Walt Stinson, W0CP, Rocky Mountain Division (Extra)
Frank M. Butler, W4RH, Southeastern Division (Extra)
Art Goddard, W6XD, Southwestern Division (Extra)
Coy Day, N5OK, West Gulf Division (Extra)
These board members voted overwhelming to propose the new band structuring to the FCC. I quote this to point out that if we have been sold out as WR8D suggests then you should ask yourself two questions. Why would 1 general and 13 extra class operator’s vote in favor of this if it is so bad for amateur radio? Second if it is all about money and lining pockets like some have suggested then learning the code and passing all the tests did nothing for these 14 operators morals and ethics. It didn’t make them any better of people. I feel these 14 operators have the foresight to look into the future and see what is needed to save amateur radio. I would hope that the reasonable and prudent operators out there would see that and support the ARRL. (Spell Checking sponsored in part by Microsoft Word)
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-24
Sold Us Out!
Yes the reasonable and prudent other two thirds of the amateur community are staying away from the arrl. Hum..wonder why that is? "Did i spell all that rite or is it right"
WR8D
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-24
Sheep Spew !
Another thing. Save amateur radio?? What with the exception of dumbing the amateur ranks down in the last two and a half years is wrong with amateur radio? Will the arrl as you say save the bands by this give away proposal. The only thing wrong that i can see is at the current dumbed down levels we have bunches of people on the air that have no business being there. This is because of the lack of representation from the arrl. Its all part of their membership drive. Quantity instead of Quality. You're just an example of an Arrl sheep. Oh me we've got to save amateur radio. Yes we sure do and it should of read.."we've got to save amateur radio from the arrl "business". Its our own faults though. We should never have allowed those that are supposed to represent us as hams become a business. Thats where it all went wrong.
73
John WR8D
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-24
Sheep Spew !
WR8D said: Will the arrl as you say save the bands by this give away proposal. The key part of this quote is being “give away” Has anyone noticed that these two words seem to be in a good many of his posts? WR8D, do you truly have the best interest of all amateur radio in your heart when you make this comment or is it as it sounds, “I had to do it and SO SHOULD YOU?” I think most of the posts bashing the ARRL for their new proposal are not operators expressing true concern for the hobby of amateur radio it is frustration and dissatisfaction that someone may get what they have by jumping through one less hoop then they had to. All of you that think in this childish way should leave the ARRL or not join. Let the ARRL fold and see where you are in 10 years or so. Without the ARRL fighting for your and soon to be my bands their will be no bands. They will be given to big business. Then you will see what big business is truly like. Who will fight for us? You? KD5ZJP, ARRL Sheep and proud of it!!!!!!!!(Spell Check sponsored in part by Microsoft Word)
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-24
Sheep Spew ! (Revisited)
Another thing, WR8D said: “The only thing wrong that I can see is at the current dumbed down levels we have bunches of people on the air that have no business being there.” This comment came right after the famous “give away” statement. This would imply that giving a free upgrade to a technician would mean that you think dumb people would be on HF. Do you think Technicians are dumb people. I know a few techs that would disagree with you on that point. But then again we techs are dumb and you probably wouldn’t care what the dumb techs think. KD5ZJP, Dumb Tech and proud of it. (Spell Check Sponsored in part by Microsoft Word)
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-24
I want hams on the bands!
I have only been licensed 9 years and I still find few people younger than me in age or experience on the HF bands. I hope that when I have 30 years of ham experience I will still have people to talk too!
What would our US or international ham radio service be without ARRL? Can you honestly say "better"? If so, I fear for our future.
Posted by
WO8USA on 2004-02-24
I cancelled my membership today! and encourage others to do the same. That is all the arrl will understand. (losing money) When they start with the bpl a ham radio will not be worth 2 cents any ways and all the whinning to have code dropped will all be for nothing, cause the bands will be worthless anyways. If a 7 year old can learn the code and not whine about it all of these lazy gimme no coders ought to see that all you have to do is raise your lazy butt off the couch for 15-20 minutes a day for a few weeks and you will have it learned anyways. If you spent half the effort that you spend trying to avoid learning it, and moved it to the learning side you would already have it learned. The worst thing the arrl ever did was to get the fcc to allow a code free ticket. That is what has opened to the door to the give me a ticket for nothing people. I have written the arrl many times, never put any foul language in there and they just don't respond. The deal is, that they don't care what we think they are going to do what they want, and the heck with everybody and there opinons. What about all the contacts with other contries that don't speak english. (CW is the only international language) You are limiting yourself by not learning the code. What about challange? If you want dependable contacts with other countries use a computor. Ham radio is all about the challange and learning, so why not learn?
Posted by
AA5GO on 2004-02-24
idea
What if when this was all said and done the FCC told us techs that we could no longer renew our liscences. we would then (or many of us would) upgrade to general. i spose if they wanted to be nice they could tell us that when we renewed we would get "novice" (the new one) liscenses. this might actually work.
KB1KNN
steve
Posted by
KB1KNN on 2004-02-24
At least the ARRL had enough sense to propose keeping element 1 for Extra. But, why give free upgrades to General with no effort? The dumbing down of ham radio is at full throttle. It is groups like W5YI, NCI and NCVEC that are leading the way in dumbing down this great hobby. They are killing ham radio. At least the ARRL is trying to make a compromise that will appeal to most hams while trying to maintain some standard of achieving a license.
Posted by
OLDFART13 on 2004-02-23
ARRL - Support the League.
Having just left a political appointment at the Dept of Defense from a position responsible for RF spectrum policy issues and the Department's interface with the US spectrum community, I can state with some authority - supporting the ARRL is not only worthwhile, it is imperative for the future of Amateur Radio in the United States. I am a Life Member, a value I never fully appreciated when I became one in the early 60's. ARRL personnel are heavily involved in all the major spectrum and legal issues facing our "hobby" today. In my opinion, they deserve all the support we can muster. When we have concerns, those should be voiced through the appropriate regional Director, if that Director is non-responsive, elect one that will be responsive. Having been licensed since 1952, I can attest to the ARRL's positive support of Amateur Radio. With more than 700,000 licensed US "hams" and only 150,000 ARRL members -I believe all of us should re-think our opinions about the League and, in turn, suppport the only US organization actively and authoritatively representing our interests at Federal, State, and local governmental levels. For those non-members reading this - I urge you to reconsider and focus on the successes achieved by ARRL personnel acting on our behalf.
Posted by
K6LEW on 2004-02-22
Sold to the highest bidder:
Ref K6LEW: Well they can pick up a few more members with their give away license. I'm sure the cbers are just waiting at the door. They have betrayed my trust and years of support. I have been sold out to the highest bidder. The all mighty buck from the commercial sector means more to them than the high standards set for the amateur community. They want "quantity instead of quality". I'm sorry for you that you are a life member and have "wasted" your money. They are not the same arrl of 15 years ago. I saw through them 10 years ago when it became clear they were for every dumb down issue that came about. "Only to put more money in their pockets". An organization that is supposed to represent amateur radio and countless members should never been allowed to have "commercial interests". PERIOD! They have sold us all out and there is "no" going back! 73
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-22
The winner is
Way to go ARRL, according to the survey you pick up 4 percent of new members while at the same time losing about 35 percent of the stable membership base you used to have.
Hats off thats real businessmanship
Posted by
THEWISEONE on 2004-02-22
WISEONE
I don't know what your reading. 47% will renew + 8% life members + 4% will join = 59% will stay or join. 24%, not 35% will not renew. The 10% you added from the non members who will not join are not lost...they were never there to begin with. They may have decided not to join regardless of the decision like most already do. If you want to split the undecided (I'll even give you the extra %), then it becomes(of those responding)62% to 28% in favor, with 10% who were never intending to be members to begin with.
Posted by
HFDUDE on 2004-02-22
I'm going to join, after all
I have never been an ARRL member. It's not that I have ever had any reason not to, I just never got around to it. I guess that I just needed a little push. Now I have the incentive that I needed...the new ARRL HF proposal. I can't stand it. It's the most sickening thing I have ever heard. They might as well just start printing licences on toilet paper...at least then they'd be useful for something. Thing is, if I don't join, the ARRL has no reason to listen to my input. I am going to join for 1 year, and let them know what I think about their proposal. I will let them know why I joined. I will give them my input loudly and often. If after 1 year they still don't have things straightened out, I will quit. If however, progress is made, they may have a new lifer. Yep, I should have belonged to the orginization a long time ago...but hindsight is 20/20.
Posted by
RICK1834 on 2004-02-22
ARRL, NO MORE
I have been licensed since 1965. Back then I had all amateur privledges. Then one day the ARRL proposes incentive licensing. From that day until now the ARRL has done nothing for me. They have done little for the Ham community except help us with antenna restrictions. I got my extra when I still had to go to a FCC office. My general test required to draw circuit diagrams. Today it takes little effert to pass a test. Has the hobby grown with all these changes? No, it hasn't. Everything the ARRL has attempted to help the hobby grow, has failed. I have paid my last subscription to QST. I will not support them any longer. I beleive all or most of these changes come from the greed of manufacturers who just want to sell more equipment. They lobby the ARRL to make these changes. This hobby is still a bunch of middle aged men who make up the majority. I don't have a problem with that, it is just a fact, and I am one of them. The ARRL keeps trying to bring younger people in but they have to much competition and little interest from younger segments of the population. Our hobby has changed drastically just like society has changed over the years. I don't like what I hear on the bands. Fowl mouths and rude people. I haven't used a microphone in 10 years except on the local FM repeaters. I am active on the low bands but CW only where you rarely hear fowl language or rude people.
Posted by
K8DK on 2004-02-21
FREE LOADERS GET NOWHERE
THANKS CRAZY #19 for reposting my comments it proves A GOOD POINT APROX. 600'000 AMATEURS RIDE ( FREE ) WHILE APROX. 150'000 GOOD HARD WORKING RADIO AMATEURS " PAY " AND THE FREELOADERS BITCH , MOAN AND WHINE AND ETC. BUT NO THEY DON'T WANNA PAY FOR THE RIGHT. as good members DO. DO THEY. IF THE ARRL WINS THE BATTLE AGAINST BPL WE ALL WIN INCLUDING THE 600'000 FREELOADERS. IF MORE PEOPLE FROM THE 600,000 RANKS WOULD JOIN. ( WE WOULD HAVE A LOT MORE CLOUT BEFORE THE FCC THAN WE DO NOW.) remembers it is very very very EASY TO WHINE, MOAN AND CRY. than it is to JOIN THE ARRL AND STAND UP BE HEARD. ARRL BASHING IS VERY COUNTER PRODUCTIVE. and that is clearly shown on those BASHING POSTS. 73 TOM N2NZJ ARRL MEMBER AND VERY PROUD OF IT.
Posted by
N2NZJ on 2004-02-21
Morse Code=dumbest thing
This is SOOOO funny! They talk about Dumbing down Ham Radio? Morse Code is about the dumbest thing there is in Ham Radio. As soon as they get rid of it as a requirement for a license, Morse Code will become a hobby instead of a religion, and then some real technical types will get into Amateur Radio. There are a lot more extremely intelligent techs, than most of you can comprehend, who refuse to waste their time learning something they will NEVER use.
Posted by
KL7DR on 2004-02-21
wow everyone is bitching
just take it all to 3950 LSB. That's the Liberty Net, every night at 10:00 PM eastern time.
Posted by
KF4ZTO on 2004-02-21
AHHHHHHH!!!!!
Yes you can tell by my call i am tech but tommorow i am taking the code test, I am going to earn my HF privalges. I can tell that Ham radio should go back to the way it was before i was licensed. Novice with low power on CW only, Tech with only VHF up, Genral with ALl tech priv and some HF, Advanced with More priv and Extra with all priv. Code tests at 5 wpm for Gen, 13 wpm for Advanced and 18 wpm for extra, I can tell you that with the BPL problem CW will be the only usable mode. Now to step down from the soapbox and take that code test 73s
Posted by
KC0QEV on 2004-02-21
ARRL
Of course I'm going to renew my ARRL membership. There's nobody else who is willing or able to represent my interests in Washington or Geneva.
By and large, ARRL does a great job.
There are occasional mess-ups in the field organization, but they are localized, I think. It's what you get when you have a volunteer organization.
73TomAB5XZ
Posted by
AB5XZ on 2004-02-21
Complaint Department
Now that the ARRL’s board of directors have proposed another license restructuring you may have an opinion on this or other matters. Complaining to your fellow hams will only help to vent your anger but won’t influence the few individuals that make ARRL policy. You must understand that it is the 15 Directors of the ARRL who’s voting controls League policy. Not your ham friends, not QST Magazine and not league employees.
Don't waste your time complaining to those that have no power to create change.
Write to your ARRL Director with your thoughts. You’ll find their name in every issue of QST Usually on page 15.
Jay......NE2Q
Posted by
NE2Q on 2004-02-20
Complaint Department
Now that the ARRL’s board of directors have proposed another license restructuring you may have an opinion on this or other matters. Complaining to your fellow hams will only help to vent your anger but won’t influence the few individuals that make ARRL policy. You must understand that it is the 15 Directors of the ARRL who’s voting controls League policy. Not your ham friends, not QST Magazine and not league employees.
Don't waste your time complaining to those that have no power to create change.
Write to your ARRL Director with your thoughts. You’ll find their name in every issue of QST Usually on page 15.
Jay......NE2Q
Posted by
NE2Q on 2004-02-20
Rise up
Hams will always rise to the level of expectation...Too bad the ARRL wants to lower those expectations.
Posted by
KC0RCQ on 2004-02-20
ARRL
Pay to belong to the arrl heck no. there doin exactly what I want. I want my free ham-cb license. Lets just do it fcc I want my license now.
Posted by
CRAZYCBER_BRK19 on 2004-02-20
Revenue Denial
47% of 110,000 will renew
25% No
8% Lifers
10% Never
Says alot, even if you remove lifers.
Bill
Posted by
NE1Z on 2004-02-20
Join? Renew?
Find the best national amateur organization, join it, and help it support ham radio.
If there are any credible ones other than ARRL, I'd be interested to know.
By me, the League does a pretty good job!
Posted by
AA6E on 2004-02-20
Radio Amateur Foundation
I fully support the Radio Amateur Foundation and their proposal. I am still undecided on the ARRL.
http://www.qsl.net/ag4rq/proposal.html
Posted by
AD6WL on 2004-02-20
ARRL - (A)ny (R)eason to (R)enew (L)ately??
My elmer gave me a membership about 16 months ago. I got the magazines, etc., but never really saw much that appealed to me in them. Kept getting requests from the ARRL for donations and money, but never saw them really doing anything. So, when time came to renew, I decided to not renew. Funny thing, they kept sending me invites, but never showed me any real reason to join. So, I told them at Orlando to take my name off the list. I just don't think they represent real amateurs. I think they are just in it for the money. Too bad. And at the cost of the annual membership, the magazine's just not enough of a reason to be a member.
Thom, KA4EPX
Posted by
KA4EPX on 2004-02-20
My ARRL Director responded
I see a comment here by AG4RQ.
It is unfortunate his ARRL director did not respond to his e-mails.
I sent an e-mail to my director, on the CW requirement issue, and he responded 2 days later.
Posted by
W7DUD on 2004-02-20
Probably not
I fully support the ARRL's proposal to eliminate CW. I hope to soon be on HF and I thank the ARRL for their great work, but I don't plan on getting a membership.
Posted by
TECH2003 on 2004-02-20
SUPPORT ARRL.
I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD JUST STOP BASHING AT THE ARRL FOR WHAT EVER REASON. they deserve our support more now than EVER. they really are the best and only VIABLE ORGANIZATION THAT IS ON OUR SIDE. just remember this IF THEY GO WE GO ALSO. just like drilling a hole in your OWN BOAT. contructive criticism is OK but bashing does not prove out any thing EXCEPT ONES DESTRUCTIVE ANGER!!. ALL GOOD RADIO AMATEURS SHOULD COME TO THE AID OF THE ARRL. PSE SUPPORT IT OR LOSE THE BANDS. TOM N2NZJ PROUD TO BE AN ARRL MEMBER. 73
Posted by
N2NZJ on 2004-02-20
Poster Child
TECH 2003...You are the poster child for those who want everything for nothing. You espouse that you "...fully support the ARRL to eliminate CW." Yet, you go on to say that you do not plan on getting a membership from those who are fighting to get you what you want for nothing. THAT IS THE PERFECT MENTALITY and proves every point made by those who say that many of the "no-coders" want it all for nothing. THANKS!! for supporting the efforts of those who do not want the FCC to give away a license upgrade for nothing. Don't forget the seven year old who passed her Extra with Morse Code. It cracks me up how none of the dislikers of Morse Code can swallow that one. I guess if you want to outdone by a seven year old that is okay...Sad times for Amateur Radio.
Posted by
KC0RCQ on 2004-02-20
KC0RCQ said: "It cracks me up how none of the dislikers of Morse Code can swallow that one. I guess if you want to outdone by a seven year old that is okay...Sad times for Amateur Radio." And that is a good point. I would also like to make that point to all those that think the new ARRL proposal will dumb down Amateur Radio. If a 7 year old girl can pass the tests then how could it get much dumber? If a 7 year old girl can pass all the requirements to get her extra class license then just how much of a deterent is the code anyway? Did anyone think of it that way? I think it will only help out the hobby not destroy it.
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-20
Late Breaking News!!!
http://www.eham.net/forums/Licensing/1432
Posted by
TECH2003 on 2004-02-20
Betrayed and Soldout!
Ref KD5ZJP: You misunderstand om. This is not a code nocode debate. The dumbing down has already started example the 7 year old. Try to imagine "giving away general class licenses". Arrl isn't drawing enough membership dues in so they come up with this give away proposal. I'd rather talk to the 7 year old by the way than the 250 pound cber with half a pound of snuff jutting his lower lip out. How in the world can you say giving an hf ticket away as in "freebee" will help amateur radio? "another blind sheep being led to slaughter"
73
John WR8D
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-20
Dumbing down
I don't see how letting a 7 year old learn morse and being able to pass an extra exam is dumbing down in the morse category. I support having to learn cw, it makes things a whole lot more interesting. Anybody can learn the code if they want to enough--and i don't think it's any easier for this 7 year old than for any of the rest of us. The thing I see with this is that the 7 year old understands enough of the theoretical aspects of radio in order to pass the test--is this a result of here being merely precocious, or does it have something to do with the (published) question pools themselves? Don't let my call sign fool you, i am totally against any dumbing down of the licensing criteria. What purpose or fun would hamming be if not for the sense of accomplishment and the understanding you gain from learning enough to pass these tests?
Posted by
W1CDN on 2004-02-20
Quote--I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD JUST STOP BASHING AT THE ARRL FOR WHAT EVER REASON. they deserve our support more now than EVER. they really are the best and only VIABLE ORGANIZATION THAT IS ON OUR SIDE. just remember this IF THEY GO WE GO ALSO. just like drilling a hole in your OWN BOAT. contructive criticism is OK but bashing does not prove out any thing EXCEPT ONES DESTRUCTIVE ANGER!!. ALL GOOD RADIO AMATEURS SHOULD COME TO THE AID OF THE ARRL. PSE SUPPORT IT OR LOSE THE BANDS. TOM N2NZJ PROUD TO BE AN ARRL MEMBER. 73
Posted by N2NZJ on February 20, 2004
Reply--CRAZYCBER_BRK19--ARE YOU NUTS N2NZJ. Why pay for it when its free. If the arrl can do this free upgrade thing more power to them. Fine if you want to pay maybe you can pay me also. I just want a ham-cb general class license for free.
Posted by
CRAZYCBER_BRK19 on 2004-02-20
new proposal to FCC
For those of you who are disgruntled over the ARRL's proposal, the Radio Amateur Foundation just submitted its proposal to the FCC today. What is it all about? Retaining Element 1 testing for General and Extra, retaining the Technician class license as the entry point into the Amateur Service, granting Technician class licensees limited HF privileges, upgrading all Novices to Technician, upgrading all Advanceds to Extra, instituting a new protected segment for wideband data access from 29.0 and 29.3 MHz, putting an end to published question pools, and establishing a ten-day waiting period for retaking failed test elements. For further info on this proposal, you can read about it and download the PDF file of the proposal on my web site at http://www.qsl.net/ag4rq.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-19
New
I think that starting a new organization would be a lot of trouble for little benfit. The ARRL at the moment is the connection to the FCC in this country, and I doubt the FCC recognizing the existence of a new group, much less the rights of that new group to "control" in any way a portion of the bandwith which they have decreed belongs to ARRL's jurisdiction. Why it's theirs to divide I do not know. Anyway, the fact remains that we're much better off dealing with the problems in the ARRL as they are now than by creating another organization (in fact or in spirit) for the sake of argument. In fact, I think that the way to make the ARRL less likely to give away even more undeserved priveledges is to let them know that they aren't going under, that the spirit of amateur radio is still very much alive, by doing the best to keep subscriptions up among newcomers. Rather than boycotting the ARRL we should be letting them now we're here, and that we disagree. I know this sounds like a contradiction but the threat of losing business seems more likely to work than simply cutting off subscriptions; if I were the ARRL I would take this as a sign of dropping interest in ham radio and use it to further whatever directives needed to reverse this drop.
Posted by
W1CDN on 2004-02-19
Evolution or Revolution?
I took an interesting course at my last job entitled "World Class Manufacturing". One interesting item was that some companies jump to completely new processes when things aren't working right. This usually is the wrong thing to do, because it often makes things much worse for an extended period of time. Successful companies evolve the processes to make them work. The bottom line was that evolution was much more successful than revolution in the business world, in both time and results. I've seen this many times in my engineering world - i.e. I can create products faster by evolving existing designs than by jumping into something totally different. Sometimes you need a radical makeover, but you have to be willing to take significant time and effort in order to accomplish this. So carrying this to the current issue, doesn't it make sense to evolve the ARRL to what you want through your vote, rather than to start a new organization?
Those of you who have started new clubs (I’ve done it twice) know how much trouble it is to start a new organization. It is very difficult to get people interested in helping out. It is often hard to get more than one person to run for an office. And of course, the officers wind up doing virtually all the work. Folks are talking about Director recalls, but do you have someone willing to step in and take their places? Many of the ARRL elections are uncontested, because there aren't many people who want to take on this work.
My 2-cents.
Phil – AD5X
Posted by
AD5X on 2004-02-19
Well it looks to me like around 35 percent represented here are sick and tired of being sold out by the arrl to the highest bidder. Take into account those that have no internet access and those that don't waste their time on these threads and it finally looks like many are finally seeing through the arrl sell out. They stopped speaking for the amateur community many years ago when it became clear they were for every dumb down issue that came around. This latest to put technician class op's on hf with a free upgrade caps them all. Clearly nothing but a fund raiser to attract bodies. The very roots of our amateur foundation have been eaten away by the organization many still support "blindly". All this talk of forming another organization comes to late. Before anything along those lines could possibly come into being this sell out by arrl will already be history. The Americian Ham will have already made the sacrifice the arrl has helped impose on us. I hate to say it guys and gals but it looks like we'll have to take this one on the chin. We really don't need a go between which is more interested in putting a buck in their bank account than preserving our time valued standards. We don't need "quantity" to build up the arrl bank account. We need "quality"... Folks interested in electronics, antennas, just the general gleam in the eye of fascination with radio.
Lets make the tests harder instead of easier so bubba cb can make a ticket and become an arrl member. Remember its easy to take away...to dumb down. You can't put it back after you break it though. The damage is done. There will always now be a terrible split in the ham community. Like i said "thanks for nothing arrl". You brought us to this end. I hope it was worth the price the rest of us will have to pay for the "judas league"
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-19
ARRL failed history
The other day I remembered a piece written by the old man himself W1AW many years back. It went something like this:
Through the years many organizations for radio have come and gone yet the league continues to grow strong. Could it be because the leagues only function is to look out for its fellow hams? Could it be because the league puts ham radio first and money second?... Boy I bet the ole man is rolling over in his grave, God rest his soul and I am happy he's not around now to see what these losers especially ZZ have done to ham radio and the league.
Posted by
THEWISEONE on 2004-02-19
Let me get my violin.
Posted by
KG6AMW on 2004-02-19
what you expect
This is just what you would expect from a extra light and ARRL lackey. Why don't you be a good boy and go play with the other no code slackers on 2m so dadda can devote his time to real hamming?
Posted by
THEWISEONE on 2004-02-19
I'm playing my violin.
Posted by
KG6AMW on 2004-02-19
Showing your typicial "KG" attitude too. 20 years from now those like yourself will "still" be on the outside looking in. Most of us will still be around to remind you. WR8D
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-19
kg prefix sez it all!
hey KG no-code arrl lackey. do us a favor when you play your fiddle. play far far away. I hear 11 meters is good. Just think no coder I got nothing to do for the next 20-30 years but make the slackers life a pure hell.
Posted by
JUICY on 2004-02-19
Hold on, I'll play my violin on a different note.
Posted by
KG6AMW on 2004-02-19
No Comment
5, 13, 20.
In my dreams! Hey, it never stopped anyone sufficiently motivated before, and learning tools of this day and age are worlds better, more advanced.
Oh well.
What is to be gained with an Extra ticket these days aside from significantly more phone privilege? The lower 25Khz of the bottom of the classic bands, where all manner of DX operates. But they are all doing CW down there. And none of them are going 5wpm. So, a requirment that might have better prepared the new Extra licensee, would have been 18 wpm for Extra, 5 wpm for all else, and the addition of HF privilege for No Code Techs, limited to a maximum of 10-20W PEP.
This would have wet many whistles, while keeping an incentive to continue learning and personally enhancing operating skills to include CW, like it or not.
"Just another roadblock" or stumbling block, or hurdle to clear, in the same manner that many of the questions posed concerning theory, are nothing more than hurdles to clear, because many of the questions will be forgotten as they do not apply to most operators everyday station operation. The vast majority of hams at this juncture must send modern rigs in for professional servicing when things malfunction anyway.
So why such exam questions?
Yes, it is true, "I want my, I want my, I want my Ham CB..."
LOL.
Bummer. Perhaps there will be many who will decide to learn CW of their own will, though, and that is alright too. If not, just don't go asking for any CW spectrum for wider bandwidth modes such as SSB/AM phone. If you feel too crowded, move over to CW then, for a while. Plenty of activity there. SSB contest gotcha down, no biggie, try 30m. Move to the CW portions for a while.
Oh, right, would if ya could? One should then best be getting on with learning something useful in ham radio, such as CW.
Posted by
W3DCG on 2004-02-19
ARRL
When did the arrl become the FCC. The last time I look the FCC made the rules. The arrl just gave a purposal. You will have a chance to let the FCC know how you feel. Just make good arguments. While I support the ARRL purposal I can see your points about upgrading TECH's to General. Under the ARRL purposal you could make them Novices and they would get that taste of the HF bands. Just when you reply to the FCC make good arguments for your position. I don't think you will make too many points by telling the FCC that no-coders are stupid and if I had to do it every one should. As for as the code goes In my opinion the FCC did away with that when they made it 5wpm. If a emegency came about and the only way you had to communicate was code at 5wpm the emegency would be over before any meaningful commucation could be made. Like I said before the ARRL is all we have. There is not going to be another organization Too much work, too much time, and too much money. If you don't like it change it.
WB4QNG
Terry
Posted by
WB4QNG on 2004-02-19
ARRL Supporter
The ARRL isn't a perfect organization and their views aren't always precisely aligned with mine, however I do think they work hard to represent all current and future hams. Their appears to be a 'loud' minority on this site that likes to throw their weight around by 'proudly' not renewing their memberships. So be it... go find another place to whine and complain. I'm a life member of the ARRL and will gladly provide additional monetary support over the next few years to help fight BPL and keep the bands available for all of us, even the chronic complainers.
Posted by
AE7I on 2004-02-18
Dogma
It was a great movie, but I don't see how the comparison between the NRA and the ARRL makes any sense. The one organization is involved in issues of constitutional law and civil right; the other is a hobby organization. It would be more accurate to compare the ARRL to the NMRA rather than the NRA. This "debate" sorely lacks a sense of perspective.
Posted by
AE6IP on 2004-02-18
Waste of your money
The dictator of Iraq which we recently dug out of a hole in the ground also had "blind" supporters. Even as he was raping and killing his people off others were "blindly" supporting him. I guess it's just human nature to be made fools of.
As we sit here on this thread the arrl is attacking the foundations of amateur radio. Trying to get standards dumbed down so Bubba cb can get a ham ticket easy. They expect to increase their cash flow by their give away license proposal. Most of us can see through them now. Others are sadly just "sheep" gladly promoting the very organization that is trying to attack and help destroy our great hobby from its foundations. "GIVE AWAY A FREE GENERAL LICENSE"= draw in more members for cash flow. These guys are laughing all the way to the bank with each check you sheep send in. If you have money to throw away find a homeless person just walk up to him and put what you were going to waste with the arrl in his hands. Give it to a church or youth group...but please folks you can't be so damn dumb as to not be able to see through what the arrl is doing. Its our nature to be taken advantage of for the highest buck and sell our souls. Judas did it, nothing has changed in over 2000 years. The thieves just keep getting more sneaky! WR8D
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-18
Waste of your money (cont.)
So now it's "if you don't play the game my way you are the dictator of Iraq" WOW this just keeps getting better and better. Hears a cookie now wipe the tears from your eyes and go play. :) some people need to get a grip. The ARRL is not rapeing the ham comunity. Do you honestly think that the FCC would have kept the code on its own with all the other countries dropping it? No I don't think so. This proposal will give the FCC something to work with and they will most likely follow it. This will hold the code in there for a few more years. Without this proposal the FCC would have removed the code completly sooner or later anyway. This proposal allows you to hang on to it. I don't understand why some can't see this.
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-18
ARRL
In some organizations, the power lies with the elected officials, or Board of Directors. In others, it lies with the hired help. In the ARRL, power is clearly in the hands of the hired help, and has been throughout my 33 years of membership.
The hired help are indeed working for the preservation of Amateur Radio. But their agenda is not our agenda, for theirs is one of self-preservation, while ours is to preserve Amateur Radio pretty much as we know it.
Just try to alter the course of the ARRL through its board if you don't believe it!
I remain an ARRL member, primarity to get QST, but even that provides fewer reasons to continue with each passing month.
Tom Ashley, AA4A
Posted by
AA4A on 2004-02-18
Best of a sorry lot??
I see comments like "they are the best we have" and "the best choice" and such. A lot of resignation is evident, too. That simply means that the ARRL is at the best just the lessor of the evils -- the best of a sorry lot!!
They don't represent amateur radio. They represent themselves and their financial interests. The no-code license increased membership for a while. It also resulted in increased advertising revenue since a lot of new radios were sold. Now that the new is wearing off, it's time to have an upgrade party. Then everyone will want an HF radio, too. More advertising revenue! Success!!!
It has nothing to do with representing amateur radio. Take a look at BPL and see what representation the ARRL provided -- ZERO, ZIPPO, NADA!!!
Posted by
K4KK on 2004-02-18
ARRL
I have no idea how accurate this poll is, but if it is true that 25% of members will not renew, those fellows in Newington better start listening up!
The ARRL has lost touch with its membership core. Their membership core are those members who have supported them for many years, the members whose values remain unchanged despite the constant degradation of standards for admission. It's just a little compromise here and there, but when you add it all up....how much do we need to compromise? Where does it end?
Yes, the ARRL has and continues to do some good things. I don't think they have been very effective at lobbying Washington DC and I know they have been extremely poor at communicating with their members. For those of you that say "It's the only ballgame in town", then you are accepting mediocrity. Don't you think we deserve a little better?
As a member you have the right to question the efficacy and direction the organization takes. When doing so, you should expect to receive the courtesy of a reply. The ARRL has become too big and too arrogant. They presume to know what is best for you. They make it clear that they will not consult with you prior to making important decisions. Do you let someone else run your life and make your decisions? I hope not.
73
Posted by
W7RJR on 2004-02-18
ARRL
W7RJR said "I have no idea how accurate this poll is, but if it is true that 25% of members will not renew, those fellows in Newington better start listening up! The ARRL has lost touch with its membership core" well 25 percent is not a core it is much less than half. Do you expect an organization to support just 25 percent of its membership and ignore the other 75 percent? For some reason that makes no sence to me. If you think they will be making a mistake by loseing that 25 percent what would it be to lose part or all of the other 75 percent. It would make much less sence. I know that not all of that other 75 percent would drop out but you have to admit it is a much larger percentage than 25 percent. In case you havent herd the ARRL is based in the USA which is a democracy. That means the majority rules. The FCC governs ham radio in the USA, yes the same democrocy. Remember the majority rules. Like it or not that is just the way it is. These poles may not be accurate but when they open the notice of proposed rule making for comments that one will be accurate and the majority will rule. It will be interesting to see how it goes. This next year will be very interesting.
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-18
ARRL, again
KD5ZJP stated, "Do you expect an organization to support just 25 percent of its membership and ignore the other 75 percent?"
I never suggested they ignore anyone. But since you mention it, please note that only 46% state unequivocably they will renew. 46% is not 75%, sorry. As pointed out by others who support the proposal, the ARRL is not a democratic organization, they are a reprehensive organization (or as I put it, an autocratic organization). We elect officials to act in our behalf. There is no requirement for them to consult with us before making decisions, but I think it is unwise for them to do so.
I appreciate your reasoned argument and response, but please use a spell checker in the future, it will greatly enhance your credibility.
73
Posted by
W7RJR on 2004-02-18
Wait til they start with the new BandPlan
I understand the League is now working on a new band plan based on bandwidth. I do not see any problems with what we have at the moment. I hope the League does not set out to fix what is not broke. Above all, I hope they do not do another major proposal like this without the members approval again!
73
W5AU
Posted by
W5AU on 2004-02-18
The Big Picture -- THAT'S the question
The ARRL has to face a lot of tough choices right now, BPL and licensing arguably being the hottest ones at present. Faced with a hobby that used to be at the forefront of technology but that now is rapidly becoming an old-timer's club, the ARRL is trying to increase the ranks in the ham community. I've been a ham long enough to remember all the doomsaying that went on when the "Techless Codenician" license proposal came out, and have seen how the doom and destruction really didn't play out. I was also around way back when when we thought TVI -- remember TVI? -- was going to be the end of ham radio.
Like our British friend said a few posts up from this one, it's good that we even have an organization that's fairly closely in tune with the government entity that oversees (loose choice of word, I know) our hobby. Even if you don't agree with everythnig they do, it's better to have a little clout, isn't it? All the better to have the ARRL behind us (in most cases) to add icing to the cake when we write our congressmen on most issues, right?
I'd like to see a similar survey done to find out how many hams have let their licenses expire. If it's anywhere close to the 25 percent who won't be renewing their ARRL memberships, great. That'll make room for all the new licensees who will have the freedom to make their own decision on ARRL membership.
Posted by
K4CMD on 2004-02-18
ARRL (cont.)
Wow it went from if you don’t know code you are not as good as I to if you can’t spell you have no credibility. Is it just me but it seems that those who are fixated on their own superiority are the only ones attempting to correct someone’s spelling or punctuation. Boy I can’t wait till I learn the code and pass the test so I can be perfect. :) Lets look at the above numbers. I know these are not all that accurate but they are the numbers that are in question. Currently 46 percent say they will renew their ARRL membership. 4 percent say they are not a member but will join. 8 percent say they are already a life member so given that some of that 8 percent may drop out because of the new proposal lets count half, 4 percent to be fair. That makes 54 percent that will renew or stay with the ARRL. Now there are currently 25 percent that will not renew. 11 percent that are not a member and will not join. The other half of the life members that is 4 percent. That comes to 40 percent. Oh wait we forgot the ones that are not sure yet. That number currently is 7 percent. To be fair to both sides split it right down the middle as before and add an additional 3.5 percent to both sides. This brings the totals to 57.5 that will renew and 43.5 that will not. In any club or organization that I have ever been a part of that would bring this subject to a vote would pass it with the 57.5 percent Yes vote. If this is any indication what so ever of what the notice of proposed rule making will show, I am afraid to say it is a done deal. Even I a technician can see the writing on the wall. (Spell Checking Sponsored in part by Microsoft Word)
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-18
Spelling
KD5ZJP said, "Wow it went from if you don’t know code you are not as good as I to if you can’t spell you have no credibility."
You can't be serious? I never mentioned code. Why must the code issue always be used as a crutch? My comment regarding spelling was offered as sincere advice, not a criticism.
73
Posted by
W7RJR on 2004-02-18
RECALL arrl directors
You can recall the ARRL directors:
24. In accordance with the provisions of Article 7 of the Articles of Association, members of a territorial division may petition for recall of the director of their division.
Any League member may give notice of proposed recall by mailing to the Secretary by certified mail a letter to that effect. The fact of receipt will be communicated only to Officers, the Director concerned, the sender and the Election Committee. The recall petition shall be presented to the Secretary not later than 75 days after the mailing of the notice of recall and not later than June 1st of the final year of the term of office. A valid petition shall contain the dated signatures obtained on or after the date of mailing of the notice to the Secretary, and will include not less than 10 percent of the number of Full members voting in the election at which the director was elected or not less than 10 percent of the Full members resident in the division on the preceding December 31st if the director was elected without membership balloting. Upon certification by the Election Committee that the petition is valid, the Secretary shall prepare a ballot asking the single question, "Shall the Director be recalled, yes or no." If a majority of the votes cast are for recall, then the office of director shall be declared vacant. No director shall be subject to more than one recall election during a single term of office. A person removed from office by recall, shall not be eligible to be a candidate for Director or Vice Director for three years following removal from office.
10%, just 10%!
Posted by
W9WHE on 2004-02-18
no more fighting
lets quit fighting here so the arrl and fcc can get busy and give me my free hamcb ticket. I knew if I just laid around and did nothing that sooner or later my friends at the arrl would make me a super hamcb. oh i cant wait to get on hf with my new 5 kw lineear. hey hamsters can you tell me if skip is better on 10 meters than 11 meters and where are the hamcb freeband channels at
Posted by
SKIPSHOOTER1 on 2004-02-18
arrl missed the boat
How big does a screw up have to be to stop supporting the arrl? Interesting....This new proposal is so overbroad that anyone with knowlege of the history of radio knows well that this is a huge giveaway if nothing else. While it "might" attract new folks to hf---there are many less damaging ways to do this. For instance---give the entry level licensee 2 hf bands...wouldn't that be good enough? Or are they "demanding" more? The arrl has let the radio amatuer down hard---unforgiveable unless they retract some of this......The code is still a popular mode, anyone who operates or listens on 40, 10 and 80 knows this. Although its popularity is irrellevant---it is a fundemental basis of the concept of radio....it is a soulful gatekeeper which has kept a ton of flaky folks off the air and frankly the arrl is proposing to give it a huge dose of poison---why? The reasons proffered by them on the website are very weak.---sad day---let's make our voices heard in DC----
Posted by
KE6IRP on 2004-02-18
arrl
there are alot of people still just now finding out about all of this and they will join the ranks of the 26% and growing numbers. It is all about the money, and any of you people who think any different are sadly mistaken. The FCC just approved the bpl bill so hf ham radio will be worthless anyways. Ham radio has been a fun hobby for almost 20 years. Time to find a new one and leave the cber's and the bpl to there bidding!
Posted by
AA5GO on 2004-02-18
ARRL Proposal Makes Generals Most Powerful Political Class
>>>New Updated General count after ARRL proposal passes!<<
Posted by
STANTHEHAM on 2004-02-18
New Updated General count after ARRL proposal passes!
>>>New Updated General count after ARRL proposal passes!<<
Posted by
STANTHEHAM on 2004-02-18
New Amateur Organization
Is it time to start the Amateur Radio Operators of America (AROA)?? Kind of like Liberals vs. Conservatives. My guess is most of the Liberals hams are for getting rid of code and exams pretty much altogether while the more Conservative hams are for both keeping the code requirements and for keeping the quality of hams higher by more vigorus testing. I am all for it. I would be one of the Conservative hams who favors keeping the code and sending this hobby in a different direction.
If enough people are ready to go for it, let's stop complaining about the ARRL and start up the AROA. What say you??
Posted by
KC0RCQ on 2004-02-18
and...
and the more Liberal Hams can stay with the ARRL and the more Conservative Hams can come over to the AROA. It is time for a change!
Posted by
KC0RCQ on 2004-02-18
Support the ARRL
ANY organization will never be able to be everything to everyone. Looking at just one of the ARRL's "failures" that many have called it - BPL. Maybe because I am not involved in the industry, I never heard of BPL until I heard about it from the ARRL. I have read the articles, seen the video and heard comments from my peers, thanks to the ARRL. A failure? Where would we be right now WITHOUT the ARRL? I hear a lot of verbiage, but who else is stepping up to the plate and trying to organize against BPL? This is just one issue. Replace BPL with any other important issue of negative impact to Ham Radio. I think the comments and questions I asked will still remain.
Is the ARRL perfect? Of course not. Is it better than no representation at all? ABSOLUTELY! If you don't like what YOUR representatives are doing, run for Section Manager. Run for Division Director. Run for ARRL President. That's democracy in action. That's why I'm proud to have been a Life Member of ARRL for many years. Let's get on the air and enjoy this hobby of ours!
73, W6RTW
Posted by
W6RTW on 2004-02-17
ARRL
Well I read all of the Bravo Sierra above. Whata bunch of children!
The ARRL is the NRA of Amateur Radio.
Enough said!
Jack K7AZN
Posted by
K7AZN on 2004-02-17
NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION
The ARRL has become more and more autocratic! Even when members make their opinion known the ARRL will move against us "for our own good". DO YOU CALL THAT REPRESENTATION? If this proposal goes through the DAMAGE IS DONE! No point in a recall,no point in sending in your dues for 2004 (((GAME OVER)))
Posted by
STANTHEHAM on 2004-02-17
ARRL THE NRA OF AMATEUR RADIO???
To-K7AZN "You say that the ARRL is the NRA of Amateur Radio". Well,what if the NRA changed it's standards and agreed that Hand Guns should NOT be kept in our homes but stored at Sporting Clubs? Would you still support the NRA??? Would you send them your DUES? You are just another ARRL SHEEP,you cant bring yourself to oppose something you love even when you KNOW they are wrong..Case closed!
Posted by
STANTHEHAM on 2004-02-17
STANTHEHAM
Thats a bad analogy. A better one might be if the NRA lobbied to have gun license requirements lowered. I believe most of their members would agree with them.
Posted by
HFDUDE on 2004-02-17
continuing
Actually, the debates are similar.
People always cry that less strict gun laws would create a "wild west" mantality and crime would skyrocket. They don't listen to any arguement or evidence, but statistics show that the more strict the laws are the higher the crime rate goes. ....Not the same, but similar in arguement as the "dumbing down" issue. When the last changes were made many cried the same story they are now but ham radio didn't die and the world didn't end.
Posted by
HFDUDE on 2004-02-17
ARRL THE NRA OF HAM RADIO???
(TO HF DUDE)Man you just don't see the POINT! If you belonged to the NRA and they took a turn in POLICY that undermined their main dogma,you would still support them???
WHY????????????????????????????????? Good Lord Above..with ARRL Sheep like this,WE ARE IN TROUBLE PLENTY!
Posted by
STANTHEHAM on 2004-02-17
Ham Radio Becomes ((HOBBY RADIO))
(TO HFDUDE) Who said Ham Radio would DIE if the ARRL proposal was passed? Who said the World will END? All we are saying is that Ham Radio will CHANGE! It will change from HAM RADIO To ((HOBBY RADIO)) Anyone on the street will be able to get a General license. Is that what we really want?
So the ARRL has written and so it SHALL BE DONE! I only ask all of you to (remember) WHO turned Ham Radio into Hobby Radio. No..it was not the FCC it was the ARRL
Posted by
STANTHEHAM on 2004-02-17
Ham Radio Becomes ((HOBBY RADIO)) (cont.)
STANTHEHAM said "Radio will CHANGE! It will change from HAM RADIO To ((HOBBY RADIO)) Anyone on the street will be able to get a General license. Is that what we really want?". Isn't that what ham radio is, a hobby. Unless you live and breath for ham radio it is a hobby. One that I love but just a hobby. One that serves many great and rewarding purposes. As for anyone on the street getting a general license, isn't that the way it is now? Any US citizen or non US citizen who is not a representitave of a forign government can get a amateur radio license once passing the tests. Why would restructuring the requirements change that? I some how thought that was the way it was suposed to be. Are you wanting ham radio to be reserved for your sole use? I think that defeats the purpose of ham radio. This is KD5ZJP Walter, proud of my call and who I am.
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-17
I got your point, I clarified what I meant in the second post,which was,people are afraid something will happen when that fear is unfounded.
To your second statement about nobody saying ham radio will die...have you read all these posts here? All we keep hearing is how amateur radio will become CB, it will be the end of ham radio, the airwaves will be flooded with LIDS, etc, etc, etc...some feel this WILL be the end. I wasn't refering to you directly, just making a statement.
ARRL sheep? Who said I was a member, or even supported them? I think YOU were the one who missed the point.
Posted by
HFDUDE on 2004-02-17
Ham Radio Becomes ((HOBBY RADIO))
KD5ZJP Said>>Any US citizen or non US citizen who is not a representitave of a forign government can get a amateur radio license once passing the tests. Why would restructuring the requirements change that? I some how thought that was the way it was suposed to be. Are you wanting ham radio to be reserved for your sole use?<< Yes (anyone) who meets the Standards can and should become an Amateur radio op! NOW we are lowering those very standards and people who could not get even 5 wpm code or pass General theory WILL be able to become a General! KD5ZJP- YOU are a good example of this Dumb Down! YOU ARE A TECH..could it be that you somehow BENIFIT by the ARRL proposal? Me thinks that is why you support it. Makes sense to me..YOU GET SOMETHING for nothing. You OWE the ARRL your support but I do not...I (earned) MY GENERAL !
Posted by
STANTHEHAM on 2004-02-17
Whatever radio
Who cares whata call it. hobby, service, whatever just give me my free license now.
Posted by
CRAZYCBER_BRK19 on 2004-02-17
Ham Radio Becomes ((HOBBY RADIO)) (cont.
Well STAN THE HAM MAN. Yes I am a tech that is working on my code and should take my code test by the end of march. I plan to earn my ticket. But the big question is "DID YOU"? I am not sure about the type of radio you talk on but in ham radio we don't use handles we use call signs. Mine is KD5ZJP and I am very proud of what I have accomplished even though you think it is so little. What have you accomplished? Must not be to much if you are ashaimed to post your call, if you have one.
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-17
Not only Yes but YES!
Not only YES, but I'm going to apply to be a Lifer!
Stick THAT up your Yagi, you boycotters!
Posted by
AD7DB on 2004-02-17
ACBL
ARRL = The National Association for
the promotion of Citizens Band on
Amateur frequencies.
After 20+ years they can say adios to
my dues. I can just see myself sending financial support to a CB club.
Posted by
N5KY on 2004-02-17
Jim's boss.
AG4RQ. I think you may not understand a basic fact. You wrote:" I guess my director isn't answerable for shrugging it off either." Did you know that your director is Jim's boss? How many guys will bust down their bosses door and demand things? You should be airing your dirty laundry arguments in front of your director, not here on eHam.
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-16
about
about time the powers that be give us what we deserved for a loooong time now, free hamcb. yassir boss me and my good buddies are getting off of 2m cb and movin up to the big leagues. thank you arrl for the freebees but please make us all extras. its nice to have somebody help all us morons out but course you know we will never join up.
Posted by
SKIPSHOOTER1 on 2004-02-16
ARRL STINKS
I WOULDN'T REJOIN IF MY LIFE DEPENDED ON IT.
Posted by
K7NNG on 2004-02-16
ARRL #1
THE ARRL IS DOING THEIR UTMOST TO DO WHAT THEY CAN FOR THE FRATERNITY.they have APROX. 165000 members. THEY COULD DO A LOT MORE IF MORE PEOPLE WOULD JOIN AND PARTICIPATE. any IDIOT can sit in the back and COMPLAIN.and we all see that here on these threads on E-HAM and QRZ. THEY NEED MORE MEMBERS AND MORE RESOURCES. to fight all these ongoing incursions that HAPPEN.IN MY BOOK THEY ARE (A#1) TOM N2NZJ ARRL MEMBER AND VERY PROUD OF IT. 73
Posted by
N2NZJ on 2004-02-16
The ARRL Speaks For A Minority Not The Majority!
N2NZJ Comments>>>THE ARRL IS DOING THEIR UTMOST TO DO WHAT THEY CAN FOR THE FRATERNITY.<<< Who is this so called (FRATERNITY)? Get it through your head,the ARRL cannot speak for everyone because they will NOT LISTEN TO THEIR OWN MEMBERS!!! Many ARRL members have stated they were IGNORED are they ALL LIARS? THE ARRL IS OUT OF TOUCH WITH IT'S CORE CONSTITUANCY..for this they shall pay a price! Oh..they will recover their losses with all the FREE upgrade crowd. Standards have taken a back seat to long range profit.
Posted by
STANTHEHAM on 2004-02-16
PUT A STOP TO THIS NOW!!
Real Hams BPL is not the villian it is made out to be by the ARRL. BPL is the saving grace of ham radio, without it ham radio will become dominated by a pack of lazy no code screw offs. Drop your ARRL membership now make a real mans statement that you are tired of being a lowly pawn in a rich mans game. Look at the track history of the ARRL everything is done for money in their pockets. ITS NOT TOO LATE! ACT NOW!
Posted by
CAPNJUSTICE on 2004-02-16
ARRL OUT OF TOUCH
From N2EY>>- The BoD minutes are no longer in QST.
- The policy to support code testing at the international level was quietly changed a few years ago without a formal survey of membership opinion
- The results of the 2003 survey were not publicized.
- There is a lack of opposing viewpoints in editorial content of QST and website.
- Some votes of the BoD are kept secret, and motions to make them part of the record defeated.<< The ARRL Is Out Of Touch!
Posted by
STANTHEHAM on 2004-02-16
this and that
The ARRL did listen to its members, at least in the Pacific division, which, by the way did publish the results of its survey. The BoD minutes are online on the ARRL's web site. This month's QST has several letters to the editor on the topic of the proposal, and yes, the con position is represented. It would be very unusual for an editorial in any journal to take a view point opposite that of the journal's publisher, so it's no surprised that the QST editorials are pro. However, QST has published con Op-Ed pieces in the past few months.
Posted by
AE6IP on 2004-02-16
ARRL, CW
I concur with AB7RG - the ARRL is our voice in Washington, they know the national and international situation best, and they're using their collective judgement, with our input through our Directors and SCM's (and my SW Div director, W6XD, does answer my emails) to do the best for all of us. As for CW, I love it, but it can be hard to find someone to work on the CW sub bands. I hear lots of RTTY and PSK31 - will get PSK31 going on the new rig shortly, but CW is the soul of the hobby. As for only 1/3 of hams being ARRL members, of the 2/3 that are not, I'd wager that most are inactive, or else use HT's only. I am still an ARRL member, and would recommend it to any ham, new or old. If I owned a gun, I'd belong to the NRA.
Anyone who posts to this thread should use his current callsign - the posts without callsigns should be ignored, or even deleted by the sysops. And if someone has been mistreated by an ARRL division or section volunteer staffer, he should run against him in the next election, to replace the miscreant and represent us properly.
Posted by
KQ6Q on 2004-02-16
The ARRL Is Autocratic And Out Of Touch!
W4LGH Posted>>What about W4LGH's post. Nobody commented on that. I think what the ARRL did to him and how they treated him is deplorable and inexcusable. I am in W4LGH's district and have the same officers. ---ARRL Folley-- Well I hope all READ this post, and then make your decisions as to whether to SUPPORT or NOT SUPPORT the ARRL. I wrote an email to my Section Manager, he finally responded, saying it was a complicated decision that they had to make, and that if I was coming to the Orlando HamFest, to stop by the ARRL booth and he'd discuss it with me. Well I went to Orlando, and I went to the booth. When asked if the section mgr was there, I was informed he wasn't, but the Southeast Division Vice-President would be more than glad to discuss the new license proposal with me. I was a perfect gentleman, and started in with my OPINION of what they had proposed, when I was RUDELY STOPPED and told...and I QUOTE... " We are NOT interested in what you have to say, you are a F*CKING MINORITY, and DON'T count!" At which point I had to say, Thanks for the GREAT representation, and walk away! Now I am an APPROVALED ARRL ARES EC here in Florida, of which I DONATE my time and efforts to help protect the citizens of my county, this man knew this, as that's how I introduced myself, plus I had on my ARRL EC Name badge. Now as an ARRL Volunteer for my area, and I don't count, is this the kind of representation I wish to continue with? I don't think so. My membership is up for renewal in July, at which time, I will NOT renew and have to step down from my official duties as the area EC. I no longer wish to donate my time to be included with with such an un-professional group! By the way, did any of you other members receive any communication from the ARRL asking your OPINION of such an absurd proposal? Let me further say, I could care less if they do away with CW or not, as a requirement, but in no way do I support just GIVING it away! It will bring an end to what we all know as HAM radio. 73 and thanks for taking the time to read this. de W4LGH - Alan Posted by W4LGH on February 15, 2004<< Stop and THINK before you send the ARRL your dues!
Posted by
STANTHEHAM on 2004-02-16
STANTHEHAM
You are not paying attention. That was not only addressed by Jim Haynie directly, pretty much smashed the whole argument as a fabricated lie. To quote Jim for those who have not been paying attention, "There were NO officers of the ARRL at the convention." It appears obvious that W4LGH was talking to someone who misrepresented himself. What more can be said? Whoever he talked to (no name provided) must have had quite an influence on him. That's too bad. Nobody should be treated that way. But I would hardly hold the ARRL accountable for the action.
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-16
N2EY Makes Some Good Points!
From N2EY>>- The BoD minutes are no longer in QST. - The policy to support code testing at the international level was quietly changed a few years ago without a formal survey of membership opinion - The results of the 2003 survey were not publicized. - There is a lack of opposing viewpoints in editorial content of QST and website. - Some votes of the BoD are kept secret, and motions to make them part of the record defeated.<< The ARRL Is Out Of Touch! How bout THAT N0FP,Is this false as well? There are many complaints out there,some of them MUST BE TRUE!
Posted by
STANTHEHAM on 2004-02-16
STANTHEHAM
Once again, you are going to have to pay attention. The BoD minutes are on the web. If you insist, on repeating threads that have been beat to death in this thread, perhaps you would be good enough to climb out from under your rock and provide your callsign. I'd be happy to help you point your browser directly to the board minutes. As far as taking a silent vote, you obviously have not attended very many club meetings. Standard procedure at many clubs and political meetings is for the Sectretary to tabulate the responses from a vote, announce the results, and offer an opportunity to recount, after which the results are destroyed and the result entered into the minutes. Whether or not this procedure was followed in this instance is not known, nor do I care, since that is an issue for the BoD to decide at the moment. As far as complaints are concerned, everybody can complain about something. But are they willing to do something about fixing the would-be problem? It's very rare. How about you? Are you willing to get involved? I encourage you to change your CB handle to your callsign, if you have one, to lend more credibility to your comments.
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-16
Its not a lie
N0FP, W4LGH's statement was not a lie. Here is another post from him in the "Speakout" thread:>>>W4LGH on 2004-02-16
2nd Post...
I have read all the comments, and the opinions of all the poster on here. Let me go on record here, and say that Jim Haynie called me on the phone personally today to discuss this matter.
What was posted was NOT made up, and their were witness' to the fact and that info has been forwarded to Jim.
In all fairness, Jim has promised me he would get to the bottom of this matter, and correct it. That this is NOT the way he wants the ARRL to be represented.
I do feel better that he took time to look into this matter personally. I do feel as though I was mis-treated, and he wishes to correct this matter and make sure it doesn't happen again.
However I am still un-happy with the current proposal sent to the FCC. It has nothing to do with CODE or NO CODE. I could care less about CW , but I know there are thoughs that do, and I support their right to use CW as a method of communication. No one has proposed to do away with using CW, only the requirement to pass an exam. I have a problem with grandfathering a class of license into a higher class, without any additional testing of that class, and I am speaking about TECHs to GENERAL. Not ADVANCED to EXTRA. The ADVANCED test taken my current advanced class license holder was equal to if not harder than current extra exams. And they are NOT really gaining anything from it.
I also think the ARRL should be more in-touch with its members, especially when making such important decisions.
73 to all, and we'll see how it all shakes out.
W4LGH ARES EC
Alan<<<<
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-16
Its not a lie
Interesting. Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall to hear that conversation!
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-16
Henry,
I support some of it but not ALL of it. I've given up fighting the Code/No Code fight. Mind you as I am writing this I have a KNOW CODE sweatshirt on. I believe that every ham should know some code. That is my belief. It is obvious to me that neither the world, nor the FCC, nor the ARRL agrees with me and so I will stop fighting that battle. If you read the postings on QRZ you would understand my position better. I am a CW op. Better than 98% of the time. I don't believe in giving Technicians GENERAL class privliges. I don't believe I should automatically get EXTRA class privliges either. I am in constant Disagreement on QRZ with Hams that feel the CW ops have space (Specifically 40 meters) that needs to be turned over to all modes so that Phone ops can more readily work DX. I am not hiding anywhere .... My call can be found in any listing.
Posted by
WB2TQC on 2004-02-16
ARRL Support
Gee, it's really sad to see so many vitriolic messages all over support or non-support of an organization. I guess the days of hams and toleration are in decline. At any rate, I'm a life member of the ARRL and when I paid it off (back in 1975, I think), I figured I'd save a bundle if I lived long enough! But as the years rolled on, the ARRL kept of sending out letters soliciting support for the multiple WARC preparations and anti-BPL and so on -- and I felt the need to voluntarily give something back to hobby. Since I couldn't really give back any other way, I sent money. Now, whether one supports these extra-cost things or not, it doesn't really matter, it's just nice to know that an organization is representing hams -- EVEN IF I don't always agree with them. If you don't like the ARRL or don't want to pay the bux for membership, that's OK with me, it won't matter. But I feel it is a responsible thing to and I do it gladly. 73!
Posted by
W2RBA on 2004-02-16
Oh and by the way I haven't yet decided whether or not I will renew my membership. I DO think the ARRL is the only voice we have but I am beginning to wonder if it is truly representative of our opinions. How do they know. Are we periodically polled? What leads them to propose things that seem to be violently opposed. Is it that they honestly believe that they know what is best for us? I'd like to see more evidence that they truly represent what hams actually want. I'd like for them to make their propositions to us BEFORE they propose it to the world. Then if we do not register our feelings on the subjects ... Shame on us. The results of said polls should become a matter of public record in order that it might be challenged by disbelievers. So Henry ... why isn't your alledged call listed anywhere??? You never answered me :(
Posted by
WB2TQC on 2004-02-16
The ARRL Cheated All Generals
I will never renew my ARRL membership and here is why. I worked very hard to pass 13 wpm code and took the general theory test and aced it. I WORKED for everything I got.
What do I stand to loose with this proposal? My pride and I will also be forced to endure SEVERE OVERCROWDING. So..should I upgrade to Extra to escape the crowded bands? WHY should I be forced to upgrade to EXTRA? I have done nothing wrong..I was a Tech who did what he was told to do. I wanted HF so I earned it. I also see the point that many have made here about standards. I can live without a code requirement but to say that NCT needs no additional theory is a dumb down. I can see at minimum 14 questions difference between Tech and General theory! Most of these questions deal with HF! This ARRL proposal simply goes too far and it will not benefit the amateur radio service in the long run. I did not abandon the ARRL..The ARRL abandoned all of us by lowering our standards..73' Stan
Posted by
STANTHEHAM on 2004-02-16
ARRL Membership is a Plus
I am not and have never been ARRL staff. I likely will never be an officer either--no interest. The ARRL polls me from time-to-time. My section director is accessable and even solicits my opinion. I was asked about the CW issues well in advance. My opinion then is the same as now, it doesn't matter. Ham radio is alive and well in the USofA. The 20WPM for Extras and 5 WPM for General change was supposed to be the end of ham radio as we know it. Guess what. The slow-code Extras are just fine folks. Same with the slow code Generals--fine folks. The no-code generals will be assimilated into the rank and file just fine. Frankly, I don't see what all the fuss is about.
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-16
Where's the dumbing down?
Applicants for the General ticket did not always have to pass two written elements. For many years, they needed to pass the identical 50-question Technician/General written examination, and it was possible to skip the Novice altogether and go straight from the streets to Technician or General class. The only difference between a Tech and a General was the code test--5 WPM for Tech and 13 WPM for General.
Technicians in the mid-1990s passed a comprehensive 30-question test. Since April 15, 2000, a even more challenging 35-question Technician written exam has been in place. Today's Technician have been examined successfully on the most common FCC rules, current operating practices, emission modes and power levels up to 1500 W PEP. They also must be knowledgeable of basic propagation phenomena, RF safety and electronic circuit components and practices. In short, today's Technician exam covers the bulk of all amateur radio practices and privileges, very similar to the material covered in today's General written examination.
Current General licensees lose nothing by supporting this proposal, which brings current Technicians--many of whom are not active--into the "mainstream" of Amateur Radio in the 21st century.
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-16
Generals Loose Nothing?
N0FP sez>>>Current General licensees lose nothing by supporting this proposal<<< Gee,as a 13 wpm full theory General I am HAPPY to learn that GENERALS LOOSE NOTHING!!
It seems to me that we loose a GOOD DEAL of our Spectrum to Overcrowding! True..some say that the General frequencies are so BAD now what will a couple hundred thosand more people hurt? I live on General frequencies and it is a Living Hell of Congestion. I also have noticed that this N0FP guy seems to walk the ARRL party line. Have any of you guys noticed this as well? When we make it Sooooo EASY to atain General, we will all see it's effect. I think the New Generals will be happy with their new automatic upgrades but will they be happy 5 years from now? In the future GENERALS WILL BE THE MOST POWERFUL POLITICAL CLASS in numbers! Will they be happy as Generals For LIFE? NO..in time they will DEMAND that the 5 wpm code for Extra be struck down. Who could stand up to 350,000 Generals? By Dumbing Down Code and Theory we create a Political Nightmare and they will WIN and get whatever they want. All who support the ARRL proposal are creating this "General Class Political Stronghold" and in the end the TAIL WILL WAGG THE DOG!
I guess as a General I should be all for this ARRL fiasco..After all..the Generals will one day "RULE THE ROOST" Nobody can fight 350,000 Generals..THANK YOU N0FP..I will one day dictate YOUR privleges! Support the ARRL proposal and you will make the Generals your master...It's A Good Thing!
Posted by
STANTHEHAM on 2004-02-16
JOIN THE ARRL !
All Techs and Generals are urged to now Support the ARRL! Send in your dues..soon Generals will be 350,000 STRONG! We will have the hobby wrapped around our fingers!
With 350,000 Generals we can demand the elimination of code for Extra class. Do not wait a day longer..JOIN THE ARRL!
Posted by
STANTHEHAM on 2004-02-16
I'm not a member and don't intend to be one. What the heck, why pay $40 for a magazine when it should free. Just like my free general ticket that i'm going to get real soon now from the fcc. The arrl isn't isuewing licenses they come from the fcc. Cant wait till my general ticket comes. gonna raise some racket.
Posted by
CRAZYCBER_BRK19 on 2004-02-16
I'm not a member and don't intend to be one. What the heck, why pay $40 for a magazine when it should free. Just like my free general ticket that i'm going to get real soon now from the fcc. The arrl isn't isuewing licenses they come from the fcc. Cant wait till my general ticket comes. gonna raise some racket.
Posted by
CRAZYCBER_BRK19 on 2004-02-16
I'm not a member and don't intend to be one. What the heck, why pay $40 for a magazine when it should free. Just like my free general ticket that i'm going to get real soon now from the fcc. The arrl isn't isuewing licenses they come from the fcc. Cant wait till my general ticket comes. gonna raise some racket.
Posted by
CRAZYCBER_BRK19 on 2004-02-16
I'm not a member and don't intend to be one. What the heck, why pay $40 for a magazine when it should free. Just like my free general ticket that i'm going to get real soon now from the fcc. The arrl isn't isuewing licenses they come from the fcc. Cant wait till my general ticket comes. gonna raise some racket.
Posted by
CRAZYCBER_BRK19 on 2004-02-16
Congested Spectrum?
Well, I suppose you can argue that the bands will have more traffic. This same argument was rampant back in 2000 when the slow coders came on-line. Besides 40M phone, I don't seem to have problems finding a frequency on any mode. It is hoped that now, like then, and like when every ham got his/her license, elmers will step in and help the newbies through the bands. What is appropriate behavior and what is not. Elmers have always been important. The same is true now. The knowledge tested when you got your license is just one tiny part of what it means to be a ham. Compare what you know now to what you knew the day you signed /AG for the first time. Those differences were not on any test. You learned them by getting on the air and operating, and reading ARRL subsidized books and literature. That is exactly the intent of the new rules. Get people on the air. Show them the ropes. Let them make some mistakes and show them how to do it better. Back in 2000, there were some LIDs that bad mouthed the newbies--abusing them on the air. That is not right! This wasn't their fault. They were only doing what was expected of them. And they learned. No differences today than before. The license test is designed to demonstrate that they can safely operate a radio, follow the rules, and enjoy the commeraderie that is Ham Radio. And the ARRL is our only shield against the hoards that want to take away what we now use every day. You can withhold your $39/year, and your voice will never be heard again. 2/3rd of the active hams have made that choice. An individual $39 membership is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Not being a member is fine too. But going out of your way to bad mouth, defame, abuse, and otherwise tear down the ARRL is not OK. Staffers are good people. The officers are honest, hard working folks. Tearing them down is not OK.
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-16
Support The ARRL!
All Techs and Generals are urged to now Support the ARRL! Send in your dues..soon Generals will be 350,000 STRONG! We will have the hobby wrapped around our fingers! With 350,000 Generals we can demand the elimination of code for Extra class. Do not wait a day longer..JOIN THE ARRL!
Posted by
STANTHEHAM on 2004-02-16
The ARRL They Are A Good Thang!
I think the New Generals will be happy with their new automatic upgrades but will they be happy 5 years from now? In the future GENERALS WILL BE THE MOST POWERFUL POLITICAL CLASS in numbers! Will they be happy as Generals For LIFE? NO..in time they will DEMAND that the 5 wpm code for Extra be struck down. Who could stand up to 350,000 Generals? By Dumbing Down Code and Theory we create a Political Nightmare and they will WIN and get whatever they want. All who support the ARRL proposal are creating this "General Class Political Stronghold" and in the end the TAIL WILL WAGG THE DOG! I guess as a General I should be all for this ARRL fiasco..After all..the Generals will one day "RULE THE ROOST" Nobody can fight 350,000 Generals..THANK YOU N0FP..I will one day dictate YOUR privleges! Support the ARRL proposal and you will make the Generals your master...It's A Good Thing!
Posted by
STANTHEHAM on 2004-02-16
No way!! Even if they paid me to join!
Never joined, never will. I resent them lobbying the FCC to give away what myself and thousands of other hams worked hard to obtain. I cannot support an organization that wishes to make money at the expense of trashing the bands. I cant believe they have so many folks bamboozled into thinking they represent anything but their own $elf $erving agenda.
Posted by
KE4ZHN on 2004-02-16
No way!! Even if they paid me to join!
Never joined, never will. I resent them lobbying the FCC to give away what myself and thousands of other hams worked hard to obtain. I cannot support an organization that wishes to make money at the expense of trashing the bands. I cant believe they have so many folks bamboozled into thinking they represent anything but their own $elf $erving agenda.
Posted by
KE4ZHN on 2004-02-16
W4LGH's post - ARRL Folly
What about W4LGH's post. Nobody commented on that. I think what the ARRL did to him and how they treated him is deplorable and inexcusable. I am in W4LGH's district and have the same officers.
<<
Well I hope all READ this post, and then make your decisions as to whether to SUPPORT or NOT SUPPORT the ARRL. I wrote an email to my Section Manager, he finally responded, saying it was a complicated decision that they had to make, and that if I was coming to the Orlando HamFest, to stop by the ARRL booth and he'd discuss it with me. Well I went to Orlando, and I went to the booth. When asked if the section mgr was there, I was informed he wasn't, but the Southeast Division Vice-President would be more than glad to discuss the new license proposal with me. I was a perfect gentleman, and started in with my OPINION of what they had proposed, when I was RUDELY STOPPED and told...and I QUOTE... " We are NOT interested in what you have to say, you are a F*CKING MINORITY, and DON'T count!" At which point I had to say, Thanks for the GREAT representation, and walk away! Now I am an APPROVALED ARRL ARES EC here in Florida, of which I DONATE my time and efforts to help protect the citizens of my county, this man knew this, as that's how I introduced myself, plus I had on my ARRL EC Name badge. Now as an ARRL Volunteer for my area, and I don't count, is this the kind of representation I wish to continue with? I don't think so. My membership is up for renewal in July, at which time, I will NOT renew and have to step down from my official duties as the area EC. I no longer wish to donate my time to be included with with such an un-professional group! By the way, did any of you other members receive any communication from the ARRL asking your OPINION of such an absurd proposal? Let me further say, I could care less if they do away with CW or not, as a requirement, but in no way do I support just GIVING it away! It will bring an end to what we all know as HAM radio. 73 and thanks for taking the time to read this. de W4LGH - Alan
Posted by W4LGH on February 15, 2004>>>
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-16
W4LGH's post - ARRL Folly
What about W4LGH's post. Nobody commented on that. I think what the ARRL did to him and how they treated him is deplorable and inexcusable. I am in W4LGH's district and have the same officers. ---ARRL Folley-- Well I hope all READ this post, and then make your decisions as to whether to SUPPORT or NOT SUPPORT the ARRL. I wrote an email to my Section Manager, he finally responded, saying it was a complicated decision that they had to make, and that if I was coming to the Orlando HamFest, to stop by the ARRL booth and he'd discuss it with me. Well I went to Orlando, and I went to the booth. When asked if the section mgr was there, I was informed he wasn't, but the Southeast Division Vice-President would be more than glad to discuss the new license proposal with me. I was a perfect gentleman, and started in with my OPINION of what they had proposed, when I was RUDELY STOPPED and told...and I QUOTE... " We are NOT interested in what you have to say, you are a F*CKING MINORITY, and DON'T count!" At which point I had to say, Thanks for the GREAT representation, and walk away! Now I am an APPROVALED ARRL ARES EC here in Florida, of which I DONATE my time and efforts to help protect the citizens of my county, this man knew this, as that's how I introduced myself, plus I had on my ARRL EC Name badge. Now as an ARRL Volunteer for my area, and I don't count, is this the kind of representation I wish to continue with? I don't think so. My membership is up for renewal in July, at which time, I will NOT renew and have to step down from my official duties as the area EC. I no longer wish to donate my time to be included with with such an un-professional group! By the way, did any of you other members receive any communication from the ARRL asking your OPINION of such an absurd proposal? Let me further say, I could care less if they do away with CW or not, as a requirement, but in no way do I support just GIVING it away! It will bring an end to what we all know as HAM radio. 73 and thanks for taking the time to read this. de W4LGH - Alan Posted by W4LGH on February 15, 2004---
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-16
W4LGH's post
After reading what W4LGH had to say about his personal experience with the ARRL, who in their right minds would continue their membership? If I had known how bad that corrupt organization was, I never would have joined in the first place back in 1995. We need a class action lawsuit against the ARRL to have all our dues that we paid them over the years refunded to us. I guess having my e-mails go unanswered wasn't as bad as being mean-mouthed and verbally abused in person by one of their officers, like W4LGH was.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-16
NEVER!
ARRL failures:
1) 220 Mhz
2) BPL
3) The antenna bill
4) The spectrum bill.
Heck. The PETA cooks are more effective then ARRL is.
W9WHE
Proudly supporting the ARRL boycott
Posted by
W9WHE on 2004-02-16
Get On With It
AG4RQ, Yep we know you don't like the ARRL or it's position on issues. Why don't you start your own organization and get on with it. Seems that there are others here who would join you.
Posted by
KG6AMW on 2004-02-16
Get On With It
W9WHE, Yep we know you don't like the ARRL or it's position on issues. Why don't you start your own organization and get on with it. Seems that there are others here who would join you.
Posted by
KG6AMW on 2004-02-16
NEVER!
ARRL failures FAR exceed their miniscule successes:
1) 220 Mhz
2) BPL
3) The antenna bill
4) The spectrum bill.
Now, any successes other than fat retirement accounts? Heck. The PETA cooks are more effective then ARRL is.
W9WHE
Proudly supporting the ARRL boycott
Posted by
W9WHE on 2004-02-16
For the record-
There were NO officers of the ARRL at the convention.
Second, AG4RQ - Please submit any evidence of corruption (as you say) to me directly and I will see that action is taken. I look forward to your data.
Jim
Posted by
W5JBP on 2004-02-16
Start own organization
KG6AMW, if I had the finances, I WOULD start a rival organization to take the place of the ARRL. I would see to it that it would be an organization truly of, by and for hams - all hams, not a pet segment. There would be zero tolerance for self-interest and abuse of power. It would be an organization where the majority rules, with rights for the minority. All it takes is loads of money, which I don't have. All of what I described was what I thought the ARRL was. Silly me!
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-16
WHY WAIT TO NON-RENEW, WHEN YOU CAN CANCEL NOW AND GET A REFUND!
W9WHE
Cancelled my ARRL membership
Posted by
W9WHE on 2004-02-16
AG4RQ for President
An alternate association would be a great thing. Why not? You don't need no stinking money. Just go do some good. Demonstrate that you are doing good things and even I would join your association. Put together an agenda, gather support from like-minded people, and start doing good for ham radio. People will flock to you in droves.
Ford-N0FP
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-16
W5JBP
W5JBP, what about W4LGH's account of what he was a victim of at the Orlando Hamfest? As for corruption, what do you call making a proposal to the FCC without a membership referendum first? I'm not the only one up in arms over this proposal. Also, when I sent Frank Butler my third e-mail on 1/27/04, I sent you a cc. Neither of you gave me the courtesy of a reply. What I see through all of this is that the League has something to hide. Nothing was done up front and out in the open. All of a sudden, the League's horrendous proposal is announced without consulting the membership. Is this what I pay dues for? I have no voice. I don't even get a reply to my e-mails. Failure to reply to 3 e-mails tells me that the League doesn't give a rat's butt about my opinion.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-16
N0FP
N0FP, I have been working together with a group of hams to draft a proposal to the FCC that would give no-coders some HF privileges, but not a wholesale giveaway like the ARRL proposed. When it is finished, the new proposal will be something sensible and practical, and something everyone except the most hard-core militants on either side of the code issue can live with. One thing we all need to keep in mind, including the FCC is that WRC's decision last July does NOT call for a mandatory abolition of Morse proficiency testing. The decision to keep it or drop it rests with each individual country. Russia has already said "Nyet" to dropping it. Many other countries are undecided, and may also say no to dropping it. We need to have a sensible and practical solution to the code/no-code issue, so we can put the issue behind us without bad feelings. To stand pat would cause bad feelings on the part of the no-coders. To go the other extreme, as the ARRL proposed would cause bad feelings on the part of many of those who worked hard for their privileges. An equitable solution must be found so we can put the issue behind us, and there can also be an end to the divisiveness that this issue has caused.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-16
W4LGH & W5JBP
I believe Jim did respond to W4LGH's accusation of abuse. Read Jim's post again. He said: "There were NO officers of the ARRL at the convention." It appears obvious that W4LGH was talking to someone who misrepresented himself. What more can be said?
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-16
QUOTE: "As for corruption, what do you call making a proposal to the FCC without a membership referendum first?"
I suggest you look up the word "corruption" in your dictionary.
As to being CC'ed on e-mail and expecting a response, seldom do I do that. I am copied on hundreds of messages that the "To" person would normally respond.
Jim
Posted by
W5JBP on 2004-02-16
Alternate Proposals
AG4RQ--I'm glad you are choosing to get involved in a positive manner. An alternate proposal is good. The ARRL's elected officers met to craft a document that reflected a reasonable approach to future licensing. The proposal is just that--a proposal. The FCC will make its decision based on ARRL's, FIST's, AG4RQ's, and about 99 other proposals, all of which are variations on similar themes.
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-16
Whiners
I must admit that I didn't read ALL of the comments. Didn't really have to.
The majority are from folks whining about the failures of the ARRL protecting us against BPL and other spectrum issues.
Well, I'm not a religious man, but let me quote this ~ "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".
What do I mean by that statement?
How many of those complaining about the ARRL (member or not) have written their Senators and Congressmen/women and asked them to co-sponsor HR 713 (House) and S 537
(Senate), the Amateur Radio Spectrum Protection Act as it has been
introduced into each of these houses?
I'd bet real money that the majority of the whiners haven't taken the time to write their letters.
How could I make such a statement you wonder? Well, of the 670,000 licensed hams in the USA, only 5900 wrote letters. That translates into only 0.88% of the ham population.
You betcha I wrote my letters. And when I didn't get a response, I wrote again.
Whether you like and/or support the ARRL or not is a matter of personal choice, but if you want to see us maintain our portion of the spectrum, you'd better be writing those letters or else just shut-up and sell your equipment while you still can.
Posted by
W8KPH on 2004-02-16
Results of survey:
ONLY 4% of non-members, will join.
WHILE 14% of existing members will not renew.
NET LOSS of 10%
WAY TO GO ARRL!
W9WHE
Supporting the ARRL boycott
Posted by
W9WHE on 2004-02-16
Support RAC formarly CARF
Hello from Canada
I support the Canadain organization RAC and formarly supported CARF the Canadain based organization. I never ever supported ARRL or CRRL their renamed Canadian Division.ARRL has been failing most Hams since "Incentive Licencing" came into USA in the late 60s. I did not ever like how the Licence Classes gave you a more Bandwidth when you Upgraded. I did not want the ARRL poision of Incentive Licencing to come to Canada. I started to study for my Ham Ticket that year '68. We had 2 classes of licence in Canada at that time Basic & Advanced Advanced giving you Phone Privelges on the HF bands. The bands were only split up for CW RTTY section and Phone section. We had our restructuring in the early 90s and Morse Code gave you HF privelges you got the privelge to run more power with your advanced ticket. Basic holders are limited to 250 watts cannot build transmitters or modify commercial rigs.I support our Canadian Organization.
73
Gerry
Posted by
VE7BGP on 2004-02-16
Proud ARRL Member!
I have been a member since 1986. The ARRL is my link to the FCC and its rules. Like anything in the government, I wont agree with it all, however I still support my agency!
de KJ7XJ ..
Posted by
KJ7XJ on 2004-02-16
Proud ARRL Member!
I have been a member since 1986. The ARRL is my link to the FCC and its rules. Like anything in the government, I wont agree with it all, however I still support my agency!
de KJ7XJ ..
Posted by
KJ7XJ on 2004-02-16
W5JBP
W5JBP, all I see is excuses. That's what I get for trying to argue with a politician.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-16
N0FP
That's right. The FCC will make the final decision. At present there are 14 proposals with RM numbers. The ARRL proposal, if accepted by the FCC and given an RM number will make 15. As for the proposal that I am a party to, I am not its author, but I've been contributing to it. That one, if accepted by the FCC and given an RM number will make 16. I hope when the FCC studies all the proposals and the comments, that they come to a rational decision. Comments such as "I had to learn code, so everyone else should also", and "I can't learn code, so testing should be dropped" shouldn't even be taken seriously by the FCC. People need to present valid arguments in their comments instead of just saying "I agree with this proposal" or "I disagree with this proposal". BTW, go to http://www.wiavic.org.au/mcw/arch6.html#b and read the segment about Russia, and their reasons for keeping Morse proficiency testing.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-16
China's licensing system
BTW, look at China's licensing system at http://www.jarl.or.jp/iaru-r3/12r3c/docs/058.doc. What they're doing isn't a bad idea either. I mention Russia and China because Russia is the largest nation on earth, and China is the most populated nation on earth. Neither is a puny third world nation.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-16
Cancel NOW
Well when I hear people talk like this it reminds me of when I was a small child on the playground and one of the spoiled kids would say "if you don't play the game the way I want then I am going to take my toys and go home". I think this is a silly way of acting. To bad learning the code doesn't teach maturity. What I think that we all should be more concerned with than the decline of the code is the decline of elmering. Where is the numbers on this. This should be one of the next polls. All you old time diehard CW'ers ask yourself, "When was the last time I elmered someone". When was the last time you opened your shack to a nonham who is interested or to a new tech that wants to learn. When was the last time you showed them your collection of old keys and QSL cards from all corners of the world. When was the last time you told the story of the first CW contact you made and let them see in your eyes how much pride and accomplishment you felt on that day. When was the last time you bothered to be a teacher not a complainer? Now ask yourself where does the real problem lie? Is it with the ARRL and the FCC for not playing the game your way or is it with you?
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-16
Ballot stuffing
Real neat! Hit refresh about every minute and watch the numbers change. Another loop?
Posted by
W5JBP on 2004-02-16
Ballot Stuffing
Jim, I've been watching the same thing. Somebody is playing games. VK5LA is the moderator of this free-for-all. I would be interested in asking him to look into the email addresses used for this poll. Particularly in the last day or so. It is clear to me in this and other polls with high emotional energy, the methods used lack credibility.
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-16
Ballot stuffiing
Says a lot about internet polls eh?
Posted by
W5JBP on 2004-02-16
Poll Results
Jim, another interesting fact is that eHam has an international audience. If you were ZL7HAM, you would likely answer using the last choice on the list. The other interesting fact is, like Florida, there are hanging chads buried in the question. For example, if you were not currently a member, you would likely incorrectly answer using the second "no" response instead of the correct answer, the fifth choice. If this was a true vote, the ratios of the answers for 1 and 2 should be approximately 1/2 of the total responses, if the general population were to vote.
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-16
Poll Results
Sorry, I said "instead of the correct answer, the fifth choice" but meant sixth choice...
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-16
Time For A Change!
I have been an ARRL member off and on through the years.I will not return to the ARRL until they return to maintaining Standards over Profits! The ARRL will always have their Sheep that follow no matter what direction the ARRL takes. We see the same thing in the general population.
It is TIME for an ALTERNATIVE to the ARRL. The ARRL is so entrenched in our hobby and service that creating another organization would take a monumental effort of free thinking people.
Just look at this ARRL proposal..it passed with almost NO objection! Yet there is serious objection within Amateur Radio! That has got to tell us something..perhaps like it's members,the BoD also has this Sheep mentality! One jumps over a cliff and the others just follow. Has the ARRL become an organization of Mind Numb Robots? Leadership and Standards seem to be their greatest problem.
Democracy demands that we speak with MANY VOICES not just one voice! When the ARRL refuses to listen to ALL Voices they do a great injustice to all of us..W8VOM
Posted by
W8VOM on 2004-02-16
Polls are questionable
These polls, although I take part in them, are unscientific and are questionable at best. I don't pay too much attention to the results of eHam polls. Flaws in the system on this site cannot be helped. It is possible for someone to register with multiple accounts and vote more than once. If there was a way to take a poll where it could be limited to one callsign - one vote, maybe these polls could be more credible.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-16
call ems
The way FP has his face so close to The ARRL presidents ass, if Jim ever stops fast ole FP is going to need a neck brace. Whats a matter you guys don't like the Poll, wait a minute most of you slackers were praising the accurate results of it on the other poll. I see the numbers are rising quite fast, ARRL you yes men better rewrite that proposal before its too late.
Posted by
THEWISEONE on 2004-02-16
Join the arrl, heck no. All they care bout is money. qst should be free with all the advartisin in it. bring it on fcc i want my free license.
Posted by
CRAZYCBER_BRK19 on 2004-02-16
AG4RQ. Oh no sir, you are not going to take the easy, "its like talking to a politician way out". The President of the ARRL called you on your assertion of corruption. What say you? You and W9WHE have been going on and on here on this website for weeks about how rotten the ARRL is. Time to put up or shut up. BOTH OF YOU.
Posted by
KG6AMW on 2004-02-16
Hey dere arrl how bout a free top dog license -extra. Id donate $50 to ya for a top dog license.
Posted by
CRAZYCBER_BRK19 on 2004-02-16
KG6AMW
KG6AMW, it is suspected by some hams that there might be collusion between the ARRL and the FCC regarding this proposal. I don't know if this is true or not. Therefore, I cannot make any outright declarations. We will all see what happens when the smoke clears. We will see if there was an agreement between the League and the FCC behind closed doors before the League's proposal was even made public. As for the "President of the ARRL", he conveniently brushed off my e-mail, making excuses for why he didn't answer it. I guess my director isn't answerable for shrugging it off either. As for you, I wasn't addressing you. Why don't you mind your own damned business. Nobody likes a busybody that butts into everyone elses business.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-16
ARRL
Money for Nothing...Chicks for Free... I want my...I want my....I want my HAM CB Upgrades for Nothing...Bands for Free... I want my...I want my....I want my HAM CB EchoLink for Nothing...DX for Free... I want my...I want my....I want my Echolink BPL! Ham Radio will change! Free Upgrades to General and Echolink at BPL Speeds...Who could ask for...Who could ask for...Who could ask for MORE?
Posted by
CRAZYCBER_BRK19 on 2004-02-16
I No Longer Support The ARRL
Many years ago I used to be a strong supporter of the ARRL. What changed my mind? They used to be more interested in Standards and the ARRL had not yet become a "Business". I believe that today they are far more concerned with the dollars that new members bring in! This Proposal of theirs will bring in 3 new members for every member that resigns. They have done their homework..The Techs are Very Happy now and they will reward the ARRL in droves! The BPL issue is nothing more than a smoke screen to divert attention *away* from their pecuniary and reductionist minded proposal. While BPL is a minor concern and should be opposed...it will Never See Wide Spread Acceptance. When the Utility folks see their subscribers cancel out,WHO is going to PAY their losses? YOU are and the ARRL already knows this! Again...the ARRL is Pumping Up this BPL fight to Detract from their once...Greatly Opposed proposal. Many of you bought into this BPL Bait and Switch..You have been had by a very clever tactic.
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself AND the ARRL... "Hobby Radio" is on it's way and thier dream has come true..ANYONE can become a General! Send your money to the ARRL..who cares..it's just a HOBBY now!
Posted by
W8VOM on 2004-02-15
Never was a member, never will be
The ARRL is not real. Neither are no-code hams. There is no such thing as a no-code ham. They are pseudo-hams, ham wannabes or CB'ers. Real hams do CW. CW is ham radio and ham radio is CW. Ham radio void of CW is nothing more than CB.
73 from DUALGATEMOSFET
aka
"The Epitaxial One"
Posted by
DUALGATEMOSFET on 2004-02-15
Alternative?
I will renew once again because the ARRL is protecting the hobby from a sell-off by the corporate owned politicians. However, my mind is open to an alternate organization proposal by others who may better represent the hobby as I see it. Right now there is no good alternative so I think we best support the only effective voice we have.
Posted by
K8NQC on 2004-02-15
Alternative?
I will renew once again because the ARRL is protecting the hobby from a sell-off by the corporate owned politicians. However, my mind is open to an alternate organization proposal by others who may better represent the hobby as I see it. Right now there is no good alternative so I think we best support the only effective voice we have.
Posted by
K8NQC on 2004-02-15
Hell Yeah!!!
I'm gonna become a member since I'm soon gonna be a General thanks to the ARRL.
Posted by
TECH2003 on 2004-02-15
Hell Yeah!!!
I'm gonna become a member since I'm soon gonna be a General thanks to the ARRL.
Posted by
TECH2003 on 2004-02-15
Keep CW Testing
TECH2003 and those like him are the very reason why we should keep code testing. Have you seen this guy's profile? His only radio is a Ranger 2950. he doesn't even own a 2m rig. He is a hard-core freebander that is looking for a free no-work General, so he could be able to use that 2950 legally on 10. In his profile, he says "My favorite thing to do in ham radio is... Because? Talk", "My equipment consists of... A radio with a ruber duck antenna on it. Ranger 2950", "I am a member of the following ham radio clubs... NCI", "I have earned the following accomplishments in ham radio... I have achieved my technician class license and only studied one weekend.", and "I would like to try the following new things in ham radio in the next 10 years... I will upgrade to HF when that stupid CW is eliminated. Tell them old farts to die off so us new hams can move ahead with the future." It is code testing that keeps freebanders like TECH2003 on 27 MHz and off the HF ham bands. If people like this are allowed a free ride to HF, it will make me ashamed to admit that I'm a ham!
73 from DUALGATEMOSFET
AKA
"The Epitaxial One"
Posted by
DUALGATEMOSFET on 2004-02-15
No renewal for me...
I agree with three license classes, I agree with an entry class not requiring a code test...but I do not agree with 'grandfathering' no-code techs into the HF bands...Some knowledge of HF propagation and operating procedures should be required. Dumping these guys with little or no information onto the busiest portions of the HF bands, where most nets operate, is a formula for disaster...I am a code guy and I will always prefer CW over phone. However, lots of the band sections that are set aside for code, sit vacant most of the time. Why not set aside sections of these bands similar to the old novice bands for these newbies...after testing them...where those who are inclined can talk with them and help Elmer them...away from the crowd...'No-code' is going to happen, and I will welcome our new fellow HF operators, but let's use a little common sense and try to do it right.
Posted by
K5FZ on 2004-02-15
No renewal for me...
I agree with three license classes, I agree with an entry class not requiring a code test...but I do not agree with 'grandfathering' no-code techs into the HF bands...Some knowledge of HF propagation and operating procedures should be required. Dumping these guys with little or no information onto the busiest portions of the HF bands, where most nets operate, is a formula for disaster...I am a code guy and I will always prefer CW over phone. However, lots of the band sections that are set aside for code, sit vacant most of the time. Why not set aside sections of these bands similar to the old novice bands for these newbies...after testing them...where those who are inclined can talk with them and help Elmer them...away from the crowd...'No-code' is going to happen, and I will welcome our new fellow HF operators, but let's use a little common sense and try to do it right.
Posted by
K5FZ on 2004-02-15
Don't always agree, but still support ARRL
I do not always agree with ARRL- especially in the latest restructuring proposal (grandfathering no-code techs into general is NOT good. something has to be done to amend that)
However, who else will fight the "good fight" for us? (BPL, WARC, etc)
Posted by
WA2DTW on 2004-02-15
Let's use a little common sense and try to do it right.
K5FZ is right. What should be given to the newbies are the Novice sub bands. Allocate 2/3 for phone and 1/3 of each Novice sub band for digital/CW and grant the NCTs HF privileges on what is now the Novice sub bands on 15, 40 and 80m. The 10m Novice sub band structure would remain the same. Have 28.1-28.3 got digital/CW and 28.3-28.5 for phone. Leave the current testing criteria for both General and Extra as is.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-15
worst...
ARRL is the worst large scale support and representative organization for US hams ever, except for every other one. Yes, it has warts. Yes, its ossified field organization has wide variations in effectiveness. No, it does not count among its membership anywhere close to the majority of US licenced hams. No, it does not adequately represent the interests of the amteur radio community. But when riding in the desert, it is not wise to shoot your only horse if it happens to wander. It beats walking.
73,
And that is MY_OPINION
Posted by
MY_OPINION on 2004-02-15
I'll walk.
I'll walk.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-15
I'll walk.
I'll walk. Let the multitudes "ride" (free, that is).
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-15
All about money?
I have to chuckle when I read the ignorant quips of the anti-ARRL bunch on this thread. The say it's all about money. That ARRL didn't do this or didn't do that. What a bunch of ignorant jerks. You folks don't deserve a ticket!
Let's see... People think that they are buying a subscription to a magazine for $39/yr. The truth is, the magazine costs the ARRL nothing to produce. Advertisers pay the freight. Does it make money? It's a break even deal. The $39 pays for the lab, DXCC desk subsidy, the Buro, web presence, the Big Project, subsidized literature and publication, and perhaps most importantly, lobbying for our cause in Washington and around the world. If you cannot find $39 of value in the above list of services, then you must be brain dead and on artificial life support!
Many of the ARRL officers are non-paid volunteers. The staff get paid, because they have mortgages like everybody else. But nobody's getting rich!
Some fool has been spewing in eHam thread after eHam thread some gibberish about somebody not responding to his email. Last time I logged on, I had to delete 15 bogus emails. My ISP tells me that they delete 3-4 viruses and over 250 emails a day without me ever seeing them. Email, as much as we appreciate it, is a long way from reliable. Next time you need something, just pick up the phone and call the ARRL. I have yet to be disappointed in their email response and the telephone still works in Newington.
It's all about money? Yes it is. The $39 that is still in your pocket because you are too cheap to support the only game in town.
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-15
All about money?
I have to chuckle when I read the ignorant quips of the anti-ARRL bunch on this thread. The say it's all about money. That ARRL didn't do this or didn't do that. What a bunch of ignorant jerks. You folks don't deserve a ticket!
Let's see... People think that they are buying a subscription to a magazine for $39/yr. The truth is, the magazine costs the ARRL nothing to produce. Advertisers pay the freight. Does it make money? It's a break even deal. The $39 pays for the lab, DXCC desk subsidy, the Buro, web presence, the Big Project, subsidized literature and publication, and perhaps most importantly, lobbying for our cause in Washington and around the world. If you cannot find $39 of value in the above list of services, then you must be brain dead and on artificial life support!
Many of the ARRL officers are non-paid volunteers. The staff get paid, because they have mortgages like everybody else. But nobody's getting rich!
Some fool has been spewing in eHam thread after eHam thread some gibberish about somebody not responding to his email. Last time I logged on, I had to delete 15 bogus emails. My ISP tells me that they delete 3-4 viruses and over 250 emails a day without me ever seeing them. Email, as much as we appreciate it, is a long way from reliable. Next time you need something, just pick up the phone and call the ARRL. I have yet to be disappointed in their email response and the telephone still works in Newington.
It's all about money? Yes it is. The $39 that is still in your pocket because you are too cheap to support the only game in town.
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-15
All about money?
I have to chuckle when I read the ignorant quips of the anti-ARRL bunch on this thread. The say it's all about money. That ARRL didn't do this or didn't do that. What a bunch of ignorant jerks. You folks don't deserve a ticket!
Let's see... People think that they are buying a subscription to a magazine for $39/yr. The truth is, the magazine costs the ARRL nothing to produce. Advertisers pay the freight. Does it make money? It's a break even deal. The $39 pays for the lab, DXCC desk subsidy, the Buro, web presence, the Big Project, subsidized literature and publication, and perhaps most importantly, lobbying for our cause in Washington and around the world. If you cannot find $39 of value in the above list of services, then you must be brain dead and on artificial life support!
Many of the ARRL officers are non-paid volunteers. The staff get paid, because they have mortgages like everybody else. But nobody's getting rich!
Some fool has been spewing in eHam thread after eHam thread some gibberish about somebody not responding to his email. Last time I logged on, I had to delete 15 bogus emails. My ISP tells me that they delete 3-4 viruses and over 250 emails a day without me ever seeing them. Email, as much as we appreciate it, is a long way from reliable. Next time you need something, just pick up the phone and call the ARRL. I have yet to be disappointed in their email response and the telephone still works in Newington.
It's all about money? Yes it is. The $39 that is still in your pocket because you are too cheap to support the only game in town.
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-15
To N0FP
You're the same nut that locked horns with W8VOM. You are one of those fanatics that will jump off a cliff for the "League", yet have the nerve to criticize those who don't fall in line with your thinking. Your precious "League" is a self-centered organization full of political cronies that are out for their own self interest. The League sold out its traditional supporters for a flood of new members belonging to the no-code group. As for BPL, I already made my assessment of that situation known. Go run and hide behind the League. Give them your hard-earned money. I know better. The Great White Elephant of the 21st Century will do no harm. Selling out to the no-coders and putting the fear of BPL into hams is their fund-raising tactics. It seems to be quite effective. Go run and hide. BPL is coming. Hi Hi! As for the League ignoring my e-mails, don't make excuses for your god. Newington chose to ignore my e-mails. it had nothing to do with viruses or anything like that.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-15
To N0FP (continued)
Failure to respond to 3 e-mails at 3 different times has nothing to do with a virus, or the possibility that they didn't receive them. The probability of that happening 3 separate times during 2 separate months is less than the probability of winning the Lotto.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-15
ARRL Supported
All the naysayers, take yourselves and ham radio too seriously.
You think you are doing the ham ranks a favor by not joining the league? Guess again, you only hurt yourself and others.
Money? Of course. Everyone has to make a living. You think the league should be self sufficient?
K2WH
Posted by
K2WH on 2004-02-15
K2WH:
First, lets get something straight. I've been a League member for 8 1/2 years. My membership is currently active. Although I am leaning heavily toward not renewing, that is a decision that I don't have to make until August. As for N0FP, with his cheap shot that "The $39 that is still in your pocket because you are too cheap to support the only game in town", it has nothing to do with being cheap. Its a matter of principle. I don't exactly see the League contacting me to explain why they ignored my e-mails. I don't see the League trying to diffuse my anger and trying to salvage my membership.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-15
ARRL 100% suport
I have been licensed for 26 years, and changes need to be made. I have high school kids and cannot spark the intrest of ham radio into them or to their freinds. Right now their are just to many other other activities that have more appeal to them.
Posted by
N0CGF on 2004-02-15
the right to vote...
I don't remember the League asking for their membership's opinions...on anything...did I miss something...Since the League doesn't put important issues up for a vote from their general membership, membership itself seems to be the only way a member has to let them know how they feel. I sent them an email letting them know how I felt...it too was ignored...
I am sure they are busy...too busy to respond to their customers or members...I call that out of touch...I am sure they will survive without my membership/39.95, maybe things will improve down the road without my membership...but until then, I will register my discontent the only way that I can...and maybe someday I will come back.
For now, to quote my hero Forrest Gump, 'That's all I have to say about that.'
Posted by
K5FZ on 2004-02-15
The fact that the ARRL didn't put the issue up before the entire membership for a vote, along with ignoring our e-mails tells me that the League has something to hide. What they have to hide is that they took it upon themselves to decide what's best for ham radio, and they don't care how their dues-paying members feel about the issue. The fact is that they just went sneaking behind everybody's back and rammed their agenda down our throats. Their agenda is more numbers = more members. More members = more $$$$. To get this, sell out the traditional supporters and embrace what they consider to be the future of ham radio - the no-coders. Their agenda is to dumb down ham radio to the lowest level. Trash the bands for money.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-15
Not if it was free
These clowns waste more money than you or I have. Take for example a visit to the leagues website proclaims that tomorrow the league will be closed for the holiday. They sure take a lot of holidays off, just like the banks. Who is picking up the tab for holiday pay? You my unwise sheep who insist on supporting your league. The FCC laughed off their latest attempt at showing clout with the BPL nprm coming out. The only game in town? Big deal a bookstore and retail center pretending to meet the needs of its members. Renew hell no even it was free.
Posted by
THEWISEONE on 2004-02-15
hmmmm
by the looks of this survey, it appears that almost 1/3 of the hams on this site will drop membership or wont joim at all. The arrl better hope the slackers that benfeit under this thing dig in there pockets
Posted by
JUICY on 2004-02-15
Don't cut off your nose to spite your face!
There are several good reasons that US amateur radio operators ought to belong to ARRL.
1) ARRL is the political action arm of US amateur radio. In the past, many hams worked for the FCC, and the contributions of amateur radio to military and disaster preparedness, technical advances, etc. were well known. Today, FCC staff reflect the agency's interest in many forms of communication besides radio. Hams no longer provide a pool of trained operators for the military, and technical progress does not in general come from amateur experimenters. Many decisions that impact amateur radio are made by Congress. It's absolutely necessary for our interests to be represented with the FCC and with the US Congress. ARRL understands this and does it.
2) ARRL is really a grass-roots organization. Directors are elected by the membership to represent various regions, and are responsive to members' concerns. Minutes of director's meetings and annual financial reports are available on the ARRL website.
3) ARRL provides many useful services in addition to advocacy, including publications, courses, research in areas such as RFI, etc. For example, QST reviews set the standard for reviews of amateur equipment. Many services are subsidized by membership dues.
Posted by
K2VCO on 2004-02-15
N0FP Speaks From His Hog Farm!
TO-N0FP Calling people cheap and ignorant because they do not (fall into line) with this ARRL joke of a proposal not only calls question to YOUR sanity,it REMOVES ALL DOUBT!!!! This is America...we have a right to vote with our wallet! All of us know that you..Rev Peterson..have made the ARRL your god! You also want your adoring NCT ARES NCT's ALL on HF! We know your motives for supporting the ARRL proposal and they have noting to do with standards. You Rev Peterson are the real Cheap Ham..you are willing to Sell out Amateur Radio if it fits your personal agenda!
Posted by
W2ZXC on 2004-02-15
N0FP Speaks From His Hog Farm!
TO-N0FP Calling people cheap and ignorant because they do not (fall into line) with this ARRL joke of a proposal not only calls question to YOUR sanity,it REMOVES ALL DOUBT!!!! This is America...we have a right to vote with our wallet! All of us know that you..Rev Peterson..have made the ARRL your god! You also want your adoring NCT ARES NCT's ALL on HF! We know your motives for supporting the ARRL proposal and they have noting to do with standards. You Rev Peterson are the real Cheap Ham..you are willing to Sell out Amateur Radio if it fits your personal agenda!
Posted by
W2ZXC on 2004-02-15
ARRL Proposal
I expected that when the ARRL was ready to make their proposal, that it was going to be more conservative and more traditional. What I expected was a refarming of the Novice sub bands to allow phone and digital access to NCTs and Novices on HF. That's what I expected no-code HF access to be - just the Novice sub bands, and no more than that. I didn't expect the League to call for the floodgates to be opened with a blanket freebie upgrade to General for Techs. Their proposed Novice even gives away too much in the way of privileges. Its supposed to be an entry-level license. With the much more than liberal privileges that the proposed Novice license would offer, where's the incentive to upgrade? Face it. The ARRL is literally giving it all away. They're in essence giving away the keys to the city!
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-15
No code access
Our radio club was thinking of affiliating with the ARRL UNTIL they came out for this NO CODE.
NO WAY NOW they can go it alone!
Posted by
WD0BCX on 2004-02-15
No code access
Our radio club was thinking of affiliating with the ARRL UNTIL they came out for this NO CODE.
NO WAY NOW they can go it alone!
Posted by
WD0BCX on 2004-02-15
N0FP Speaks From His Hog Farm!
Yeah! And that publication that his god puts out is the Bugtussel Hog Breeder's Gazette.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-15
ARRL Attacks
Mark-AG4RQ. If the shoe fits, wear it. It appears as though I have struck a nerve with you. Your relentless grinding about the meaningless is beyond belief. Every time you stick your tongue out at me, I just giggle. Yes, Mark, you are pathetically funny. And what's up with the hog farm gibberish. I'm an accountant if you must know. I don't recall having ever owned a pig. And your buddy, Heny-W2ZXC, what's up with the ARES argument? There is no active ARES in my county. I don't recall having ever attended an ARES meeting--ever! And Betty--Juicy Betty, 1/3 of the hams? Try 2/3s of all active hams are free-loaders. And Tom-AKA Thewiseone, your profile is correct that there are a pile of moron hams; you and K5FZ-Mr Forrest Gump should hang with a better group. Flame away folks. You are all so out of line it makes me laugh. I could use another good laugh.
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-15
They have dumbed it down.
Why would I want to pay dues to a group that wants to DUMB DOWN amateur radio? If the FCC passes the noninspiring restructuring all of the people that it is hard to believe passed a Technician test will be on HF! I will not support them if they turn our frequencys even more into CB. When my membership expires this October, my check will not be there...
Posted by
KC2GOW on 2004-02-15
N0FP
N0FP, the same way W8VOM and W2ZXC look at you, I also think you're a real jerk. You've already tangled with W8VOM. As far as I'm concerned, you lost that argument. As far as your argument with both W2ZXC and myself, you also lost those. The league tells you to jump, and you ask "how high?" Go jump off the cliff for your god. All you have is your god and your no-code followers. BTW, I remember your duel with W8VOM. You seemed to imply that you're a Christian. If so, you're a very poor excuse for one. You're a total hypocrite. You're about as much of a Christian as Saddam Hussein.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-15
Name calling
This has been my first and last attemt at posting on this forum...if name calling is what this is all about, check me out of this as well as the ARRL.... When something becomes easier and easier to get, it becomes worth less and less...and eventually worthless...I have had a difficult time in the past years finding a nitch in this hobby that I enjoy...there is cat calling and QRMing on the bands...almost all of them...Dx pileups become a cesspool of name calling on both phone and CW...and I guess this forum is just another example of where ham radio is going...We are all big men when separated by miles of phone lines and airwaves...I am sure that all of us would be much more civil to each other face to face...an arms reach away...so why do we stoop to name calling from a distance....beam me up Scotty...there is no intelligent life here....
Posted by
K5FZ on 2004-02-15
to K5FZ
I didn't start the duel between myself and N0FP. He's the one that began the unprovoked personal attacks. When atttacked, I retaliate.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-15
Are you drunk? Or just plain nasty?
N0FP, you are an embarrassment to amateur radio. You sound more like an obnoxious CB'er than you do an Amateur Extra.
73 from
DUALGATEMOSFET
aka
"The Epitaxial One"
Posted by
DUALGATEMOSFET on 2004-02-15
"Dumbing down" amateur radio?
After reading comments in this forum, and many others here on eHam, I find it difficult to believe that amateur radio could be "dumbed down" any further.....
Attacking one another because of personal viewpoints on a subject. Hey, that certainly shows a much higher fibre than the unwashed "freebanders" and "freeloaders".
Whether you agree on CW or not.
Look in the mirror occasionally, folks, before you start accusing others of being "dumbing down" amateur radio. It can be better than this.
Posted by
N1VLQ on 2004-02-15
and from my soapbox...
... I realize that I didn't even proofread that last post properly. Sheesh. Back to that mirror for me, too!
Posted by
N1VLQ on 2004-02-15
I agree wtih the others
N0fp I agree with the others you are a num-nuts. tonight whin you knee and pray to your newington god ask for common sense as well as that new dx you dream about. You and your lazy slacker buds can all be at home now shootin skip on the new hamcb bands. If your a account then you should be able to figure out the simple graph above. 1/3 of the hams are totally fed up with your god and most of the other 2/3 are freeloaders. Guess what your god screwed up bad and now you poor simple fools are going to pay for it.
Posted by
JUICY on 2004-02-15
N0FP Exposed As ARRL Mouthpiece
N0FP said>> Yes, I am a mentor/instructor for EC-001 through EC-003. And he continues>>There is no active ARES in my county. I don't recall having ever attended an ARES meeting--ever!<< Hey folks..Rev Peterson speak with fork tongue! The ARRL is his god and he will defend it wright or wrong! Need I say more about this Hog Farmer and Bean counter? The Rev Peterson of the ARRL church of what's happening now..has been EXPOSED! He is the one who STARTED the name calling...check his posts and you will see that this is his normal strategy! He has MOTIVE for wanting this proposal passed...read between the lines.
Posted by
W2ZXC on 2004-02-15
N0FP is a troublemaker
Mother Nature already took down his 1st tower. What do you say we go out to his pig farm and take his 2nd one down. Lets have an antenna party! Lets take this ill-mannered poor excuse for a ham off the air.
73 from DUALGATEMOSFET
aka
"The Epitaxial One"
Posted by
DUALGATEMOSFET on 2004-02-15
Dumb Down to Zero / Giveaway Program
The ARRL has lowered itself to the same standards as the commissioners at the FCC, the NCI Group, and the freeloaders that want to see Ham Radio turned into a CB type service. If the ARRL is not turned around, we will be railroaded into a problem that will never be resolved and the end of Ham Radio as we know it. I dont know if it will take a change of leadership or a rebellion of its members, but something clearly has to be done. The Dumbing Down has to be not just stopped, but reversed. If the members had a voice in the ARRL, it would be an easy question to answer. We apparently don't. To fight or abandon ship, that is the question.
It is a tough decision to give up the only group that has fought for Amateur Radio for all these years, but if the future of Amateur Radio is going to be reformed into a CB like service, then I am not sure we need someone to fight for us. The ARRL has done a lot of good, but now seems to have taken a wrong turn. It is a tough decision !
Posted by
W5AU on 2004-02-15
W2ZXC is confused
W2ZXC has no doubt confused me with somebody else. I have never even taken EC1 or EC2 or EC3 and am not a mentor. I did not write the post he attributes to me. Another fabrication of fact. Have a nice life folks.
Posted by
N0FP on 2004-02-15
N0FP (Ego) Exposed
N0FP Continues>>The ARES challenge is really a man power problem. More people need to be involved. This means more people need to volunteer, and some must volunteer to provide leadership. The scope of ARES's mandate may need to be expanded to include large areas, which the county level local units cannot possibly accommodate.<< Rev Peterson do you also deny you wrote the above? Ok..so what is my point? Here is my point...You are a strong supporter of the ARRL proposal so you can build an EMPIRE comprised of area NCT's...you WANT them to gain HF access. You are like so many other EC wannabeees..You not only want to help your community,you want to help YOUR EGO!!!
Nothing wrong with ARES or NCT's..what is wrong is Hog Farmers with FAT EGO's like yours! Rev Peterson,you and your church (ARRL) have been exposed. Your doctrine is to DUMB DOWN Amateur Radio for selfish motives. I have seen this kind of thing before...it is not for the greater good of our Hobby and Service..it is for the greater good of Rev Peterson!
Posted by
W2ZXC on 2004-02-15
N0FP dumb down
N0FP, if you succeed in getting the CW test thrown out for your see-bee good buddies, what next step do you propose? How about replacing the written exam with an oral one? Anyone who can say "Duh! Breaker one-nine!" gets unlimited privileges from 60 Hz to daylight, unlimited power, all modes.
73 from DUALGATEMOSFET
aka
"The Epitaxial One"
Posted by
DUALGATEMOSFET on 2004-02-15
ARRL Folley
Well I hope all READ this post, and then make your decisions as to whether to SUPPORT or NOT SUPPORT the ARRL. I wrote an email to my Section Manager, he finally responded, saying it was a complicated decision that they had to make, and that if I was coming to the Orlando HamFest, to stop by the ARRL booth and he'd discuss it with me. Well I went to Orlando, and I went to the booth. When asked if the section mgr was there, I was informed he wasn't, but the Southeast Division Vice-President would be more than glad to discuss the new license proposal with me. I was a perfect gentleman, and started in with my OPINION of what they had proposed, when I was RUDELY STOPPED and told...and I QUOTE... " We are NOT interested in what you have to say, you are a F*CKING MINORITY, and DON'T count!" At which point I had to say, Thanks for the GREAT representation, and walk away!
Now I am an APPROVALED ARRL ARES EC here in Florida, of which I DONATE my time and efforts to help protect the citizens of my county, this man knew this, as that's how I introduced myself, plus I had on my ARRL EC Name badge. Now as an ARRL Volunteer for my area, and I don't count, is this the kind of representation I wish to continue with? I don't think so. My membership is up for renewal in July, at which time, I will NOT renew and have to step down from my official duties as the area EC. I no longer wish to donate my time to be included with with such an un-professional group!
By the way, did any of you other members receive any communication from the ARRL asking your OPINION of such an absurd proposal? Let me further say, I could care less if they do away with CW or not, as a requirement, but in no way do I support just GIVING it away! It will bring an end to what we all know as HAM radio.
73 and thanks for taking the time to read this. de W4LGH - Alan
Posted by
W4LGH on 2004-02-15
Henry Are You a Real Ham
Just wondering because I can't find you anywhere I look. Even under your last name????? Just being curious. Can't find W2ZXC anywhere.
Posted by
WB2TQC on 2004-02-15
THE LOOKING GLASS
MY HATS OFF TO ALL YOU AMATEURS WHO DO NOT LIKE TO CAUSE HATE AND DISCONTENT. IT IS THE LIDS THAT LIKE TO COMPARE WHAT LEVEL OF AMATEUR OR PERSON YOU ARE BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU KNOW, HAVE, CHOOSE OR WANT TO ASSOCIATE YOURSELVES WITH. SOME NEVER MIND THE BASIC FUNDAMENTALS OF RADIO HAVING TO DO WITH "INTERNATIONAL GOODWILL" OR MAKING IT AN ENJOYABLE HOBBY FOR ALL. SOME NEVER MIND MAKING A GOOD EXAMPLE OF HOW PEOPLE SHOULD TREAT OTHERS DESPITE DIFFERENCES. NEVER MIND THE FACT THAT THOSE WHO DO CREATE BARRIERS AND LIKE TO BASH OTHERS ARE USUALLY NOT HAPPY PEOPLE IN GENERAL. I PERSONALLY DO NOT CARE WHAT MODE, RADIO, ANTENNA, COAX, MICROPHONE OR OTHER GEAR OR HOW MUCH YOU OWN OR ITS COST. I COULD CARE LESS NOT TO EVEN ASSOCIATE WITH THE POOR TRODDIN DOWN SO CALLED AMATEUR MISFITS WHO LIKE TO FEEL BETTER ABOUT THEMSELVES THROUGH BROW BEATING AND COMPARING THEMSELVES TO OTHERS. YOUR ACTIONS AND ATTITUDES ARE NEVERTHELESS AN OBSTRUCTION TO THE HOBBY AND THE REAL AMATEURS WHO REALLY ARE WORTHY OF HAVING A LICENSE. SINCE IT IS A PRIVILEGE AND NOT A RIGHT I WOULD HOPE THAT YOUR PRIORITIES IN ORDER.
I KNOW FOR A FACT THERE ARE MORE GOOD OPERATORS THAN BAD LIDS. IT MAKES ME FEEL WONDERING WHY THAT THE SO CALLED "CB'ERS" ON THE AMATEUR BANDS ARE MORE COURTEOUS, ORGANIZED AND WILLING TO COOPERATE AND LEARN. MUST BE THAT THEY TRUELY HAVE RESPECT AND DO NOT TAKE IT ALL FOR GRANTED.
EVER THINK THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN RADIO?
MUST HAVE A VERY NARROW PERSPECTIVE OF LIFE AND A LIMITED AMOUNT OF REAL SOCIAL SKILLS.
Posted by
IFTHETRUTHBEKNOWN on 2004-02-15
ARRL Proposal A Road To Perdition!
To WB2TQC:
I have been a ham for many many years and hate to see our standards destroyed. So WB2TQC..what is your point of view? If you have something to say..say it! Do you benefit by this proposal? Perhaps you will ride to Extra! Lot's of people who gain by the proposal support it. What will be the long term impact on Amateur radio? Or do you prefer to just address anonymous posters? I guess that is the safest thing to do in your position.
Posted by
W2ZXC on 2004-02-15
Henry Are You a Real Ham
Just wondering because I can't find you anywhere I look. Even under your last name????? Just being curious. Can't find W2ZXC anywhere.
Posted by
WB2TQC on 2004-02-15
ARRL supporter!!
I think that the ARRL is a wonderful organization that is dedicated to the protection and advancement of Ham Radio. They work very hard to protect our bands and advance the cause of Ham radio. They have the ability to look beyound pregudices and emotional barriers to do what is right for all amateur radio operators.
Posted by
KD5ZJP on 2004-02-14
everyone slips sometime
I am going to renew my ARRL membership even afer the major mistake I think they made with the recent propsal. I am not aginst dropping the CW requirement to get on HF, but giving instant upgrades to anyone with no futher testing is wrong. It is welfare state thinking.
That aside, I feel the ARRL still provides the best service there is for ham radio but I took the ARRL decals off my cars.
Posted by
W6EZ on 2004-02-14
ARRL Supported!!
Yep I am going to renew, may or may not like EVERYTHING they do but hey! They can't please everyone! Remember they are OUR only voice! It doesn't matter to me what proposal goes through, I know the FCC is gonna do what it is gonna do!
Posted by
KB9LOR on 2004-02-14
ARRL Support
Membership is already on the way.
Without there voice, we have no one.
Support the ARRL !
Posted by
KG4PFO on 2004-02-14
Say YES To ARRL
I will join the ARRL again soon! The ARRL helped me to upgrade to General with their new proposal. We Techs owe the ARRL plenty and my dues are in the mail. The ARRL has true vision and it is my hope and dream that they will one day drop the stupid code for EXTRA!....YES YES YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by
W2ZXC on 2004-02-14
Yes to the ARRL
I have been a member ever since I received my novice ticket 25+ years ago. Sure they have screwed up and are slow to respond to memeber wants and needs BUT I dont see anyone else up in Washington trying to keep our hobby alive! I will stick with the ARRL until someone else shows the balls to fight for us...
Posted by
N0FPE on 2004-02-14
Renew? Are you kidding?
Heck, no!
Posted by
DUALGATEMOSFET on 2004-02-14
Future ARRL member
I was pleased when I found out about the ARRL's support to eliminate Morse testing for General class privileges. At least they had the stones to address the issue and provide some contemporary logic regarding it. I don't necessarily agree with the auto-upgrade of Technician to General, but I'll go along with whatever the FCC decides. In the meantime, I'll try to join soon. As the main voice for ham radio interests in the political/regulatory arena, the ARRL should get the support of all active U.S. hams.
Posted by
K7IHC on 2004-02-14
The ARRL
I might just wait to see how the implementation of the new license classes go.
I do agree that the ARRL proposal for the three classes is very good for the future of ham radio. And I also agree with the elimination of the CW test except for Extra
class.
But I DO NOT agree that present no code tech class should be upgraded to general class without taking the general class written exam!
And ALL of the no code techs I have talked to agree with me! NONE of them asked to be
"given" the upgrade. All they wanted was to eliminate the CW portion for access to HF...
They all are more than willing to take the
general written.
ARRL messed up on the "merge" no code techs up to general class with no extra tests....
All that being said, The ARRL is like the NRA (National Rifle Association) I do not agree with everything they do either, But they are the only group that represents us.
Therefore they deserve our support........
Posted by
K9KJM on 2004-02-14
Support our Voice in Washington!
Of course I will renew my ARRL membership! They are the voice of Ham Radio in Washington. They may not be perfect, but at least they are out there doing work that no one else can (or would be willing to) do in order to insure the future of Amateur Radio.
73 Clinton AB7RG
Posted by
AB7RG on 2004-02-14
nope
No way
Posted by
W8OB on 2004-02-14
It doesn't matter now...
I'm a Member, but it's all a moot point now that the FCC is giving a green light & pat on the back to BPL with the new notice of proposed rulemaking coming out. The countdown to the destruction of Amateur Radio has begun. Enjoy it while it lasts. 73.
Posted by
KT0DD on 2004-02-14
Absolutely!!
I love Ham Radio and membership in the ARRL is the best way I know how to support it. With legislation pending against us (BPL and so on) the ARRL is the only game in town to protect us. And by the way, you get a monthly magazine also.
Thank you for reading my opinion.
Posted by
KC0LKS on 2004-02-14
ARRL HELL ON
The ARRL seems to be destroying HAM RADIO>
Its all about MONEY !!!
Posted by
WD0BCX on 2004-02-14
Yes!
This really is a fine organization with a great history that promotes the interest of ham radio worldwide. They may not always come down on your side of the issue, but they do their best at all times.
Posted by
KG6AMW on 2004-02-14
ARRL SUPPORTER
I go along with some of the proposals and some I don't. If they are suggesting that techs should be upgraded to General Class with no futher testing, then I should be upgraded to Extra Class with no futher testing because I have my 5 words per minute code.
Posted by
K4SNC on 2004-02-14
NEW REGS
WHAT DOES CODE HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?
ITS JUST A BUFFER TO HOLD BACK NEW HAMS.
MAKE THE EXAMS HARDER OR SOMETHING BUT DONT PUSH YOU LOVE OF CODE . IT ONLY HOLDS BACK MANY EXPERIANCED RADIO OPERATORS LIKE MYSELF.
I PLAN TO GET MY GENERAL TICKET SO I CAN WORK THE OFFSHORE MARITIME NET WHEN I START
CRUISING ON MY SAILBOAT. IAM LEARNING THE CODE OK BUT SOME ARE HAVING A HARD TIME WITH IT LET THEM LEARN IF THEY WANT TO LATER ON.
CAPT.STU NELSON S/V VIVEN SOUTHERN CROSS 31
Posted by
KB3KPH on 2004-02-14
CW doesn't matter now
I just renewed my membership this week....done!!
All the chatter about CW vs no-CW is moot now.....if BPL is going to move forward, the
thing blocking new hams will be the risky decision to invest in expensive gear, only to find out all they will hear with it is BPL QRM. On the other hand, there will likely be LOTS of cheap (and useless) ham gear on Ebay. New hams...BEWARE.... before you invest....maybe you should put your money into a new computer.
-73
Posted by
W5EEX on 2004-02-14
ARRL
Just consider how lucky you are in the USA to have the ARRL with their close influence in the FCC.
Many of us in the rest of the world are far less fortunate. I live in the less developed world. In Britain we have the RSGB, which has virtually become a commercial organisation retailing books. Even after a recent drive to lower standards to (in my opinion) well below the minimum required, our band use is decreasing and allocations are under threat.
Our Subs are UKP 40 - about $70. For that we have Radcom. For a pittance in you get QST and if you wish for not a lot more you can get QEX. The ARRL has maintained good technical journals. This is why I am an ARRL member.
Posted by
G0MJW on 2004-02-14
It's a Tough Job
The finest ballplayers in history didn't have a perfect batting average. It is sufficient for me that the ARRL earnestly lobbies for the survival of amateur radio under very difficult circumstances. Our spectrum has been, is now, and will continue to be under attack by well-funded commercial interests. It is important that in the upcoming NPRM the ARRL battle to keep BPL completely out of the amateur bands. Adaptive techniques to mitigate interference are not practical and their approval will set a terrible precedent that in the future might permit increasing intrusion into our spectrum by other commercial services using cognitive radio technologies (refer to the "Smart Radio" proceedings). Amateur spectrum should not be "shared" to the detriment of amateur operations and I believe this to be the bedrock of the ARRL's position. I will not foolishly abandon my own support at a time when clearly, the future of the amateur radio service is at stake.
Posted by
WB5HZE on 2004-02-14
I support the ARRL
I haven't always agreed with the ARRL but I am and will always be a member. At least my dues go to something other than a magazine subscription. I don't see any other organization working for our interests. I encourage all hams to put aside your differences and at least donate some money to help ensure our bands will be around for another 75 years.
Craig - N7UQA
Posted by
N7UQA on 2004-02-14
No way if:
Nope, I do not intend to renew after being a member for 14 years. They have turned their backs on us and have given away too much.
Posted by
N9JKT on 2004-02-14
Wether or not.....
. Whether or not you agree with the ARRL, it must be supported. No other organization has a voice for us in the halls of congress or the FCC. I don't agree with all they do but at least they DO SOMETHING.
What I pay for ARRL membership is small compared to what I have invested in my hobby. It is worth that to be able to continue that hobby. You may not like them for whatever reason, but if you have a gripe and need a voice; WHO ELSE will you call upon to air that gripe? With the BPL NPRM, we need them now more than ever before.
73
Frank
KL7IPV
Posted by
KL7IPV on 2004-02-14
OF COURSE!
Because I'm a League member, I just received a notice from the local section manager, that the county I live in has a meeting this month to vote on a proposal, from a small group of home owners, to limit all Amateur Radio towers to 35 feet.
Information from the League has already been sent to county board of supervisors indicating why this 35 foot restriction is not in compliance with the FCC's thoughts on reasonable accommodations. Especially since there are areas of this county with 10-2000 acres tracks of private land.
Posted by
RobertKoernerExAE7G on 2004-02-14
Yes, I will renew
I have only been a ARRL member for two years now. While, granted, the ARRL did make some mistakes, they did way more good then bad. Look at all the things the ARRL does and did. Including the 60meter band, fighting BPL, PRB-1, and much more. Tell me one organisation, other then the ARRL, that is fighting as hard for amateur radio in the halls of congress.
While one might exist, the efforts of the ARRL cannot be denied. As far as the recent licensing proposal, I do not agree with it 100%, but it seems like a nice compromise. As Bill Cosby once said, "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."
See you on the air soon!
73,
Andrew W6YB
Posted by
W6YB on 2004-02-14
Why should I?
I feel betrayed by the ARRL's proposal. If that wasn't bad enough, my 3 e-mails regarding the code issue to my director, Frank Butler Jr. went unanswered. I sent the first on 10/8/03, the second on 1/8/04 and the third on 1/27/04. The final e-mail had a cc to Jim Haynie. No reply form him either. It is obvious that the ARRL doesn't give a rat's butt about me or my opinion. They didn't even give me the courtesy of answering my e-mails. It should also be obvious that they don't give a rat's butt about my $39/year either.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-14
Waste of your money
This poll means nothing. 2/3 of the U.S. amateur population does not belong to nor will it have anything to do with the arrl and their commercial fund raising proposals. Really sad to see so many that don't realize they have been sold out to the highest commercial bidder. Most of that 2/3 population will not waste the time to get on these idiot threads and express their opinions. I'd say if the truth was know as the poll stands right now most of those that say they think so much of the arrl are those that stand to gain some of the "free rides" the league has proposed to the fcc. Yeah folks it won't be long untill you can use those am filters and those hamrigs you're using on cb right in the middle of the hambands. Send the arrl your money they're the only reason you stand a chance of ever getting on amateur radio.
John WR8D
Posted by
WR8D on 2004-02-14
ARRL & BPL
All of you who are running scared because of the FCC's latest decision regarding BPL are playing right into the ARRL's hands. They are exploiting the FCC's decision to approve a Notice of Proposed Rule Making. This way, they get everyone to forget about their outrageous proposal and welcome the "numbers" to fight off BPL. It is the usual ARRL smokescreen. Most chances are that we won't see BPL. NTIA and FEMA are against it. So are the wireless providers. BPL is a lame duck, same as 8-track tapes and Beta video cassettes were. BPL is not only a bum technology, but an outdated one. The future of broadband Internet is 802.11, way up on 5 GHz, which won't interfere with anything. Even if it is implemented, it won't last too long. It will be scrapped, and its developers will be filing chapter 11. BPL will prove to be the Great White Elephant of the Twenty-first Century.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-14
Yes! ARRL Thank You
I will renew my membership in ARRL!
The ARRL has recently shown again that it can be an effective force for the amateur radio service. ARRL's recent FCC proposal for elimination of morse code testing for HF access is worth my dues for the past 36 years!
If all hams were members, ARRL would have the kind of bucks it takes to really lobby the government people these days. Money talks. They have done a lot of work with the little dollars they receive from our membership dues.
They need even more now that the Bush Power Lobby (BPL) is planning a hostile takeover of our HF bands!
Bonnie KQ6XA
Posted by
KQ6XA on 2004-02-14
Where's The Maturity
Odd to see adults stamp their feet and fold their arms because the ARRL didn't do it their way.
Posted by
KG6AMW on 2004-02-14
Free Ride
Now that the ARRL is in the business of providing free transportation, I think I'll sell my car. Who needs the headaches of maintaining a car. I'll just call them when I need a ride.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-14
A LITTLE HISTORY
Those who have been paying attention will remember the no-code movement has been on its way since the late 1980's. Our first taste came with the "doctors exemption" for the 13 and 20 wpm code tests.
Then political pressure from inside the White House, not pressure from the ARRL or any major amateur radio group, "persuaded" the FCC to drop the 13 and 20 wpm code tests.
Now we have several groups who want to drop the code entirely. The ARRL's proposal is actually much closer to the Russian position to retain the code than it is to most other amateur groups (except FISTS) position on the matter.
No matter what we think of the no-code proposal, the reality is simple. We have a train bearing down on us, we had better get off the tracks!
We will be lucky to hold onto a CW subband against the political extremists who feel it is unfair for anyone to excel in anything. The ARRL proposal is a lot better than most of the alternatives.
So yes, I will pay my dues and take my lumps.
73 Pete Allen AC5E
Posted by
AC5E on 2004-02-14
History
Pete, the dumbing down started in the eighties, when the FCC turned testing over to the VECs. AR has been going downhill since. We are approaching cereal box licensing.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2004-02-14
ARRL Supporters
Well I can see that the ARRL sure has a lot of you people fooled.. Try emailing them with problem and see how quick they email you. ( NEVER ) I can see all you want to be free Generals supporting the league, but what amazes me all you upper class hams fall for there sad stories.I have seen more crap in the past 3 years than all 23 yrs being a ham. Think of where the money really goes sure dont seem they are helping us at all.Well soon the bands won't be here anyway tnx to the ARRL so it really does'nt matter if you join or not. But as for me I will just set and watch you supporters kill our bands.
Posted by
KD8IO on 2004-02-14
AARL
I supoort the ARRL position with respect to the no code. I have had my ticket for over 15 years, and I am a financial professional, not an electrical engineer. I do not have the time or desire to learn code, even if it was only 5WPM. I also do not think that the "bands" will deteriorate, or become like "CB"(dreaded). I know the oldtimers will have a significant problem with the position and support of the ARRL, but times change, and the time is now. Thank you ARRL.
Posted by
N2SLO on 2004-02-14
Life Member
Over the years I have belonged to ARRL on and off; the off times were to punish them for doing something I didn't like. How childish I was. After a few years I would always rejoin. About 10 or 15 years ago the pressure on us to keep our frequencies became almost unrelenting (remember the little LEOs for example?). I realized the ARRL was the only game going that could organize this disfunctional hobby and perhaps get some clout in government. Not much maybe but any is better than none. I signed on for good. Becoming a LM was a purely economic decison for me. I figured if I had another 35 or 40 years B4 SK time I'd save money in the long run this way, and support the League at the same time. Also, I don't have to go through all the renewal business each year. I just wish I had done it back when dues were $8.50/year. If you are committed to staying in the hobby and supporting the League, and you can put the money aside, becoming a life member is a win for both you and the League.
Posted by
K5UJ on 2004-02-14
Another ARRL Supporter
Let's face it PC's have changed the world forever as ham radio once did. Thus a change in licensing structure is necessary for our survival. Those truly interested in CW will learn and use it. We have only one voice and the ARRL does a credible job of protecting our interests. They need us today more than ever and we need them!
Posted by
K5TO on 2004-02-14
NON ARRL SUPPORTER
NO WAY. NEVER WILL SUPPORT THE ARRL AGAIN. I THINK THEY DO NOT REPRESENT HAM RADIO AT LARGE. THEY IMPRESS ME AS A RAG SHEET PERIODICAL PRODUCER. THEY HAVE BEEN VERY INSTRUMENTAL IN THE DECAY OF HAM RADIO. CW TODAY, TOMORROW AND FOREVER...
Posted by
K7NNG on 2004-02-14
arrl
not sure yet ham radio going down hill fast been lic 43 yrs think is the end of ham radio who need ham radio now with the inter net but i love my ham radio i am a cw man will do it until i am a sk that is it ar 73
Posted by
K1LWI on 2004-02-14
Unreal
Such bitterness over an operating mode and needing to be tested for it? Get real ... where's your spirit of goodwill? That's what true hams are made of.
Posted by
BIRDMAN on 2004-02-14
Unreal
Such bitterness over an operating mode and needing to be tested for it? Get real ... where's your spirit of goodwill? That's what true hams are made of.
Posted by
BIRDMAN on 2004-02-14
arrl
It is better than nothing. I will renew. I still say if you don't like it has anybody tried to run for office. I see everyone getting elected with no one opposing them. As for as code or no code. Why should the US keep it when the rest of the world says we don't have to have it. If you don't like it stay on the Extra bands. Or better yet stay on CW. You won't have to worry about the no-codes they won't be there. I for one like having an advance ticket. Every one knows I did the 13wpm thing. I am not going to lose any sleep if they upgrade me and I lose this. The arguments over the ARRL remind of the government. Every one complains but less than 50% vote. If someone has a better group than the ARRL to represents us let me know. I might join it too. I don't know any group or political party that I agree with a 100% but lets see I belong to the ARRP, the NRA, a political party, three alumni groups and a church. Since none of these organazations represent me 100% of the time. I guess I should quit them all. I am just saying that since there are only 750,000 of us in a country of close to 300 million if we don't start sticking together all things will be lost. I don't think we pay enough in taxes or there is enough of us to influence an election in a small town anywhere in the USA. I do know one thing we are all getting old and we are starting to die. We need to do something or ham radio is going to die with us. Again I ask if not the ARRL than who.
WB4QNG
Terry
Posted by
WB4QNG on 2004-02-14
One Voice
ARRL is the only voice we have. Otherwise, who will speak for us? Sure, its not perfect, but it is politics. In 1968, Incentive Licensing came into being just two years after I got into ham radio. Did I feel slighted...until all my buddies started up grading and I was just a General. Studied my butt off, but I upgraded infront of the FCC, the real way. I would have never made it with out books and instructions from the ARRL. They have helped me in TVI cases, club issues, and I like chasing their awards. If you don't like the League, don't do DXCC, WAS, any of their contests operating events. You are loosing out on the fun. I did not get into ham radio to hear all you guys gripe and moan because you did not get your way. I got into ham radio to learn, to communicate, work DX, or the next block, and to hang out with some really strange fellows. There is no perfect system or perfect organization. The ARRL is the most powerfull voice we have and I will support it. Flames can go in your bucket of allegator tears some of you are crying.
Posted by
K0WA on 2004-02-14
You Have Been Had By The ARRL !
AG4RQ Wtote>>All of you who are running scared because of the FCC's latest decision regarding BPL are playing right into the ARRL's hands. They are exploiting the FCC's decision to approve a Notice of Proposed Rule Making. This way, they get everyone to forget about their outrageous proposal and welcome the "numbers" to fight off BPL. It is the usual ARRL smokescreen. Most chances are that we won't see BPL. NTIA and FEMA are against it. So are the wireless providers. BPL is a lame duck, same as 8-track tapes and Beta video cassettes were. BPL is not only a bum technology, but an outdated one. The future of broadband Internet is 802.11, way up on 5 GHz, which won't interfere with anything. Even if it is implemented, it won't last too long. It will be scrapped, and its developers will be filing chapter 11. BPL will prove to be the Great White Elephant of the Twenty-first Century.<< This is SO True! If you believe that BPL will be in every town soon,you must believe in the Tooth Fairy!
Posted by
W2ZXC on 2004-02-14
ARRL, CW
I support the ARRL. I am even in favor of dropping the CW requirement. The reason is simple. If CW is so darn popular, then why aren't there near the CW users on that there use to be? I listen to the bottom of 80, 40, and even 20 meters. It use to be that the only way to hear anyone was to have and use a very narrow receiver filter. Now it is actually possible to copy CW with my receiver in wide mode, and not get interference from anyone on adjacent frequencies! A very far cry from the old days when it was such a chore to copy some signals, even with 250 hertz filter in the receiver.
I also agree with the ARRL's plan to refarm the old CW frequencies. Hey guys, you can't cry if you loose something that you don't use.
I know there are some diehard CW ops still out there, but the days when everyone use to get on CW occasionally are gone.
Posted by
FORMER_WM5Z_SF on 2004-02-14
ARRL, CW
I support the ARRL. I am even in favor of dropping the CW requirement. The reason is simple. If CW is so darn popular, then why aren't there near the CW users on that there use to be? I listen to the bottom of 80, 40, and even 20 meters. It use to be that the only way to hear anyone was to have and use a very narrow receiver filter. Now it is actually possible to copy CW with my receiver in wide mode, and not get interference from anyone on adjacent frequencies! A very far cry from the old days when it was such a chore to copy some signals, even with 250 hertz filter in the receiver.
I also agree with the ARRL's plan to refarm the old CW frequencies. Hey guys, you can't cry if you loose something that you don't use.
I know there are some diehard CW ops still out there, but the days when everyone use to get on CW occasionally are gone.
Posted by
FORMER_WM5Z_SF on 2004-02-14
I used to be anti-ARRL....
But in the grand scheme of things, the politics doesn't really matter for me....my hamming won't change no matter what the ARRL does.
For me, it was less politics and more of what can the ARRL do for me. The website, the QSL bureau, Ed Hare and the lab boys (and girls) work on BPL, the lobbying in Congress...even though I don't agree with the restructuring mess and wish QST was better, I CAN support those things that I listed above--and I gladly will. That's why I renewed after a seven year absence.
Posted by
KE4MOB on 2004-02-14