Survey Comments
How many times do I have to tell people...Powell is CLUELESS, and could care less about amateur radio because it does not generate what the FCC wants...COLD CASH!!!
Posted by
K2KOH on 2005-01-08
The FCC and BPL
I live in rural NM. Here in my county, the power and phone companies have teamed up and are currently installing DSL relays connected by fiber optic cable to go beyond the usual DSL limitations. The point is BPL may be outmoded before it becomes a universal problem. Second thought, since most folks now get their tv via cable and satellite, why not take the old channel 2 or 3 vhf channel allocations at six megs each and use them?
Posted by
WB7DCV on 2004-11-27
The FCC and BPL
I live in rural NM. Here in my county, the power and phone companies have teamed up and are currently installing DSL relays connected by fiber optic cable to go beyond the usual DSL limitations. The point is BPL may be outmoded before it becomes a universal problem. Second thought, since most folks now get their tv via cable and satellite, why not take the old channel 2 or 3 vhf channel allocations at six megs each and use them?
Posted by
WB7DCV on 2004-11-27
No were to run
I have a pie shaped farm, I moved to the boonies in SC to have antennas there is a Power line right of way on my farm. It has never been a problem before, but if Duke Power goes BPL well is Duke going to one reloate me, away from the Noise or two move their lines? NO, the Frank Charlie Charlie has been smoking that funny tobacco if they think moving antennas will work. Right now my noise is S1 to S2 most days on HF lower bands No Powerline noise if BPL comes here there will be no where to hide. Let's complain to the President, Congress and remind them of our history of Public Service and Innovation. Only a new law or the fear of it can protect us. The fear of congressional over rule is a big deal in DC, no agency likes that as they can't change it.
KA4PXK wondering if those A10 practicing over head might like some power poles for practice.....
Posted by
KA4PXK on 2004-11-18
If I hear BPL
If I hear BPL,
I will certainly feel like hell.
My speaker will shake
My heart will break,
and My Shack will be up for SALE.
WA4BWO
Posted by
WA4BWO on 2004-11-17
BPL and FCC
Those dumb asses have no idea about what type HF antenna radio amateurs erect and use. Just how do they think a 160 meter dipole can be moved farther away from a power line without moving closer to another power line in a city or suburban community. We need to use a ball bat on their heads to get their attention.
Posted by
W4DON on 2004-11-17
BPL
Who do you think is doing this????? Do a Google search on "bush + bpl"... you get 26,500 hits, including this one from http://www.plca.net/newsandevents.asp
Any ham who voted uninformed deserves whatever he gets.
April 2004
President Bush Supports BPL
President Bush recently delivered a speech on Broadband alternatives. Here is an excerpt:
So how is some guy in remote Wyoming going to get any broadband technology? Regulatory policy has got to be wise and smart as we encourage the spread of this important technology. There needs to be technical standards to make possible new broadband technologies, such as the use of high-speed communication directly over power lines. Power lines were for electricity; power lines can be used for broadband technology. So the technical standards need to be changed to encourage that."
Posted by
KD5RHR on 2004-11-16
BPL
Who do you think is doing this????? Do a Google search on "bush + bpl"... you get 26,500 hits, including this one from http://www.plca.net/newsandevents.asp
Any ham who voted uninformed deserves whatever he gets.
April 2004
President Bush Supports BPL
President Bush recently delivered a speech on Broadband alternatives. Here is an excerpt:
So how is some guy in remote Wyoming going to get any broadband technology? Regulatory policy has got to be wise and smart as we encourage the spread of this important technology. There needs to be technical standards to make possible new broadband technologies, such as the use of high-speed communication directly over power lines. Power lines were for electricity; power lines can be used for broadband technology. So the technical standards need to be changed to encourage that."
Posted by
KD5RHR on 2004-11-16
BPL
Anyone what to by plans for an Electro Magnetic Pulse gun? hi hi ha ha !!!
Posted by
KE4IZA on 2004-11-16
FCC Nazi's
Whats up with the FCC I guess they can't find any more nazi's under 80 years old! These guys need to get a clue about radio! I'm all for new technology but not at the expense of losing another!
Posted by
W8VHO on 2004-11-16
FCC Nazi's
Whats up with the FCC I guess they can't find any more nazi's under 80 years old! These guys need to get a clue about radio! I'm all for new technology but not at the expense of losing another!
Posted by
W8VHO on 2004-11-16
Help
I am a new ham and have irricted a tower new. So if BPL comes anocking, thier is nothing I will be able to do. I dont know where to start. I am 12 and will most likely have to protest at or small towns city hall meeting. I must have gotten my license a litte to late to realy enjoy radio. I also think that if it comes to kicking it to 1500 watts to talk with my buds across town I wont listen when thier TV's become over welemd with RFI. I have personaly decided that I will fight for my right to the band. This is not to say that I am opposed to rural internet. Just that it's not fair for the FCC to allow polution of our band. Thier just might not be any RFI/(my new term)BPLI
Posted by
KD5YZJ on 2004-11-16
bpl
first, howard stern is right...the fcc a-holes in charge are a-holes....second, if a terror group in the u.s. is found with ham gear for communications, the fatherland at home land security will demand the fcc shut down ham radio in the name of national sercuity
Posted by
WA3LGG on 2004-11-16
EMC Directive
Of relevance only to hams living in the EU...
Surely BPL must pretty much fart in the face of the Electromagnetic Compatibility Directive (89/336/EEC) and therefore be illegal under European Law? Surely?
Posted by
G0RTN on 2004-11-15
Go MFJ!
I'm waiting for MFJ to come out with a BPL detector that will tell me what brand of BPL equipment is causing the noise, and how much.
Posted by
AB5XZ on 2004-11-15
Use the rules against them
Since it seems to be, use the minimum power to maintain communications, If I have to run a full kw to communicate 3 miles, won't this also bring more consumers against BPL when you start interfering with their elcheepo television, telephone, and VCR?
note: Thermite is quieter than a .22 or shotgun and has a much better final effect
Posted by
KE7AAQ on 2004-11-15
BPL
well if bush did this i may have to become a democrat
Posted by
KD5YZJ on 2004-11-15
BPL
well if bush did this i may have to become a democrat
Posted by
KD5YZJ on 2004-11-15
BPL
well if bush did this i may have to become a democrat
Posted by
KD5YZJ on 2004-11-15
Stay legal
Damaging radio equipment, intentional interference, and so on, are illegal. Long QSOs and calling CQ on an open band are legal. Looks like I'll be spending more time on HF in the next four years...
Posted by
N3EG on 2004-11-15
BPL problems
Hey were amateurs not professionals. When we are presented with a problem we normally work on a usable solution. This is not a rifle or shotgun issue it is a technical solving issue that out past hams brothers would have worked extensively when they were saddled with a problem . We can work around this and any other problems. Lets flood QST with filters, chokes and problem solutions projects. OFF out butts boys( and girls). Jim W4EPA
Posted by
W4EPA on 2004-11-14
Interference?
I don't mean to sound condescending, but....what interference? By the time BPL has its problems worked out and is ready to be implemented, it will be outmoded! Yes, there may still be some interference, but it may not be as bad as everybody seems to think.
Posted by
K1CJS on 2004-11-14
DSP Filters won't work
For those of us who have some delusion that a separate receiving antenna or DSP system will make BPL disappear, it isn't going to happen.
BPL is a long duty-cycle broadband signal that radiates from multiple points along the power lines. You won't be able to null it or DSP it.
The real solution to this is to get the Bush administrations attention. They are the ones who ordered Powell to get behind BPL regardless of the impact on HF systems.
73 Tom
Posted by
W8JI on 2004-11-13
bpl is the end of hf
don't you know that once bpl is wide spread it will take the FCC about 2 seconds to rule that any interference to a device providing internet service will be illegal.
Posted by
L1D on 2004-11-13
FCC 'Advice'
I find it interesting that the FCC's advice to move our antennas 'a few feet...in accordance with good engineering practices' is located in footnote 83 of their order,and the following paragraph, both quoted below:
"83. We would also advise ARRL that in cases where its members experience reception of RF noise, such noise can often be avoided by carefully locating their antennas; in many instances an antenna relocation of only a relatively short distance can resolve noise interference (see ARRL comments at 13)."
"In addition, because power lines inherently can radiate significant noise emissions as noted by NTIA and ARRL, good engineering practice is to locate sensitive receiver antennas as far as practicable from power lines. This practice will also help prevent interference from Access BPL emissions."
Like others, I don't have the 'few feet' to move. I've power lines on three sides of my 50 x 100 foot lot; where'm I gonna move to?
As I noted previously, when Riley explains why I, as a licensed service, have to modify operations because of an unlicensed Part 15 Class B service, I'll move...
73
Joe
Posted by
N2LJD on 2004-11-12
Other better choices!
I tend to agree with those who say BPL will die a natural death. Why, because I work for a Telecom that serves a major part of Southern California and FTTP is alive and in high gear. BPL just can't deliver the speed and bandwidth that fiber DSL can. And its not in a dream stage. It is being deployed as I write.
In the past few weeks fiber delivery at our construction yards has surpassed anything I could have imagined. We are hiring workers off the street for the first time in many years. FTTP will be offered first to the areas of newest construction where the fiber will be burried as new homes and business grow, then it will be placed in the air to cover our existing subscriber base. Service is already offered in a few of our service areas now.
As for the bandwidth needed in the infrastructure to support FTTP, that is the part of the business I am in.
In the area I work in our broadband network is growing larger by the hour. I can't even imagine that the power companies could even hope to compete in this business and offer anything near what my company and other telecom and cable companies can do.
As for the FCC and its chairmam, I will leave the flames to others.
Posted by
W6LAR on 2004-11-12
Power Line Remote Control v BPL?
I'm still waiting to see what happens when BPL interferes with, or accidentally triggers, remote control commands to utility stations (remember when the electric utilities opposed a 136KHz allocation for us due interference potential?). Maybe BPL users will cause another blackout like the northeast blackouts of 1964, 1977 & 2003...then whose money will talk louder, BPL or Con ED???
And no, I won't move my antenna 'til I get a letter from Riley explaining why my licensed service has to be modified because of interference from/to an unlicensed Part 15 service.
73
Joe - out to get a generator!
Posted by
N2LJD on 2004-11-12
I wonder how many of you voted for BPL by voting for Bush???? After all, it's his boy (Powell) that's promoting it. Everything for big business - forget the little guy.
Posted by
AA5ET on 2004-11-12
Powells, etc
Well aren't they both stepping down?
Poor souls- spokesmen/scapegoats...I always felt the goat got the most raw, unfettered stench of a deal.
There seem to be so many very well educated and/or brilliant people within the ranks of Amateur radio- speckled about the entire flavor of it all.
I would hate being viewed by those knowledgable, accomplished people- from various walks of life and the entire range of professions, who have ham radio in common, as the mouth-piece/scape-goat of evil doing. But it would be better to be perceived as that- rather than the root cause of the problem.
Even though everyone who wants to blame someone, in this case Junior- deep down knows that it's simply about money- they must have someone to blame.
Someone has to be stoned into oblivion, or burned at the stake, no? It's a bummer but it's true, and most of America is simply so shallow.
I hope that current ISP's provide enough competition, and continue developing smarter and perhaps more effective ways of bringing the Internet to the country. I hope THEY see the threat to their existence, and in the spirit of a free-market economy, render BPL technically, but mostly, economically obsolete- before the monster gains a toe hold and, a stifling grip.
Posted by
W3DCG on 2004-11-11
for OLDFART
http://www.leenks.com/redirect.php?lid=3852
Posted by
K3ESE on 2004-11-10
The Right and Wrong Way
Gentlemen,
I am just as mad as you all are. In fact I may have a little more reason to resonate my anger then most. I am a member of the amateur test team that has and continues to review the Irving, TX BPL test site. I have seen first hand the effects that BPL has on not only our bands but the entire HF and lower VHF spectrum. I have witnessed my transmissions and their detrimental effects on the BPL system as well.
I have sat and listened to the endless dribble from the BPL industry representatives stating that this stuff is the greatest thing to happen to the industry in a long time, and that amateurs are just blowing smoke. I have also see their faces when they saw first hand the 20 over 9 signals they were spreading over the entire HF spectrum. I have seen those same representatives turn white when I keyed up my transmitter and their system shut down.
Yes, I can tell you without a doubt that I am mad. Its very frustrating to be continually told that this stuff will not interfere, then when you prove it to them and they say those results are biased. Yes, I am mad because as a amateur radio operator I can not deny my responsibility to first, protect our amateur radio bands, and second continue to improve the radio art, both of which BPL threatens to destroy.
You can say that anger is a good thing, for it motivates. The real question is what does it motivate one to do? There is a right way and a wrong way to handle things. Believe me it would give me great joy to see the Irving BPL system taken out, and really any means necessary would make me happy, but I have to think about ham radio, and the 600,000+ American operators out there that our hobby represents.
Either vandalizing or threatening to vandalize a BPL system is counterproductive to what we are attempting to accomplish. In this day and age that we live in it is too easy to be marked an outlaw or a terrorist. Performing or threatening to perform these acts could easily cause the public to get the perception that Amateur radio is an outlaw, rouge or terrorist based organization. We are a bunch of radicals that will do anything to keep what we have. This is the wrong impression to give!!!!!!
Here is a real revelation for you. The BPL industry doesn’t give a flip about amateur radio. They only care about selling BPL units. They aren’t going to pay to relocate your tower if you have interference and could really care less if you operate or not, since your operations will affect their bandwidth. If you do have interference they will probably take forever to mitigate the problem. They are in it for the money period. Shooting the units or vandalizing them in any way will not stop them, they will prosecute you for destruction of property or some other charge and replace the units. So what have you gained?
We have done so much for the public cause. Much more then most will ever known about. Hardly ever do we get our names in the paper or on the television. We are out there in floods, tornados, disasters, and emergencies. We are the backup communications for the civil population of America and the world. When the chips are down, and the police and fire repeaters are off the air, we’ll still be operating! This is the impression that we want the public to see! Not the 357 toting vigilante, blowing holes in BPL units.
I am angry and from the looks of this survey there are at least 625 here on eham that are angry too, but there are also 143 that don’t know what BPL is, or think it s not going to interfere. Another 254 that will just laydown and take this crap.
My question is first for those 625 angry hams. What are you doing to stop this monster? How many people have you told about BPL, how many of you have called your representatives, called the FCC? How many have given a presentation to your local club on BPL? How many of you have sent money to those that are fighting for our rights in this cause for the legal expenses they are incurring. Why aren’t you telling those 143 on this list what BPL is and why it is going to negatively effect our hobby? For those 143 here on eham there are thousands more in our hobby that haven’t a clue about BPL. Tell them, spread the word!
Before its asked of me I’ll tell you what I am doing. When I was asked to review the BPL system in Irving I reviewed every piece of data on the BPL site at the ARRL. I went out the manufacture’s web site and read their take on it. I then helped with the test and what I found made me physically ill. I immediately contacted my ARRL section manager and begin working with him to get the ARRL involved. Since then I have visited over 13 clubs in the North Texas area spreading the word about BPL, and asking for their support and asking for them to contact their congressional members. With the help of others we started the www.texasbpl.com web site to spread the word and update the hams in Texas about the BPL goings on in this state.
My findings from my club presentations show that an estimated 40% of the amateur community knows nothing about BPL. Another 20% think that BPL is just a fad and will go away. Another 20% think that BPL won’t affect them, and that there are no worries. The final 20% know about BPL and are angry. I can say that after my presentation 100% of the hams know what BPL is and its effects, and 100% of the hams know that it a problem that will affect us all, and that it is something we should be worried about.
For those 254 that are just going to take this stuff as it comes, do you really understand how its going to effect you? Are you willing to just give up your right to use the radio spectrum so the power companies can raise your rates and sell internet to make even more money, using your ham bands to do so? Are we going to give up the support to the public cause that we provide in both non-emergency and emergency events? What will they do when we are gone? Will you continue to lie down when they come and take more rights and privileges away from you in the future?
For those 143 that don’t know what BPL is, I am sorry that you haven’t heard the news, but BPL is the worst threat to come to our hobby since its creation. If your doubt it, go to my website www.texasbpl.com and listen to the sound files from the Irving test. Using an ATAS-100 antenna, 300 feet from the pole 40,20,17,12, 10 and 6 were covered with 20 over 9 signals spaced every 3Khz. It was S7 a quarter mile away. If BPL is implemented on a wide scale then HF and lower VHF will become a BPL wasteland. Think it won’t affect you? Bet you live within a quarter mile of a powerline, now think again…..
Gentlemen I am not posting this to toot my own horn. I could careless if KJ5RM is ever in lights. What I do care about is ham radio. Ham radio has given me much more then I can ever give back. I have done things that most men sit around and dream about and all this because 12 years ago I sat at a table in a dusty ham club in New Mexico and took a test. Has ham radio not done the same for each of you? Then let’s fight the good fight…..
My plans are to stand and fight BPL, but fight it in a civilized manner. The BPL community is not playing by the rules with half-truths, political trickery, and technical data that is unfounded, but that’s ok. Cause if we stop them or force them to clean up BPL, we can say we did it fair and square, and if we are unsuccessful then at least ham radio will go down as it lived and performed, with some dignity. Let’s quit this talk of big guns and big amps and get busy fighting for our future! I urge each of you to take your anger and put it to good use. Spread the word, help with the struggle both mentally and financially, and continue to project the light of goodness that amateur radio has offered and continues to offer.
73
Jory
KJ5RM
ARRL Assistant Section Manager
NTX BPL Task Force
Posted by
KJ5RM on 2004-11-10
KJ5RM makes some good points.....illegal actions are not going to help our cause or get us anywhere. What I can't understand is why the BPL providers are not scared to death of our LEGAL activities......like just keying up near their system and wiping it out. If it is as susceptible as KJ5RM says, then I would think they would be running for cover. It also seems to me that the people we need to be getting the word out to are those poor suckers who will pay their money for BPL and then find out the neighborhood ham (legally operating) makes it useless.....or better yet, the poor sucker who sinks money into BPL stocks and finds out his stock is worthless when they finally have to shut down. It seems to me that hams should be turning out in droves to operate near the existing systems to show that the systems will not be reliable due to interference from licensed and legal services. So why isn't this happening? Or, could it be that our transmissions really DON'T bother them as much as we think (or hope)? It that's the case....we're cooked.
73
Posted by
W5EEX on 2004-11-10
Tongue in cheek!
I'll move my antennas. After all, someone from the FCC said that's all it takes, and we all know they must be right. Right?
Posted by
K8YC on 2004-11-10
Soon as the BPL system provides the funds, I'll raise my tower, or install a second one.
Posted by
X-WB1AUW on 2004-11-10
BPL
I think mobile operation and my trusty 44 Mag. will help cure the disturbance.
Ned
W8VFM
nedn@cass.net
Posted by
W8VFM on 2004-11-09
BPL
Don't worry act, build a nice 6 or 7 element beam for 11 meters drive arround listening on 14 get a good fix on it and start talking to the truckers (of course with the beam pointed at the insertion point).
Posted by
KC8YHW on 2004-11-08
BPL
Don't worry act, build a nice 6 or 7 element beam for 11 meters drive arround listening on 14 get a good fix on it and start talking to the truckers (of course with the beam pointed at the insertion point).
Posted by
KC8YHW on 2004-11-08
BPL
Don't worry act, build a nice 6 or 7 element beam for 11 meters drive arround listening on 14 get a good fix on it and start talking to the truckers (of course with the beam pointed at the insertion point).
Posted by
KC8YHW on 2004-11-08
It works both ways then..
I run a multi-port HF VHF UHF Packet BBS
It has 4 HF (80,40,30,20 mtrs)
Three VHF and 2 UHF ports. I doubt very many will have access to the internet in my neighborhood..
I have several towers and beams that if they need moved the BPL provider will have to pay to relocate them.. Where do you move three tower to on a small lot???
What an idiotic idea.. reloate antennas.. Maybe we should relocate the FCC to Iraq...
73 Jerry N9LYA
Posted by
N9LYA on 2004-11-08
I was here first! Turn up the power Maw! What interference, who me?
Larry
WA8QNN
Posted by
WA8QNN on 2004-11-08
RFI can go both ways!
If they RFI me, then get ready for a kilowatt of HF coming back at you!
If I see a box hanging from a pole around my house, it won't be there long!
Squirrels have been known to cause damage to utility equipment, right?
Posted by
W0LC on 2004-11-08
What interference?
I'm kinda ignorant and left behind on this BPL thing. What companies are installing it and where is it at this time? Sounds like some kind of plague that's speading across the nation! Here at my place in San Antonio, Tx., I've had no problem YET!? Has it made it this far yet? Hey, killer bees are spreading too. Maybe the boxes they install will make a great beehive for them. I just don't know. I'd imagine with the low income I have, I'd have to give the hobby up. Can't afford to do anything else but that. It seems that hams put up a good fight, but lost the battle. Thanx a million BIG companies. We appreciate the inconvience.
Posted by
W5LJM on 2004-11-08
Who's driving this push for BPL?
I'm suprised politics has not raised it's ugly head in this thread, unless it has been censored out. No troll intended. Let's see... where did this threat to Ham Radio come from. Bush... Power Companies. Bush... Power Companies. Naahhh it's impossible that the current Administration has anything to do with power companies and the government's irrational push of BPL forward. Funny thing is, most hams I know are Republicans! '73
Posted by
KD5RHR on 2004-11-08
Michael Powell
Evidently, according to his profile, Michael "Yes I'm a little puppy" Powell was in the service...and was wounded whilst on duty. Do ya think his own people shot him because he's such an asshole?
Just a thought.
HSH
Posted by
KB2HSH on 2004-11-08
BPL
1.) Powell takes his orders from Bush.
2.) The people who work for the FCC take orders from Powell.
If you want BPL to go away, put pressure on the source of the problem.Picking on the people people who are just following orders won't accomplish anything.
73 Tom
Posted by
W8JI on 2004-11-08
Continuing to go mobile...
I've had to operate mobile since some kind of interference started in the neighborhood a couple of years ago. (I don't think it's BPL but I am not sure what it is.) I've found several places that I can park with no power lines nearby and little noise. There are 3-4 places I tend to drive to. Nobody to be bothered by me and my truck parked there for hours. I have given up operating from my house. (THIS house, rather. I'm going to be looking for a new place with no interference, no HOA, no CC&Rs, or any of that other garbage.)
Posted by
AD7DB on 2004-11-07
Repostion them where???
The FCC forget to tell you - reposition your antennas 20 miles from the power line.
Not to worry though. Move into the country. There won't be BPL within 20 miles of any of the places it was supposed to serve. It will all be in the city right next to cable and DSL because that's where there is maximum support for the infrastructure.
The FCC commissioners don't have the slightest clue about the technology.
Posted by
AA4PB on 2004-11-06
Illegitimati Non-Carborundum
Don't let them wear you down!
BPL will not be the end of ham radio, though it will definitely give us something else to do during the low point of the solar cycle. Heck, I don't chase DX on 80 meters anyway, so what else did I have to do?
As much as I enjoy all the proposals for underground warfare, and do, indeed, intend to run a lot of high power digital modes, AM and maybe even very narrow FM mobile now, we need to be working on gathering data before BPL arrives in our homes, and developing contacts so we know where to go when BPL comes knocking on our door.
Is there a programmer out there with some experience with CAT and sound card interfaces, who could write us a program or a plug-in for the popular ham soundcard digital programs that would let hams make a sweep of the bands they use, and record the results? So many hams have Rigblaster-like setups now, it seems that would be a very simple way to document before and after BPL interference levels.
If we don't have baseline measurements, it will be difficult to show that the BPL system is causing the interference. In our trial here, we were told that they could not turn the system off, because to do so would require them to completely reprogram - they have no remote control capability. And, of course, initially, the BPL vendor insisted that the BPL interfernce was not caused by the BPL equipment - until someone from the power company took one of their units out to their lab and set it up next to a receiver and verified what we were telling them. So, expect to have to prove that the interference is really coming from the BPL stuff - baseline measurements and good records will help a lot.
Posted by
K0RGR on 2004-11-06
Nothing the NRA can't solve
No problem here. If it ever comes to my area I will shoot the repeaters continously.
WHAT INTERFERENCE?
Posted by
KC2JFS on 2004-11-06
KC2JFS IS RIGHT!!!
We should all take part in an annual shooting of the BPL connects. I think the founders of ham radio would smile in death.
"CQ BANG CQ BANG CQ BANG"
CIAO,
ANDY
Posted by
KC2GOW on 2004-11-06
BPL is a scam !
Some folks are going to get rich with this BPL crap, but it won't last long. Other technologies will leave it in the dust. Of course, we'll all have to pay higher electric bills so the electric companies can recover their losses. Meanwhile, I'll be selling stick-on targets for BPL boxes.
Jerry/N9AVY
P.S. I predict that when the end comes for BPL Powell will be found working at McDonald's.
Posted by
N9AVY on 2004-11-06
BPL
If BPL does not need a license to transmit on unshielded wires (also known as an antenna), then why in the world does anybody else need to go to the trouble of obtaining one to transmit on the same frequencies? I just checked and the Part 15 regulations have not been repealed. Therefore BPL must not cause harmful interference to licensed services and any interference to BPL from my LICENSED station must be accepted, including any interference that causes undesired operation. Remember, the FCC commissioner$ are appointed and most generally have no clue as to the physics of radio. But what they do know is how to unlawfully auction off spectrum to private corporations (and get their palms greased in the process) that belongs to the citizens (and not the government) and keep the money for themselves (the government, not the commissioners), which also belongs to the citizens. With all the spectrum auctioned off and the billions raked in by the gov't., I want my cut so that I can quit working and enjoy ham radio on a full-time basis. The only way I will move my antenna is to place it closer to a power line where my signal will be picked up by the power lines and be injected into the BPL system. A few hundred watts of FSK or PSK should get the neighbors wretching. I'll be willing to bet that the BPL modems will have Part 15 decals affixed to them, which will go unnoticed or ignored by exactly 100% of the users that have not paid them any mind on any other of the electronic equipment that they own.
Posted by
KN8AW on 2004-11-06
BPL Not a Problem?
I predict BPL will fail to succeed due to existing competition and because of the arrogance of decisions ignoring good science.
Bob / WA4MQW
Posted by
AD4MZ on 2004-11-05
linear amp arrr pirate style
bring out my old pirate amp for hf 10kw am on 6950kc. maybe 1.5kw with a beam on amateur and a lot of becons one on every legal beacon band manual and automatic operations depending on rules. if that doesn't work shotgun 12 gauge slugs and 357magnum with #7 federal rounds 125grain jacketed hollow point. and if that don't work I created a device to make the powerline your antenna granted you shouldn't have stuff plugged in and your transceiver must have another supply source, and it pretty much filters out the 60hzfrequency and puts rf out on it.
Posted by
KB3JJY on 2004-11-05
Just so everyone knows.
triunfos del arbusto
Buschgewinne
victoires de buisson
vittorie del cespuglio
vitórias do arbusto
Posted by
OLDFART13 on 2004-11-05
FUN JUST BEGAN
how manys ways to jam bpl? i dont know but we should start new topic catagory here on eham as way's to do it. offer a reward to the best design say new icom 7800 to the best design to bring down the system. hmmmmmmmm am on to somthing here???
Posted by
N3JBH on 2004-11-05
BPL Will succeed
Most of my county is not served by DSL nor by cable, so BPL will be wanted. But interference must not be allowed. Pressure on congress and FCC, but sadly not until it exists and we can prove it.
Posted by
GILLIAM_LINEBERRY_EX_N4VOX on 2004-11-05
The solution to BPL: RTTY contesting. Try RTTY with an ACOM 2000A amp. 1500watts continuos mode to a beam. Reach out and touch BPL. Of course if you don't have this much amp you could do it with 500watts too.
viva bush
Posted by
OLDFART13 on 2004-11-05
http://paratrooper.us/
Posted by
OLDFART13 on 2004-11-05
CW-BPL-QRP
Try it it's fun, just hook up your coax to the power lines, crank your radio down to zero and start sending code. It's a blast, there are a bunch of us doing it now, it's chirp free and we can talk all over the world for free.
Welcome BPL with open arms, and just run your coax right up there with it.....
Posted by
KU4QW on 2004-11-05
bplosaurus
bpl is a dinosaur fast on it's way to extinction. Power lines are just that.
It can't hope to compete with emerging technologies
If you're really that frightened of BPL then I say just jam it wherever you find it.
Ever seen what a baseball bat does to a mailbox?
73
NEO
Posted by
N9NEO on 2004-11-05
KA BOOM!!!!!!
Does any one have a shot gun????
I DO... hee heee heeeeee.
Posted by
VO1AAC on 2004-11-05
Doesn't even make sense
If BPL was geared towards people WAY out in the country, it might make more sense, and less interference.
Considering that BPL is being tested in the city, though, it just doesn't make sense. In the city you have the option of Wi-Fi, Cable, and DSL. I live in a tiny town of 7,000, and we have both Cable and DSL.
I just don't see where there could be a market for BPL. Who are you going to sell it to? Chances are, if the city is big enough to invest time and money in BPL, then it's probably big enough to have one of the other options already in place.
Wasn't there talk of electric service being de-regulated at one point? (Or has this already happened?) Maybe that's something that's going to happen, and BPL is just a service to give one power company an edge over another.
Posted by
K8NWX on 2004-11-05
432 Mc Is Beginning To Look Good
Dang, I wish that I hadn't spent all of that money on my HF gear...
Posted by
AC5CH on 2004-11-04
Don't sweat it!
This technology is not economicaly viable. It can not compete with cable, satellite and DSL whose infrastructure is already in place and making profit without interferance complaints. BPL will increase competition in the industry where limited deployments do occur and may even drive down the retail price of other ISPs. Money talks and BPL will soon disapear in a sea of red ink.
Posted by
K1KID on 2004-11-04
Don't sweat it!
This technology is not economicaly viable. It can not compete with cable, satellite and DSL whose infrastructure is already in place and making profit without interferance complaints. BPL will increase competition in the industry where limited deployments do occur and may even drive down the retail price of other ISPs. Money talks and BPL will soon disapear in a sea of red ink.
Posted by
K1KID on 2004-11-04
bpl
In jest ONLY!!
Where'd I put my chain saw?? Mark, KE3UY.
Posted by
KE3UY on 2004-11-04
BPL vs Citizens
Hello,
It is too bad to see the big companies
getting all the resources and the little
guys being jammed out of existance. I
guess that the concept of "the land of the
free" is going away.
This will impact short wave listeners,
radio control model operators, CBers,
amateur radio astronomers (Project Radio
JOVE), etc. in addition to amateur radio.
I suspect that it will be a nasty future.
73, Nickolaus E. Leggett, N3NL
Posted by
N3NL on 2004-11-04
Bush did it.
G W Bush stole the election and BPL is on the way. I'm mad as hell.
Posted by
TECH2004 on 2004-11-04
Bush did it.
G W Bush stole the election and BPL is on the way. I'm mad as hell.
Posted by
TECH2004 on 2004-11-04
Mobile Operation
If BPL gets anywhere within 20 miles of my qth I am going to go out 2-3 nights per week and with a 12 pack of beer I will ragchew under some power lines for the evening and have lots of fun doing it. Should be a blast.
Posted by
N3DRK on 2004-11-04
Mobile Operation
If BPL gets anywhere within 20 miles of my qth I am going to go out 2-3 nights per week and with a 12 pack of beer I will ragchew under some power lines for the evening and have lots of fun doing it. Should be a blast.
Posted by
N3DRK on 2004-11-04
The good 'ol FCC says you'll have to reposition your antenna if you get int
Usually I just laugh off any 'complaints' or criticizms I read from fellow Amateurs. This is a totally different situation. Contrary to what many believe, an amateur license is not free! We pay for testing then those like myself pay for a vanity license. We can be put to considerable expense when 'donating' our time, skills, and gas for disaster relief and public service events provided we have already purchased the necessary equipment to do so. Therefore, the FCC can not justify the 'reasoning' that our bands are given to us and therefore owe us no protection from commercial inteference. My dear brother ham's, we need to fight this one with all our might!
73 es hope to hear you on HF,
Ron, KX5RW
Posted by
KX5RW on 2004-11-04
.22 is quieter than that .308!
Not to condone this or anything, but some of these
southern boys that deer hunt might have a few "stray"
shots while sighting in the old rifle.
Actually, the microwave idea sounds good, as well as the
mobile 1 KW rig. Park that under the power line and key
up for a nice,loooong, DX conversation.
Posted by
KI4DUK on 2004-11-03
.22 is quieter than that .308!
Not to condone this or anything, but some of these
southern boys that deer hunt might have a few "stray"
shots while sighting in the old rifle.
Actually, the microwave idea sounds good, as well as the
mobile 1 KW rig. Park that under the power line and key
up for a nice,loooong, DX conversation.
Posted by
KI4DUK on 2004-11-03
I Welcome the BPL challange
Wake up and smell the future for it is here, now and forever. We hams must improvise, adapt and overcome whatever is tossed at us. Money is the trump card but tact will win the game. Invent! Build! Test!
Posted by
WD40 on 2004-11-03
Drown 'em!
I've always been a low-power fan, either QRP or just barefoot 6146's. A few years back I picked up an old Yaesu linear that had and still has a few problems. Well, the time has come to FIX the damn thing and align my major lobe with the power lines.
I just wonder how the power company can complain to the FCC if I just happen to be operating at the full legal limit with a legally clean signal and just happen to wipe out BPL service for the neighborhood?
Nothing against my neighbors, but we DO still have DSL and cable modem services.
Posted by
K4IQT on 2004-11-03
Bury the power lines
Around where I live in San Diego most of the power lines are buried. I have not seen anything about how likely it will be that we will have any interferece with BPL and buried power lines. Perhaps the ARRL should work with the FCC to revise the conditions that BPL is allowed to operate, and require that if BPL causes interference that the offending power line should be buried for a distance that eliminates the interfernce. At least that way both BPL and Hams could live in peaceful coexistence.
Posted by
N6ETE on 2004-11-03
Wireless access seems sooo much better!!
Just changed from dial-up to high speed (3MBs) wireless on 2.4GHz. How did I live without this for so long? Someone please tell those involved that this wireless microwave access is probably faster (and cheaper at $39.99 per month Canadian). And it only pollutes the 2.4GHz microwave bands. My 2.4GHz cordless phone is about to commit suicide! (Absolutley terrible interference in certain areas of my house.) How could those who propose Access BPL ignore the fact that wireless access works so much better...?! If all that I have to worry about is my cordless phone doing convulsions, then I think the obvious choice is very clear.
My two cents...VA6SZ Andy.
Posted by
VA6SZ on 2004-11-03
Wireless access seems sooo much better!!
Just changed from dial-up to high speed (3MBs) wireless on 2.4GHz. How did I live without this for so long? Someone please tell those involved that this wireless microwave access is probably faster (and cheaper at $39.99 per month Canadian). And it only pollutes the 2.4GHz microwave bands. My 2.4GHz cordless phone is about to commit suicide! (Absolutley terrible interference in certain areas of my house.) How could those who propose Access BPL ignore the fact that wireless access works so much better...?! If all that I have to worry about is my cordless phone doing convulsions, then I think the obvious choice is very clear.
My two cents...VA6SZ Andy.
Posted by
VA6SZ on 2004-11-03
Wireless access seems sooo much better!!
Just changed from dial-up to high speed (3MBs) wireless on 2.4GHz. How did I live without this for so long? Someone please tell those involved that this wireless microwave access is probably faster (and cheaper at $39.99 per month Canadian). And it only pollutes the 2.4GHz microwave bands. My 2.4GHz cordless phone is about to commit suicide! (Absolutley terrible interference in certain areas of my house.) How could those who propose Access BPL ignore the fact that wireless access works so much better...?! If all that I have to worry about is my cordless phone doing convulsions, then I think the obvious choice is very clear.
My two cents...VA6SZ Andy.
Posted by
VA6SZ on 2004-11-03
HPL
HPL (HAM over POWER LINE) is a wonderful concept that involves loading the local power company's laterals through your back yard with a current-coupling loop. It provides hours of phun watching local BPL service carrier trucks swap out modems with burnt front-ends.
As an alternative, perhaps hams can do point to point microwave experiments, such as determining how much path loss there is in Powell's house when jumpering out the safety interlocks, and putting a microwave oven at the focal point of a 10 meter dish, aimed at Powell's bedroom. This would provide valuable data as to how much power it takes to bring someone to the realization that the laws of this country were not meant to be broken by people trying to get rich on an ouddated, low-tech scheme that will defraud the general public..... again.
Power in a BPL System is cumulative according to user load, and bit-error-rate in a thunderstorm is out of this world.
The concept of feeeding RF into miles of wire is stupidy raised to the N to the Xth power, and is being rolled out to coincide with the lowest part of the sun-spot cycle. Wait 'til the peak; then try MAINSAIL at 11.175 MHz, USB.
LLoyd W. Phillips, former SBE FCC Liaison Committee Member.
Posted by
KC4VFP on 2004-11-02
BPL
For all the diehards that blindly support the ARRL, YOU now know what a loser really looks like. And yet you still give them money. Don't figure.
Posted by
WIRELESS on 2004-11-02
Fight back
I own a chain saw....and I am a damned good shot.....
Posted by
W9SN on 2004-11-02
Fight back
I own a chain saw....and I am a damned good shot.....
Posted by
W9SN on 2004-11-02
We don't need no stinking repositioning!
I should reposition my antennas, huh? OK, I will...reposition my 1kW mobile HF setup as close as possible.
Posted by
NX7U on 2004-11-02
BPL
They seem to forget about ingress. Wonder what is going to happen when some ham blasts TV's for miles.
Dave K4JRB
Posted by
K4JRB on 2004-11-02
economics and coping strategies
this could be a boon in disguise. By migrating to digital modes completely for voice, picture, data, at worst, we could communicate more effectively in the face of adverse conditions. At best, we might actually discover the some of these digital modes interfere with certain part 15 services.
From an economic perspective, BPL is probably going to be the next boondoggle in telecommunications investing. It has minimal bandwidth, high-risk destruction from lightning, has suspicions of reducing reliability of power systems, and cross subsidization from the electric utilities.
Which does give us another form of attack. By paying attention to your public utilities commission, you can register complaints against plans for BPL in your area.
take lessons from the light pollution control advocates. Power companies don't change fast. Anything that violates their ability to deliver highly reliable power is seen as a threat to be destroyed. Therefore, change takes time. You must be seen as their friends/ally if at all possible.
friendly persistence wins the battle every time.
Posted by
KA1EEC on 2004-11-02
BPL
No Problem with interference when I couple 2 KW backwards into the powerline - it just helps to get the good old wires glowing and the bpl-devices blowing
Mike, DL2DBY
Posted by
DL2DBY on 2004-11-02
BPL
No Problem with interference when I couple 2 KW backwards into the powerline - it just helps to get the good old wires glowing and the bpl-devices blowing
Mike, DL2DBY
Posted by
DL2DBY on 2004-11-02
the gov. again
one more time the goverment telling the people what to do. i thought it was the people who told the goverment what to do.
one more time we are SOL
Posted by
KG6PIR on 2004-11-02
the gov. again
one more time the goverment telling the people what to do. i thought it was the people who told the goverment what to do.
one more time we are SOL
Posted by
KG6PIR on 2004-11-02
No Where to Run To!!!!!
With the distribution line crossing the largest portion of a pie-shaped lot, I don't have any other place to put antennas. My flagpole vertical is the worst possible choice for rejection of BPL interference. However, the HOA is not going to give me a big 'thumbs up' for a tower/beam or even a wire antenna that might offend my neighbor's sensibilities. If BPL comes to a power pole near me, I will have some gear for sale and will be turning in a Call Sgin plate to the DMV.
Dennis / KG4RUL
P.S. Fixed income and CANNOT afford to relocate.
Posted by
KG4RUL on 2004-11-01
BPL Not Likely
BPL wouldn't fly around here. Besides, they would go broke, constantly replacing those pole-mounted interface boxes, that mysteriously blew up in the late evenings.
Posted by
KD7EZE on 2004-11-01
BPL Not Likely
BPL wouldn't fly around here. Besides, they would go broke, constantly replacing those pole-mounted interface boxes, that mysteriously blew up in the late evenings.
Posted by
KD7EZE on 2004-11-01
Double Post
Sorry about the double post. It seems this website still has these problems.
Posted by
KD7EZE on 2004-11-01
My Costs
With all the money these BPL companies have let them pay to have my tower moved.
Why should I pay the cost and get the headache because they have no idea about physics.
Posted by
N3GH on 2004-11-01
Timewave to the rescue!
I'm really sorry that BPL was "passed" by the FCC but we saw the writing on the wall. Big business has BIG money! I already own several outboard DSP units as well as several radios with DSP internally. It looks like we're going to need them!
Posted by
AF4KK on 2004-11-01
Protests!
We have other options available....
I envision a beam (one per band that affects my area-BPL, of course) suspended by a baloon about 190 feet in the air. (You buy weather balloons and fill them with gas that is lighter than air, usually helium or hydrogen.) 1500 watts effective radiated power. Practice CW. Practice CW often!
Remember their power line antennas are two-way roads, just like all antennas. I recall amateur radio interference is thought to be able to wipe out entire neighborhoods of PBL, and (in theory) only one of these is a radio service protected by regulation (however, I see this changing unless the more commercially viable broadband services quickly gain market share). The fact they are called power lines doesn't alter the laws of physics.
You may wish to point this beam at an offending PBL emmission point.
I think the loudest (and most dangerous) protest is to inform all the ARES/RACES/MARS/Salvation Army/Red Cross agencies we are withdrawing our support unless they join our protest in our behalf. I for one will not have my amateur radio interests relegated only to supporting emergency communications. It also has to be fun too!
(Yes, I have been an active ARES/RACES member every since I've been licensed as an amateur -- I consider such service to the community important.)
The 2nd edge of this sword is these may agencies determine we are _not_ needed and by and by the FCC determines there is no longer any need for amateur radio and they simply reassign all of the spectrum.
(A good reason to support the spectrum protection bill, but how many have bothered to write their congressmen about _that_ issue?! Really, I think that is far more important than PBL, which I think has a greater chance of failing to free market pressure of wireless systems).
Basically I think I may have gotten into this hobby too late. Just in time to see it's demise, which is sad.
Posted by
N0EW on 2004-11-01
BPL ugh!
As citizens of this great country, you have an opportunity to really send a message tomorrow. Get out and vote!
Dale WU7X
Posted by
WU7X on 2004-11-01
BPL
I don't intend to shutdown unless ordered to by the FCC. If my RTTY at 1000W is a problem, well too bad if thats what it takes to burn through the broadband noise. I will operate and I will experiment as always. BPL will be a bigger problem than plain ol'line noise, and TVI but it has to survive my operations as well.
BPL is slow and will be cranky anyway. Besides the cable companies will use their near monopoly on high speed access, drop their price and run BPL off of most poles.
Actually HOA's worry me a lot more than BPL. BPL is technical ignorance, HOA's are geared to control your life, not merely our ham radio hobby.
Posted by
N5LB on 2004-11-01
BPL a nightmare
With Duke Power crossing the middle of my farm their nearest approach around 100' from my house, I would have to have my house moved to escape BPL. Of course I could let dead trees block their access until they listen. It is funny what happens to scrub pines when the meet a chain saw.....
I doubt BPL will make it here I am at the very end and most of my neighbors are on Sat, Sat TV and Sat Internet and a lot of them reject the available DSL extension because of the cost. Most of us are retired, me on disability others here due to age.
We need to contact the US Congress and press them to pass the spectrum protection bill, to be sure the FCC starts to listen to us. With Fritz Hollings retiring we need to get on Congresses case, NOW!!!!
KA4PXK
Posted by
KA4PXK on 2004-11-01
Noise
After working 75 SSB in Florida's summer, noise is not new. Seperate receiving antennas are a given, anyway. Powerline noise is a BIG problem, along with electric fences, computors, and BPL.....
Illegitemi non carborundum...
Shannon Boal K4GLM
Posted by
K4GLM on 2004-11-01
Move antenna?...Right!
I'll move it......CLOSER to the power line, at the same time I add a 1KW linear.
73
Posted by
W5EEX on 2004-11-01
Move antenna?...Right!
I'll move it......CLOSER to the power line, at the same time I add a 1KW linear.
73
Posted by
W5EEX on 2004-11-01
10-meter Beacon
I have my 10-meter beacon station ready to go. The antenna will be on my property 3 feet from the right of way for the power line. Not only can I provide a service to operators providing a way to know when 10 meters is open but to also provide the same signal for that unshielded data line for what ever use the BPL service might also use it for. The local cable provider shields there lines and have no problems. I think the BPL provider might have a big problem after thousands of beacon stations suddenly appear as BPL grows.
Posted by
N4ZOU on 2004-11-01
Move to where?
Haven't got an antenna up yet (gotta pass 5 wpm first), but my yard's small, so there's nowhere to move anyway. For those w/ a tower on a poured concrete pad, I'm betting there are not going to be too many rushing to move them.
OTOH, I do not see BPL ever being viable economicly in my neighborhood, cable and DSL are too heavily intrenched. Only in remote and/or rural areas can I imagine it becoming being even remotely economicly viable. Time will tell.
Posted by
KB1LKR on 2004-11-01
re BPL Not Likely
The ones with the 308. bullet holes in them....
George NE2I
Posted by
NE2I on 2004-11-01
re BPL Not Likely
The ones with the 308. bullet holes in them....
George NE2I
Posted by
NE2I on 2004-11-01
BPL unlikely nearby
Fortunately, I live at least a quarter mile from above-ground power lines - all underground in my area, and the Cable TV and telco DSL people have internet access pretty well handled, so BPL wouldn't get much market share. I do worry about the propagation from those miles-long antennas though!
Posted by
KQ6Q on 2004-11-01
bpl
The founding fathers said a REVOLUTION now and then is a good thing...maybe now that BPL is lurking around a REVOLTION is just what Hams need to do.
Posted by
N8KIP on 2004-11-01
bpl
The founding fathers said a REVOLUTION now and then is a good thing...maybe now that BPL is lurking around a REVOLTION is just what Hams need to do.
Posted by
N8KIP on 2004-11-01