Survey Comments
Traditions
Call me a traditionalist, that is why I am so pissed off with what they did to ham radio. Oh.....code is too hard.....whine whine whine...
When I was earning my engineering degree did I say Oh, the math is too hard...whine whine...NO, I did what it took, and suffered through it and became a stonger person. The educational requirements for an engineering degree is based on tradition of what it took to become an engineer, for many engineers before me.
When I earned my black belt in traditional Japanese Karate...did I say..whine whine...oh it's too hard...No, it took me 4 times to test before I earned my full blackbelt rank...4 times, but I did not quit.
The requirements to make the rank of blackbelt is based on age old tradition of martial artists that came before me.
I had problems with my code...did I whine?...no I studied harder, became more proficent and did it again to pass. No whine, I just did it. CW might be a outdated technology, but it is based on the age old tradition of hams that came before us.
That is the reason that the United States has to import a great portion of our intellectual workforce.
The parents of our present generation do not teach their children that education is paramount in this world, if you expect to go anywhere
The old days of hard work in the US, as far as the new generation are over.
The present world is too much about instant gradification. Not earning something through blood, sweat and tears.
I offer this perspective not to rain on anyone's parade, but to present my point of view, that this outlook of eliminating a barrier to obtain an amateur radio license makes the license diluted and not so special anymore. That is why I have not upgraded from the advanced license, to make a statement that I did it the hard way. The extra class was a difficult barrier I was working on when they took away the 20wpm. That was quite dissappointing.
I realize it is a hobby and I also realize the economic criteria behind the equipment manufactuers wanting to make more hams to generate more revenue and to band load, so that the interests of corporate world do not take away anymore bandspace.
Life is about challenges. You get a sense of accomplishment when you work hard and succeed. If everything is given to you, then where is the pleasure in that. It is about the journey and not the destination.
Enough said..I think you all get my point. Hopefully noone will take offense. Just the way I lead my life and it is strictly my opinion.
Posted by
KB6QXM on 2006-09-12
I got my novice ticket in 1978. I will tell you all, I learned so much just getting on the air with low power, crystal controlled and CW with a "no gain antenna". It made me WANT to excel to the general class ASAP. As I worked CW, my speed increased automatically, just by PRACTICE on the air. I confess, I was a CBer first, then a short wave listener. It was on SW I heard that funny code stuff. I WANTED to find out what it was and what it said. And I repeat-I WANTED TO. Why did I want to? I knew that to go higher in this hobby, I had to learn, study, practice and have a GENUINE desire to be a top notch ham radio operator. BRING BACK THE NOVICE TICKET. Those who WANT to excel will learn alot doing this. I am tired hearing about how we have to increase our numbers because the FCC will take away our freq's. You say 220??? no one used it-it was useless. THATS why we lost some of it-we did not USE it, not because there were not enough hams!. Make the licensing a challenge like it was before. You may not get a ton of new hams, but you will get BETTER hams, more knowledgeable hams, more DEDICATED hams who want to learn more, excel more and eventually carry this attitude on to even more newer ops. Give it away-you lose value. Work for it-ITS PRICELESS.
Posted by
KU2US on 2006-09-01
Just remember:
arrl voted FOR insentive licensing before it voted AGAINST insentive licensing!
Posted by
W9WHE-II on 2006-08-10
If so put a time limit on it
I think the U.K. has learned a sorry lesson because the Foundation License has access to all the HF bands and also including 10 meters later this year, there is no reason for someone to upgrade their callsign as they got it all for minimum effort. There should have been a time limit put on the Foundation License that if you did not upgrade in a given time then your license could be revoked. Now the Foundation License is to be a Free License For Life with all other classes of License, even less reason to study and upgrade. As far as the 10 watt power limit goes, whose to know what power a station is using, i know some who use Amplifiers and have a Foundation Call so please dont do it if you cherish your hobby at all. OK it will get more on air but operating standards will go to hell as some dont want to learn and tell you where to get off if you try to advise them.
Posted by
MI0AAZ on 2006-06-18
Real Hams? Yeah Right!
I see where many have wrote that you should have to work to get your amateur radio license, and how the bands are or have turned into nothing more than CB. I submit that it's been that way for a long time, even before the no-code issue became an issue. The fact is you can listen anytime on HF and hear some of the worst that humankind has to offer down in the mighty HF region. And this is the alleged "Real Ham" band. These are the same people that come here and tell us how the bands will go to pot if the FCC does away with CW testing and how it will be utter chaos unless there are some licensing controls in place.
Say What??
Listen anytime in certain areas of the HF band and you'll hear racial slurs, sexual statements, and some of the absolute WORST language a human being could ever flow from their lips. And people are being told they have to WORK to get on these bands?
I realize the people who operate this way are not representative of amateur radio in general, no matter what band you operate in. But when people comment here how they've "dumbed down" amateur radio, and how HF is where "real hams" operate, you will always have people who not only feel differently than you do but will point out some FACTS that you might not want brought into the open about HF operating. So you learn CW, study the book and get your license to operate the big-time HF band. Then you suddenly realize it ain't so big-time with all the bullcrap you have to muddle through. And then you realize you'd better be real careful where you let your own family listen in the all-mighty HF region because they will likely get a lesson in how NOT to talk to other human beings. Some people might deduce that VHF/UHF operation wasn't so bad after all.
I think people are wondering just where the HF band could get any worse than the current big-time operators have already made it. Now I'm not saying all operators are this way but the fact remains that it's already this way and has been this way for a very long time now, even BEFORE the 1990's restructuring took place.
I don't see how those who are throwing stones here can do so when the operating practices in their beloved HF band are and have been so bad you can't even let your own kids listen in certain places. And these same people have the gall to say how 2-meters sounds like CB, and HF is for real hams.
Someone needs a reality check here.
I'm not saying one band is better than any other. I'm not even for or against any one band. My only point here is how many people turn a blinds eye to the degenerate issues going on within the HF bands, which is the main point of discussion here. Many comments are from people saying how they fear allowing those in who have not undergone current US license testing because the HF bands will turn into CB.
News Flash: It's been CB in many areas for a long time now, and licensing had nothing to do with it. PEOPLE are the cause, not license restructuring.
Posted by
YEPSURE on 2006-06-05
Foundation License
I don't think we need one in this country. The current Technician license covers almost the same question syllabus as the British Foundation license.
However, we learned through the Incentive Licensing fiasco that you must never, ever take away priveleges that have been earned. I do think it would be great if the priveleges for the Tech license were more in line with the depth of technical knowledge involved. One way to do this would be to provide a different entry license with limited frequency/band priveleges that would be more attractive than the current Tech. I think it might be hard to do that and still have a meaningful exam. I think the new Tech curriculum is a big improvement over what we've had.
Posted by
K0RGR on 2006-06-05
hear, hear VWM
Well said, VWM. And, by extension, that theme applies to us all in in the conduct of our every-day lives.
Posted by
W2RDD on 2006-06-04
same page
VWM I GUESS WERE ON THE SAME PAGE, GOOD POST.
73, K7VIN
Posted by
KLEMM on 2006-06-04
No Code UK, here or Anywhere
I agree with many of the comments regarding no code. I think the Manufactures of Radio Equipment, and Publications are driving this movement for increased profits. CB at one point sold millions, but look at it now. It doesn't have to do with hobby growth, because "AR" has grown from the beginning. Don't let greed diminish a hobby that is great. If you work for it you will treasure it. Just look at other give-away-programs that have began. I'll let you decide. I worked for it and I love it. If you want amateur radio to grow more, encourage manufacturing of lower cost equipment, cheaper dues for clubs and organizations & training in all facits of. our hobby.
Posted by
WB2KGD on 2006-06-03
dont worry folks
dont worry so much folk,s the code will live on for years and years to come as long as there is ham Radio there will B3e code, 73Bill
Posted by
KD4MXE on 2006-06-03
TECH BASHING
It's realy sad to see some of you bash the tech's and those that use 2 meters. I live in the Phoenix area and I have been on VHF and UHF and have never heard anything like you hear on CB. But I must say that some of you that have been on HF sometimes do. I was taken back when I scanned 3.840.
durring the nights. I have heard someone that was drunk rattle like he was talking to his bar buddies. And at other times you can hear others trash about a radio personality
that can't defend himself.Would you call them bullies, drunks, or CBers with General or Extra License's.So next time you knock people that are useing VHF 2M listen to all the bands before passing judgement.It's not the License that makes the hobby good it's us, the collective unit of what we expect from each other.If we allow one person to misuse his privalige we all loose.
The FCC is only the judge we are our own security. We are fortunate that on 2m we have repeater owners and Repeater assoc. that won't allow people with bad mouths to opperate. So please , don't lie to get your point accross about cw and how techs. are like CBrs because it's not true.
73, K7VIN VINNY
Posted by
KLEMM on 2006-06-03
Amateur Class
You are not a license, you are the same person regardless of what version of paper is issued to you.
People don't become good or bad hams because of a piece of paper issued to them by the FCC any differently than a good or bad driver on the road is in possession of a paper issued to them by the DOT.
It's not about the paper...
In fact it's not even about the class or division of license issued to any individual that's going to make any improvement or difference in Amateur Radio.
...It's you and only you, that can make that difference!
You either aspire to become a good ham, or conduct yourself as a complete lid on the air regardless of license class nonsense.
There is no license class, change of power level, change of paper, change of call sign, modification of operating privileges anyone can bestow on anyone that will serve to make any significant difference or will suddenly change that simple fact.
73
Posted by
KC8VWM on 2006-06-03
MUR -Really?
The only reason that - Multiple Use Radio - isn't OVER-RUN is that it hasn't TOTALLY gotten into the PUBLICS HANDS "YET!"...It's still in "VIRGIN STAGES" - even with the FCC and with more Petetions filed in regards to it. But there's another example to "WATCH AND SEE" but then, VHF MURS or FRS is NO COMPARISON to HAM RADIO! I really believe that the Honest Truth about HAM RADIO is the - FACT - that it is largely POLICED, by Ham Operators - THAT WILL, "RECORD" Intentional Interference, Illeagal Operations, Profane Language, and Drunken Operators ONLY out for an Argument, and then...(Recordings & So Forth)Turn them IN TO THE FCC. THAT my Friends, is what COULD NOT, BE DONE IN CB or FRS! STILL...this Topic could be DISCUSSED forever, "BUT" if the FCC mailed the Ham community a FLYER - asking for a "TRUE VOTE by ALL Licensed Operators" Then I am certain that Vote will REFLECT what the "TRUE MAJORITY - BY VOTE - WILL BE"...STOP WHINING about something we've done and WORKED, for over a 100 years, and "JUST STUDY" (like so many thousands before you HAVE DONE) and then, You Too - WILL EARN - YOUR LICENSE - OR UPGRADE! (PERIOD)We've already MODIFIED our license system and testing once...NOW if that isn't Good enough? Then let's just GO BACK TO NOVICE CLASS, you know...Before we had, all of this "WHINING"
Posted by
NE5C on 2006-06-02
CB vs. Amateur Radio
With all the controversy over CB'ers getting into ham radio (and to a point it is) but you'd think all that is heard on 2m or any other band is CB style b.s. operating. Far from it. I listen to the local repeaters on VHF and UHF in the metro Detroit, Michigan area and here in southern Ontario and you hear nothing. No CB style operating but actually nothing. The repeaters are dead. A few are active for the morning commute and many that have nets are active at net time but otherwise silence.
I started to enjoy this hobby again after 30 years of operating when I started to spend more time on the HF bands and frequencies other than the local 2 meter repeaters. Do you want nothing but CB style socializing then stay on the repeaters...when they are active. But if you want to actually enjoy the hobby then get on the HF bands or modes of operation on the VHF bands other than FM. And if you really gotta work FM then try 10FM or 6FM or even simplex on 2, 220 and 440.
Maybe that's the answer. Allow the no-code "Foundation" style licencees onto the bands but not on the repeaters.
Just a thought.
VE3ES
Posted by
VE3ES on 2006-06-02
EASY & FREE is NOT BETTER!!!
It wasn't long ago that my Wife purchased a pair of FRS radios so that we could make a trip and speak from both Vehicles that had to be used in our travel! I've been a Ham for years , yet never owned or used FRS. What really shocked us both while using FRS was the language VULGARITY, and Moral Disregard for others, that we encountered all along this 6Hr trip! And most shocking was that the MAJORITY of those we encountered sounded like Teens, that needed their butts "Fanned" with a good old Fashioned Peach Limb! What is my Point you ask? While some may attempt to COMPARE cell phones and FRS, as competition to "Ham Radio" I sure hope that what we encountered (that I definitely compare to "CB") remain right where they are! While some won't SPEAK OUT, "YES"... we do need some sort of HONORABLE and MORAL sense of ETHICS, represented in our testing that "YES" will hopefully "WEED OUT" those that would purchase a Ham radio and use it like a CB or FRS "WITHOUT A CODE OF ETHICS!" Murphy's Law states that IF IT CAN GO WRONG...IT WILL -- NOW THEN???... if you know that sticking your fingers in a Live High Voltage socket will shock you, then WHY would you do it? CB and FRS, are already "PRIME EXAMPLES" of what happens when you DO, WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY DONE - as in the case that CB (27Mhz) was once a part of the Ham Radio Band. "OK" they did just what some would now CRY to do...They took it, they made it so easy, so anyone could open a cracker Jack box, get a Radio, and get on the air..."Duuhhhhhhhhhhh?????" Don't you think that common sense denotes exactly what that experiment has already... SHOWN US???? Honestly, while many Folks in this world are NOT "BAD PEOPLE, WITH OUT ETHICS" I truly have encountered quite a few that believe now a days, that they - don't have to "WORK" TO GAIN something worthwhile! Let us please remember the most important things that "MOMMY and DADDY" hopefully began teaching us as CHILDREN, that "SOMETHING WORTH ANYTHING... MUST BE WORKED FOR!" and of course we cannot forget that AGE OLD LESSON...THERE ARE RULES AND LAW...That we all must follow, or else we will find "OUT OF CONTROL, LAWLESS, USELESS MESS!" Need Proof???? You can easily see that example of this now, on channel 19 on a CB Radio or FRS! again...what can I say but "Duuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!"
Posted by
NE5C on 2006-06-01
N5JFJ is right
This comment sure hits the nail on the head. I too have a set of useless FRS radios and have never heard the F word used so much by a bunch of punk kids. Yes we need young blood coming in, but only the kind of blood that has the drive and interest in radio to work toward a goal. I learned a long time ago after raising three children, that unless they are motivated and have to work toward the goal, they don't appreciate it. Please ARRL and others no more recruiting slackers into the hobby.
Judging by the amount of comments vs votes here this is yet another slanted poll with some people voting more than once.
Posted by
W8WLC on 2006-06-01
Just for the Buck!
Guys i hate to say it but morals etc have nothing at all to do with it. Really good to see so many speaking up so now maybe everyone does'nt believe i'm the only one seeing this problem. This is just about the almighty buck, its just another fund raiser via dumbing us down and getting more "bodies" into the hobby. More bodies, more sells...We've kept Riley busy in this part of the country but he's only one man with the whole amateur spectrum as well as all his other services to take care of. Please everyone just don't turn a deaf ear to filth on the air etc. Record it, time stamp it and put the freq on there and send it to Riley. Believe me he will put the brakes on this crap on the bands. If we all don't stand together on these issues then we become the filth we recruit because we turn a deaf ear to it and spin the vfo. Thanks, John WR8D
Posted by
WR8D on 2006-06-01
NO code entrey -Power limit
NO - Because, Who is going to enforce a power limit. Surely not the FCC. They can't enforce the existing rules. Excuse - no manpower.
Posted by
KA2LIM on 2006-06-01
They DON'T LISTEN...To US!
I certainly do appreciate the FACTS stated that The HAM COMMUNITY isn't truly being LISTENED TO, or APPRECIATED, as in the case of BPL, and Relaxing our STANDARDS, by those that "ONLY CARE ABOUT A BUCK!" so on and so forth...Hey Maybe as an IDEA...we can begin to INVITE our Congress Men and Women (or Try) to our Hamfests, I've seen literally many hundreds if not a thousand Hams visiting these Fests and Flea Markets...Now there is a place to show them HOW TO GET VOTES...Laughing, maybe, just Maybe they will listen and get INVOLVED with something as simple as an INVITATION. Never know until you TRY...God Bless & 73's.
Posted by
NE5C on 2006-06-01
Know Code?
There are only two things that keep Amateur Radio from becoming like FRS/GMRS or CB. It has nothing to do with how hard it is to obtain the license. It has to do with the price and availability of radios that are capable of operating on Amateur frequencies.
MURS, a license by rule VHF service, is not overrun by idiots. MURS radios are not available at Walmart. You have to work to find them.
That is the only real control a radio service has as far as keeping control of its frequencies. We'd like to think the FCC will protect us, and they will as long as the number of complaints are small, but they can't when a service is invaded with cheap, easy to get radios (like 11 meter CB and GMRS.) FRS was designed to be a cesspool from the beginning.
11 meter CB and GMRS were sane services when radios were expensive, had nothing to do with licensing. CB was running out of control while it was still a licensed service. GMRS is still a licensed service and look what is happening to it.
An entry level license for Amateur Radio will not cause it to be invaded by hooligans. It will create a more solid base of users and help to keep corporations' greedy eyes off Amateur frequencies. Even with easy licensing there will be nowhere near the numbers needed to catch a “cheap radio” manufacturer's attention.
Posted by
WG7G on 2006-06-01
No Code!
Hey guys
CW is just a mode, like others.
So why test it.
I'm a no-code, but Full Licenced HF operator, and yes i do (machined) CW.
I'm happy with it, so why do YOU code hams complain?
73 de Jean-Pierre, PE1NPG
Posted by
PE1NPG on 2006-05-30
foundation ticket
i dont support any downgrading or giving away of ham radio.
the cb mentality already permeates our bands because of what has occured so far.
those in other countries can do what they want.
leave it alone...what we need is more good cw ops right now, not foul mouth idiots
Posted by
K7NNG on 2006-05-30
We already have one. It's called the tech.
What would adding a Foundation license add?
HF?
Posted by
KE6PID on 2006-05-30
Remember
I guess most of the guy's weren't around during the cb insanity of the mid 70's. Those of us that were can only hope that cw stay's as some kind of test for a license. Just listen to what's happened to the 2M repeaters, not to mention 10M and 6M! I just want to throw up when I hear the "what's yer 20" or "I'm pushin about a gallon here" lingo, it's disgusting...the hobby has already taken enough of a down-grade! Sadly, the above mentioned scenario was how you got a cb license back in those day's, the way the license structure is today, it's not that much different...
Posted by
W0BNE on 2006-05-30
No Code!
The problem is not to cull those who are thinking about Amateur Radio but it is to get as many people INTERESTED as possible. For most people Amateur Radio isn't that interesting.
While it is possible for some kids to pass the Tech test it is still tough enough that it will make many (including potentially interested adults) not even try. This is not completely their fault
Amateur Radio has a lot of competition these days. Wireless communication is no longer a magical thing to kids who take for granted cellphones, wireless networking, $10 UHF transceivers (FRS/GMRS) that actually work fairly well for the price and the internet.
They need to be exposed to Amateur Radio such that it creates a curiosity within them to understand why things work rather than treating every communication device as an appliance. This can't be done by placing (what seems like) insurmountable barriers between them and Amateur Radio.
I would like to see a Foundation License that is heavy on basic dc theory with a smattering of reactance, maybe even a diode or two and give them access to parts of the 2 meter band with limited power.
As was mentioned before, cw is just one of the many modes available in Amateur Radio. Everyone has their favorite modes. Singling out one of the modes to use as a personality filter does more harm than it does good. Some rather unsavory people can do code well.
Posted by
WG7G on 2006-05-30
No Code!
The problem is not to cull those who are thinking about Amateur Radio but it is to get as many people INTERESTED as possible. For most people Amateur Radio isn't that interesting.
While it is possible for some kids to pass the Tech test it is still tough enough that it will make many (including potentially interested adults) not even try. This is not completely their fault
Amateur Radio has a lot of competition these days. Wireless communication is no longer a magical thing to kids who take for granted cellphones, wireless networking, $10 UHF transceivers (FRS/GMRS) that actually work fairly well for the price and the internet.
They need to be exposed to Amateur Radio such that it creates a curiosity within them to understand why things work rather than treating every communication device as an appliance. This can't be done by placing (what seems like) insurmountable barriers between them and Amateur Radio.
I would like to see a Foundation License that is heavy on basic dc theory with a smattering of reactance, maybe even a diode or two and give them access to parts of the 2 meter band with limited power.
As was mentioned before, cw is just one of the many modes available in Amateur Radio. Everyone has their favorite modes. Singling out one of the modes to use as a personality filter does more harm than it does good. Some rather unsavory people can do code well.
Posted by
WG7G on 2006-05-30
Entry License???
We already did this back in the early 80's. It was called the novice ticket with limited access to hf and power limitations. Oh i forgot, now with the current fund drive going on its only politicially correct to give hf access away. No work, no gain, it goes along with our welfare state we live in. You have it but my toe is sore so i'll sit on my ass and the government will give it to me so i can be just like you. When i'm equal to you then i can get off this medication i'm taking. Our world sure has gotten in a mess. How in the world can so many of you support anything like this? You can't possibly be so blind or deaf. I work long hours for a living and most times its 6days a week. I've not tested in over 15 years or cracked a book either, i took three online extra tests the other day and passed with flying colors. How much easier do we need to make it? We need to take a good look at what we were, then another at what we're rapidly becoming and stop this "dumming down". Really sad. 73 John
Posted by
WR8D on 2006-05-29
Changes
Seems we will have the CB mentality here soon as we always make changes to make so easy for newbies. On the other haqnd it would be good to get new hams in to protect our frequencies as well, there must be a happy medium somewhere and code even at the rediculous level of 5 wpm should be mandatory. CW is our tradition!!
Posted by
W1EMJ on 2006-05-29
A View from the UK
I was one of the first to go through the complete new system here in the UK and am now a fully fledged instructor.
The Foundation License thing is a great idea. from a personal point of view I think the foundation level is TOO EASY.
I have been involved with training over 100 licensees. and the average mark on the examination has been 22/25 (88%) with a passmark of 18. I have only known two candidate fail and only known 3 ace the exam.
However listening to a group of ex-CBers that have appeared lately purporting to be Foundation Licensees.
One of whom was boasting about failing the exam TWICE and then getting 100%.
This shows the flaw in the system as the exams are 'ondemand' and locally marked (ie there and then) the potential for 'adjustment' is great and something that I am sure happens.
Of the 100 or so people that I have helped get there foundation license only 3 or 4 have progressed to the next level as the void is TOO great.
In the foundation licence require mere lip service to even the most basic electronics principals.
The Intermediate level covers transitor theory,inductance, basic tuned circuits etc. which is quite a big jump from the ohms law triangle.
To make a foundation license worthwhile it need to be both accessible and challenging. This may reduce the number of candidates but increase the quality.
Tutors also need to drum any restrictions into the candidates so that they FULLY understand what they are and WHY they are there.
For instance in the UK foundation Licensees are restricted to 10 dbW at the antenna feed point NOT the back of the radio or ERP.
This is something that I take time to explain in my teaching including explaining about feeder & insertion loss.
I also take time to explain why they are restricted to just 10dbW and why it need not be a handicap.
Posted by
M0NBY on 2006-05-29
Code Requirement
I am a licensed technician who believes that I SHOULD be required to master and pass the minimum 5wpm current code requirement.
Although I am having a difficult time mastering the code, I know that anything worthwhile doing is worth the struggle to achieve.
The code is an art that is still important to master. From what I read and hear morse code is still used in times of emergency when all other modes of communication have failed.
Why are we "dumbing down" our requirements for licensing?
Haven't we "dumbed down" enough of our standards in our modern American society?
Posted by
KC8TBY on 2006-05-28
Code Requirement
I am a licensed technician who believes that I SHOULD be required to master and pass the minimum 5wpm current code requirement.
Although I am having a difficult time mastering the code, I know that anything worthwhile doing is worth the struggle to achieve.
The code is an art that is still important to master. From what I read and hear morse code is still used in times of emergency when all other modes of communication have failed.
Why are we "dumbing down" our requirements for licensing?
Haven't we "dumbed down" enough of our standards in our modern American society?
Posted by
KC8TBY on 2006-05-28
How about the FCC providing new bands and good old fashion testing of real radio theory and CW with no answers provided for a new radio service. Lets see if we could get the pretty much abandoned 500Khz band and maybe a few others in between some of the existing ham bands. This way the guys that are really serious about radio and expermenting would have a place to go and leave the other soon to be CB style bands behind for the whiners and lazy people. The new radio service would have nothing to do with the ARRL and other so called guardians of ham radio. We don't need to attract new people who are not motivated enough to study and learn something to ham radio. This is one of the most lame arguements that continues beating the poor dead horse to a pulp
Posted by
W8WLC on 2006-05-28
One License
Early in my life (14 yrs) I received my novice license. Within 6 mos my general and in another 2 years, my extra. I also took and passed my 1st class commercial radio license at the age of 19. Well, some years ago, the FCC took away my 1st class commercial and gave me a "general" radio operators license ... which they don't even bother to track (lifetime member ship)!!
Now I am to lose the Extra, which I worked so hard for when I was only 16!!
Thanks ...
Posted by
K3SUI on 2006-05-28
Last night a friend sent me over to www.vanityhq.com to see what's available. What surprised me were the hams who requested callsigns that were not in line with those the FCC issues ! Why would any US ham request a callsign that has a prefix for another country or even a CB style (3 letters + 4 numerals ). If this an example of what the entry level would bring into this hobby; then, we might just be better off without them and/or the vanity call program.
Posted by
N9AVY on 2006-05-27
no code nuts
Are those will will get into the hobby by this continued bull++++ worth getting????
This question should not even be asked, unless you just want to give the license away and thats what is going on.
Posted by
WB8UHZ on 2006-05-27
HF Access
The problem, as I see it, is that the U.S. presently offers no entry level access to the HF bands. We should be encouraging new hams to experience HF, not encouraging them to purchase an HT and work only FM and repeaters.
Posted by
AA4PB on 2006-05-22
Entry level license comment
I voted yes on this one only because I think the hobby could use more people who would be genuinely interested in the great things about ham radio.
I don't want to give it away either since I came up through the incentive licensing system. I took my code tests and got a 2 year novice license which I wanted to upgrade to get more frequencies and modes. Eventually I made Extra Class but only after a lot of hard work, which made it worth doing. I quickly found the lure of radio was the long distance HF aspect of contacting a ham on the other side of the world. This other ham could barely speak English and I could not speak his language but somehow through Q-signals and some simple phrases we had a memorable QSO. Today with 1 more to go for DXCC Honor Roll I see where 80% of all my countries were cw, and continue today to work about 70% of new ones on cw. So I think cw still a viable global mode. It may be the lowest common demoninator of modes but it gets the job done and its worth knowing.
The worst thing we have done to the hobby is to give a kid a tech license and an HT and let him have the thrill of working and FM repeater across town. No code, no challenge, no work, boring, he's gone.
So, let's show the new guys and gals HF and let them learn that inside of our city limits cell phones and repeaters are great but not as fun as talking around the world with the power of a light bulb or less. That's what hooked me and I really think its a great hobby.
73
K4WY
Posted by
K4WY on 2006-05-22
removing cw comments
it took me 5 days to learn the code characters and a few days more to copy 5 wpm, but of course i wanted to do it , some people just like to talk, that involves some watts.you can copy cw under conditions phone would be unuseable. i know hams that only wanted to use phone but after they learned cw they hardly use phone anymore.I have noticed some old timers that think they are the only ones that can use a frequecy and they also are getting fowl mouthed. sort of reminded me of cb radio. you will also have people using radio without a licsence. like the person who made a comment on may 21 2006 call sign began with an (I). i think e ham should monitor this site Better. ka9hjz
Posted by
KA9HJZ on 2006-05-22
Isn't it easy enough?
Roads are too crowded with angry, agressive drivers who lack skills and insurance. I think we need harder road tests and psyche profiles of wanna-be drivers.
Guns find their way into criminal hands because buying and re-selling them is too easy. Tougher screening and mandatory hard time should be a barrier and a consequence.
Don't get me started on airline security. Google El-Als security precautions - flying is a privilege, not a birthrate. Submit to a national ID check or take the bus or train.
Voting?! Too much ignorance in the booth. How about a test on current events and government? Have you ever heard or read the comments by voters AND non-voters?
I knew more as a novice in 1971 than some of the Extras I hear today. Sure, the code should be an elective test. But, publishing the exam question pool?!?!? C'mon, if you're unable to demonstrate sufficient knowledge and skill to maintain and operate a proper radio transmitter, you should be limited to CB/FRS.
The spectrum is too crowded. If the FCC wants our frequencies, they take 'em whether we have 750,000 operators or 7,500,000.
I'd be curious to see if anyone has done a correlation analysis between active voters and license class/years licensed. What a surprise that would be, huh?
I think we've dumbed-down this country enough, don't you?
Posted by
N9CYS on 2006-05-22
Don't Give The Ticket Away
I earned my ticket the old fashioned way. I learned code, all the basic electronic stuff. I busted my you know what. It's not fair to all of us that worked for it to now give it away or make it extra easy to get a ticket. I know it's all about money. If that's the case then grandfather me to the top of the class otherwise leave it alone.
Posted by
KA2HHB on 2006-05-21
To WD4PXL
Perhaps you're not interested in building. but I'm pretty sure there are thousands out there that enjoy it. Ask Ramsey Electronics.
Everyone is always looking for the easy way out. OK so Heathkit is gone but so what there are others. I enjoy the scent of rosin core solder in the morning.....
Posted by
KA2HHB on 2006-05-21
We... used to SET THE STANDARD!!!
Strange...That we now ask should we do what this LITTLE COUNTRY is doing, or that one? I remember back when it took years for other Countries to MEET OUR STANDARD and Made in America, meant something. You know the Ham community is a close knit bunch...we are I believe that is a FACT! I'd love to know how many Votes out here are FOREIGN and /Or the Class of Operators casting the most Votes...that that would shed some light on this Topic. As long as we don't CREATE CB RADIO, on the Ham Bands...OKay "WHAT-EVER WORKS" But I say for the last time...you make it TOO EASY...FREE...TOO SIMPLE - and MARK MY WORDS - IT WILL BE - DESTROYED BY OVER ABUSE!!!
Posted by
NE5C on 2006-05-21
Canada as well
Here in Canada the same Foundation Licence idea is now being "studied" by the authorities.
The first thing I think should be studied is that as the UK claims that it has 8000 new Hams join the ranks under their new "Foundation" licence, how much trouble and bother have these 8000 new Hams caused?
Also, where are they to be restricted to on the bands?
I agree that we need more people in the hobby, but at what price?
Posted by
VE7CVQ on 2006-05-21
Canada as well
Here in Canada the same Foundation Licence idea is now being "studied" by the authorities.
The first thing I think should be studied is that as the UK claims that it has 8000 new Hams join the ranks under their new "Foundation" licence, how much trouble and bother have these 8000 new Hams caused?
Also, where are they to be restricted to on the bands?
I agree that we need more people in the hobby, but at what price?
Posted by
VE7CVQ on 2006-05-21
To K1CJS
"How about limiting techs to the 10, 6, 2, and 1.25 meter and the 70 cm bands with a maximum of 50 watts-same test as now. One year wait until upgrade eligible. I think the microwave bands shouldn't be available to licensees without some experience under their belts. General and Extra licensees have the same privileges as now, with the tests kept at the same level or toughened up some. Some diagramming, both circuitry and block, and some questions requiring written answers to replace the code test if it is dropped. Push the point that techs have an opportunity for longer distance communicating (the ten mtr. band) and talk up ham radio and the new privileges for new licensees."
Since the WRC 2003 ruling, I've been in agreement that Techs should be given some limited HF privileges. But, I would be a bit more liberal than what you suggested. I would grant NCTs Tech Plus privileges. Instead of refarming the Novice sub bands, I would split each Novice sub band in half with the upper half for phone and the lower half for CW and digital. I would keep the Element 1 exam for General and Extra and leave everything else as is.
As for power on bands 10m and higher, I think one is playing with fire using enormous power on VHF and above. You can literally cook yourself if you're not careful. I use the stock 100 watts on HF with my IC-718, the stock 50 watts on 2m/440 with my IC-2340H and the stock 25 watts on 6m with my RCI 5054DX. I don't own an amp. I couldn't do legal limit if I wanted to. I wouldn't want to. I live in an apartment. My antennas are on my balcony. Remember what I said about cooking yourself if you're not careful?
This entire discussion is a waste of time anyway. We all know what the FCC is going to do. They will merely eliminate Element 1 testing across-the-board and leave everything else intact. It is just a matter of when. I believe the change will take place in 2009.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2006-05-21
I THOUGHT THIS HORSE WAS DEAD!
Even if the FCC started GIVING AWAY licenses, I don't think there would be a rush of people. The fact is, using a radio to communicate with others is limited to people who find it interesting - after all it is a hobby.
Everyone I know knows that I am a operator. I've asked all of them at one time or another:
If you were GIVEN a amateur radio license with full privileges on all bands and modes, would you use it?
How many do you think said yes?! Not many! It's because they don't even share the interest in talking to others over the radio!
CB is available to anyone yet how many of your relatives, kids, or co-workers are rushing out to use it?
The question that needs to be asked and addressed is, "How do you implant the desire to operate a radio in people?"
Posted by
KC0RDG on 2006-05-21
First...Present RADIO to the Kids
You know I really believe that if you DESIRE more Children, Teens, Young Men & Women into Ham radio? Then WORK "FIRST" on OFFERING IT TO THEM, Making it "KNOWN TO THEM" in Radio Clubs, that can be started in school levels. I've known of CHESS CLUBS, Computer Clubs, WOOD SHOP, Mechanics, Future Farmers of America, so on and so forth. My point in this discussion is that many Kids have the Idea that HAM Radio is for "GEEKS" let's face it (That is Truth) But what is incerdible about this as in the discussion of children, they don't always COME with an ATTITUDE OF FIRST CHANGE THE RULES, "IF" they are introduced and Taught correctly and develop a FIRE or INTEREST in the subject then they most certainly can RUN WITH IT. Case in point being Computer X-Boxes, Internet Games Etc. I know more children that are more learned on computers, than most adults! Some of this is really "Silly Talk" You dont find Young Folks learning to Drive a Vehicle ranting "FIRST CHANGE THE LAWS... THEN WE WILL DRIVE!" They want to DRIVE, so they ACCEPT and learn to ABIDE BY RULES and LAW. I would hope we always - first TEACH our young minds that ABIDING in MORALS and RESPECTING LAW - is a way of Life, that must be followed to become a successful ADULT!
YES I would still say "BRING BACK NOVICE CLASS" give them 100 Watts, and a little extra HF Phone use in LIMITED - NOVICE areas of the Bands. For those who will learn 5WPM Code, they get even a little more area of those Bands, in Novice CW allocations. This Argument about THE DEATH of HAM RADIO isn't a reason to change HAM RADIO into the MESS, that CB eveolved to be. OFFER it to the CHILDREN, explain it and make it FUN and if they are interested they will "OVER-RUN" all of us. BUT...First admit that NO ONE is out there INTRODUCING RADIO as it could be and possibly should be done. Hats off to the Boy Scouts of America that in some areas, that do this wonderfully! STRANGE THING...with this talk about CODE, of those CHILDREN that desire and learn Ham Radio...They dont seem to have a problem LEARNING 5WPM Code???? What does that say to a few Older Adults, that just desire to gripe, about that? HONESTLY...EMBRACE RADIO, and IF you DESIRE to do it, then WHOLE HEARTEDLY DO IT and what we had "WORKS" As with anything it is said...If it was EASY anyone could do it" and if HAM RADIO was so EASY...We'd have just another CB PROBLEM - on our hands. GOD BLESS AMERICA
Posted by
NE5C on 2006-05-20
one license
I gave a 14 year old a valid study guide
because he expressed an interest in Amateur
Radio. I am going to get him thru the
test. He wants to go on with the hobby why
make it any harder than it is now to become
a ham? CW is great for those who want it.
I passed my extra sending test barley with
a straight key. Never could use a bug or
keyer. Think how silly it would be
to fail an extra only because one could not
pass a sending test. I was young then now
can barley send 10 W.P.M. at 53 yrs old.
WE NEED MORE HAMS AND WE NEED THEM NOW!
Posted by
W8QH on 2006-05-20
code vs. no-code
On 5/15/06, K1CJS posted the following:
"The FCC is going in the right direction now, reducing the number of license classes, there isn't a need to add more.
There should not be another 'easier' entry to the amateur bands, the current technician class license is sufficiently simple as it is. After all, even technician class licensees are permitted to tinker with their radios and the systems used with them so they should have to prove minimal knowledge of radio theory and also of rules and regulations of the amateur service.
The tests are too simple as it is now--memorization of the right answer of a multiple choice test is possible without actually learning the reasons behind the answers. Testing for all license classes should be made more demanding, requiring written out answers instead of multiple choice, or requiring diagramming of equipment like the tests used to.
Like it or not, the amateur radio service is a technically oriented service, it is the only service where a licensee is permitted to perform adjustments on their own equipment or to build their own equipment. If you can't accept that, if you think technical and rule and regulation knowledge should not be required, you don't belong in the amateur service."
On 5/19/06, K1CJS made a 180-degree turn-around and posted the following:
" 'IF you think we need to keep lowering the STANDARDS of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, by which Ham Radio has worked well and Survived, for many years?'
Well, it may have worked well for many years, but it is faultering NOW. The number of active hams are declining. That follows because the number of new hams is not keeping pace with the population increases. Better to change things now to try to increase the numbers of new hams than to struggle to do it later--when our precious bands are being taken from us and sold off."
Which is it, Chris? Do we need to make it super simple to get a ticket and bring in every living and breathing member of the life chain into ham radio, or do we need to raise the bar and make "Testing for all license classes ... more demanding, requiring written out answers instead of multiple choice, or requiring diagramming of equipment like the tests used to.", as you say?
I don't know about you, but I'm for raising the bar. There was another post from another ham that seemed to try to resurrect the ARRL's failed proposal again.
All this talk about ham radio dying and the urgent need to increase our numbers is a myth that was created by NCI. The ARRL grabbed hold of it and is using it to try to increase their membership and put more money in their coffers. If ham radio was dying, the bands wouldn't be teeming with activity during contest weekends.
The truth of the matter is that the FCC will eliminate Element 1 testing across-the-board, and leave the current license structure minus Element 1 intact. The government takes its sweet time with everything. Don't look for the R&O before late 2008. The change will most likely go into effect along with the Novice sub band re-farming, and will likely coincide with the elimination of international SW broadcasting from the 40m amateur band in 2009. I don't have any inside information. It is just my best educated guess.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2006-05-20
since nobody buids anything anymore I see no reason for a test of any kind either. Why prove you know anything about radio when all you've done is parrot answers out of a Q&A manual? But instead of calling the license 'The Amateur Class'...why don't we just call it CB? 'Everyone talks and noone listens'....just like contest day.
Posted by
WD4PXL on 2006-05-20
since nobody buids anything anymore I see no reason for a test of any kind either. Why prove you know anything about radio when all you've done is parrot answers out of a Q&A manual? But instead of calling the license 'The Amateur Class'...why don't we just call it CB? 'Everyone talks and noone listens'....just like contest day.
Posted by
WD4PXL on 2006-05-20
STAY THE SAME!
I don't think it is fair to all of us that studied hard to get where we are at. I just hope that it doesn't turn into CB! I worked hard to get my license so I wouldn't have to listen to garbage! People that have a handicap should be the only exception, not just lazy people that don't want to buckle down and study. I realize that we need more people in the hobby, but 5 words a minute? Isn't that easy enough? CW is a wonderful mode, no one seems to be worried about it becoming absolete! Everyone just wants things handed to them. If you can't pass 5 wpm, stay where your at.
73 de AD9Z
Posted by
AD9Z on 2006-05-20
STAY THE SAME!
I don't think it is fair to all of us that studied hard to get where we are at. I just hope that it doesn't turn into CB! I worked hard to get my license so I wouldn't have to listen to garbage! People that have a handicap should be the only exception, not just lazy people that don't want to buckle down and study. I realize that we need more people in the hobby, but 5 words a minute? Isn't that easy enough? CW is a wonderful mode, no one seems to be worried about it becoming absolete! Everyone just wants things handed to them. If you can't pass 5 wpm, stay where your at.
73 de AD9Z
Posted by
AD9Z on 2006-05-20
STAY THE SAME!
I don't think it is fair to all of us that studied hard to get where we are at. I just hope that it doesn't turn into CB! I worked hard to get my license so I wouldn't have to listen to garbage! People that have a handicap should be the only exception, not just lazy people that don't want to buckle down and study. I realize that we need more people in the hobby, but 5 words a minute? Isn't that easy enough? CW is a wonderful mode, no one seems to be worried about it becoming absolete! Everyone just wants things handed to them. If you can't pass 5 wpm, stay where your at.
73 de AD9Z
Posted by
AD9Z on 2006-05-20
To AG4RQ......
"Which is it, Chris? Do we need to make it super simple to get a ticket and bring in every living and breathing member of the life chain into ham radio, or do we need to raise the bar and make "Testing for all license classes ... more demanding, requiring written out answers instead of multiple choice, or requiring diagramming of equipment like the tests used to.", as you say?"
Believe it or not, the second statement was not meant as a 180 flip. It is possible to raise the bar while making testing tougher, and keep the same three license classes we have.
How about limiting techs to the 10, 6, 2, and 1.25 meter and the 70 cm bands with a maximum of 50 watts-same test as now. One year wait until upgrade eligible. I think the microwave bands shouldn't be available to licensees without some experience under their belts. General and Extra licensees have the same privileges as now, with the tests kept at the same level or toughened up some. Some diagramming, both circuitry and block, and some questions requiring written answers to replace the code test if it is dropped. Push the point that techs have an opportunity for longer distance communicating (the ten mtr. band) and talk up ham radio and the new privileges for new licensees.
Granted, the above scenario is just my opinion, wishful thinking maybe, but it does both raise the bar and breathe a little new life into getting the tech class license. And thanks for telling me I had to clear that up, I realize now that it does look like a turn around.
Posted by
K1CJS on 2006-05-20
Oops, should be.....
Sorry, should have said " It is possible to raise the bar while making testing tougher, and keep the same three license classes we have"..... while attracting more people to the ham ranks.
Posted by
K1CJS on 2006-05-20
Posted by WD4PXL on May 20, 2006:
"since nobody buids anything anymore I see no reason for a test of any kind either. Why prove you know anything about radio when all you've done is parrot answers out of a Q&A manual? ......."
Sarcasm? I hope so. But if not, just because you don't build anything anymore does not mean that everybody is the same. I do tinker and build, always have and always will. Toughening testing won't kill ham radio, eliminating testing certainly will.
Posted by
K1CJS on 2006-05-20
Mail order - coming soon
NO.... but as long as there is $$$ to be made the ARRL/5YI and big money will promote any way to get more buyers. The FCC are not HAMs they just follow the white envelope$. The purpose and integrity of HAM radio has been totally bastardized for profit, salaries, and sales - to hell with HAMdom's noble purpose and virtues. I see history repeating itself soon with CB Free 1970's type mail order licenses. We've seen the dumbing down of HAM licensing in the past 10 yrs - so why not give it all away and start selling the spectrum like FCC did 220. FCC will rationalize the demise of HAM radio for the popularity of Cell phones (remember the FCC deosn't understand technical issues or what happens when cell towers loose power or land lines are cut between them).
HAM = FRS/CB, a day coming soon to you!
N6JSX/8 a real Advanced Class license forever
Posted by
N6JSX on 2006-05-20
Do it!
Just a few days to come and Hungary introduces similar system. We will have three license classes such as Foundation, CEPT Novice and CEPT (the latter corresponds to Extra in the USA). It is in effect from May 26, 2006. All three classes are limited for Morse requirement is no longer mandatory. If someone passes a 6 WPM test he or she will get the right to operate CW.
Foundation class is for under aged 14 and aged above 60 with limited HF and VHF privileges + CW if code test was passed.
Following the heavy debate on the issue worldwide and taking the positive and the negative aspects into consideration the local ham community (included old-timers) has supported to introduce a new system like that. I consider that it is a necessary step to preserve ham radio and the future depends on how we, experienced hams, influence the new generations to achieve a real ham radio reputation.
I say - Do it! - even though loosing mandatory Morse code test is a pain for many of us as well as me.
Posted by
HA2MN on 2006-05-19
Think about it.....
" "IF" you think we need to keep lowering the STANDARDS of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, by which Ham Radio has worked well and Survived, for many years? "
Well, it may have worked well for many years, but it is faultering NOW. The number of active hams are declining. That follows because the number of new hams is not keeping pace with the population increases. Better to change things now to try to increase the numbers of new hams than to struggle to do it later--when our precious bands are being taken from us and sold off.
Posted by
K1CJS on 2006-05-19
Haven't we made it easy enough already????
Posted by
W2MC on 2006-05-19
Haven't we made it easy enough already????
Posted by
W2MC on 2006-05-19
Youth NEEDED
Amateur radio NEEDS young operators to survive.
Check the average age of hams right now.
In another 20 or so years, If something is not done NOW, There will no longer be any ham bands.
(The "old" pfarts who insist that everyone take the exam in front of a steely eyed FCC examiner after walking thru 5 miles of deep snow, Uphill (In both directions) Are not keeping up with the times and are being very selfish)
Whatever can be done to get new operators is a good thing.
I am very much in favor of a limited power and very limited frequencies for entry level new operators. A very small sliver of the popular bands so newbies can taste the magic of HF.
Nowadays with the internet and cellphones, Amateur radio has lost much of its "glow" to young people.
Maybe something similar to the old "Novice" class, But with no code required, A written exam very similar to todays "Tech"
I'd like to see 3 classes of license:
The "New" Novice, Limited power and small segements of all bands, (No code) The "New" General, (Same written exam as today but no code, And Extra. Same as today, Including still requiring code.
Posted by
K9KJM on 2006-05-19
How can you make it any easier !!!!!!!!!!!!!
A Blithering Idiot can memorize a few questions and be on the air with their new license in a few days !!! It is no longer a test..... it is a pitiful excuse to push people into a hobby only to increase numbers. Dumb Move !
Posted by
W5AU on 2006-05-19
Simple Test...Try it and SEE
"IF" you think we need to keep lowering the STANDARDS of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, by which Ham Radio has worked well and Survived, for many years? Then try turning on a CB Radio to channel 19 - With close friends and Family listening as you travel, and give that a whirl.JUST SEE if some family member doesn't say "PLEASE I've heard enough of that Vulgar Mess, Please turn that OFF!" Then my case in point is made. You lower the STANDARDS of something that WAS NOT TRULY, BROKEN...and this is what HAM RADIO "WILL" eventually become. Honestly, something I've never Fogotten that was said to me by an Elderly "HAM MENTOR" and a Friend of mine, that has long since passed on - as I complained about how hard the Studies were? He said "Son...as with ALL THINGS that are worthwhile in Life? - You CAN AND WILL SUCCEED with this, IF you want it bad enough and dedicate yourself to doing it, YOU WILL, SUCCEED! Maybe something that No one cares to mention is that Ham Radio is also a "FRATERNITY of RADIO OPERATORS" that WORKED, to get where we are, with HONOR and MORAL RESPONSIBILITY! Hey I tell ya what...I would vote for CHANGING HAM RADIO...Just as soon or as fast as the FCC - CLEANS UP AND CORRECTS CB RADIO. But...since they have not done this or Enforced the laws regarding this example? Tell me "WHY" would I care to endorse that same "MESS" being INVITED into Ham Radio? Everyone that reads this KNOWS EXACTLY...WHAT I MEAN! THERE IS...and HAVE ALWAYS BEEN - HIGHER STANDARDS OF OPERATIONS, IN HAM RADIO. (PERIOD) - GOD BLESS AMERICA.
Posted by
NE5C on 2006-05-18
Simple Test...Try it and SEE
"IF" you think we need to keep lowering the STANDARDS of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, by which Ham Radio has worked well and Survived, for many years? Then try turning on a CB Radio to channel 19 - With close friends and Family listening as you travel, and give that a whirl.JUST SEE if some family member doesn't say "PLEASE I've heard enough of that Vulgar Mess, Please turn that OFF!" Then my case in point is made. You lower the STANDARDS of something that WAS NOT TRULY, BROKEN...and this is what HAM RADIO "WILL" eventually become. Honestly, something I've never Fogotten that was said to me by an Elderly "HAM MENTOR" and a Friend of mine, that has long since passed on - as I complained about how hard the Studies were? He said "Son...as with ALL THINGS that are worthwhile in Life? - You CAN AND WILL SUCCEED with this, IF you want it bad enough and dedicate yourself to doing it, YOU WILL, SUCCEED! Maybe something that No one cares to mention is that Ham Radio is also a "FRATERNITY of RADIO OPERATORS" that WORKED, to get where we are, with HONOR and MORAL RESPONSIBILITY! Hey I tell ya what...I would vote for CHANGING HAM RADIO...Just as soon or as fast as the FCC - CLEANS UP AND CORRECTS CB RADIO. But...since they have not done this or Enforced the laws regarding this example? Tell me "WHY" would I care to endorse that same "MESS" being INVITED into Ham Radio? Everyone that reads this KNOWS EXACTLY...WHAT I MEAN! THERE IS...and HAVE ALWAYS BEEN - HIGHER STANDARDS OF OPERATIONS, IN HAM RADIO. (PERIOD) - GOD BLESS AMERICA.
Posted by
NE5C on 2006-05-18
Moot arguement dudes !
The FCC, while sitting on the removal of element one, is just going to pull element one. The BPL providers, who own the FCC, don't want MORE hams to complain, so they don't want more of them. This may be the first time in history the FCC wants to depopulate the ham bands.
A bunch of bitter old men, in between sharpening their knives and cleaning their many firearms, take time to post to eham on the code debate.
Yesterday, the skip was in. I heard a lot on 18 meters-I heard a lot on the garbage band between 26-28 mhz. I heard three stations on 10 meters-that was it.
You could give NCT's 10 meters and the fossils on the high side of 80 (age or meters, take your pick) would never hear from them.
The FCC will eventually pull Element One. What I find interesting is the intolerance some spew about code. It's not a test of knowledge-it tests more for musical ability. I can pass the General test cold...my theory and practice of radio is not an issue. Some will see this as whining, but as I have passed Bar exams, I think I know about testing. I don't have musical ability...not a whine, a fact.
I wait for the chance to take the General and Extra exam, after Element One goes away.
What will shock everyone is that other than a bump of NCT's getting on the HF bands (to the detriment of almost dead two meters)there won't be a mass groundswell of new applicants.
Posted by
K2FIX on 2006-05-18
License Classes?
What a concept! Actually learing a skill... No need for that old fashioned stuff by golly!
KC2IJI says: "I can pass the General test cold...my theory and practice of radio is not an issue. Some will see this as whining, but as I have passed Bar exams, I think I know about testing. I don't have musical ability...not a whine, a fact."
WOW! Passed the bar, did you? Memorized the answers? Or did you study and learn about the law?
I've passed a few tests also. Never made me an expert in anything.
Would you respect a new barrister who ovbiously "just passed the bar" but knew nothing about actual practice? Especially if he/she was telling you, an experienced lawyer how you were "doing it all wrong"?
Probably not. Just like I can't respect someone who has no respect for our way of doing things.
Just learn the darn code already!
Jeeze what a bunch of whiners!
73 Gary
Posted by
WG7X on 2006-05-18
New license
My concern with creating a "new entry level" license is that it will undoubtedly be even easier to obtain than current license. I would support a new entry level license without code *IF* the written test was adequately rigorous on rules, regulations, safety, operating practice, and technical issues related to ham radio. I'm not saying that a new entry level ham should be able to design a radio from scratch, but he/she should demonstrate adequate knowledge of technical issues related to the hobby. The written tests for the existing licenses are already too easy and are getting easier by the year. I have little hope that this new license class would have a test which required more than being able to spell your name with less than 3 spelling errors.
"Well, you got 70% right on spelling your name. Congratulations, you passed! You are now a ham. Be sure to come back next month for the General Class test where you only have to know your shoe size to within +/- 3 sizes to pass."
Posted by
KE3HO on 2006-05-18
I Voted "NO"
As Americans, IF we keep on "UN-DOING" the very things that were SET FORTH - BEFORE US, AS "HIGHER STANDARDS?" Then what now do we set forth - as an example especially for our younger Generations? This is about CHANGING LAW, CHANGING RULES to make something "EASIER" for "SOME" who don't desire to INVEST WHAT IT TAKES - TO EARN IT - AS IT HAS BEEN - FOR MANY YEARS! What is NEXT? Let's change College entrance exams because they are too hard for "SOME" - Let's CHANGE CITIZENSHIP LAW...Because "SOME" will march in our streets and flat DEMAND, IF NOT THREATEN US...TO CHANGE - TO SUIT ILLEAGAL ALIENS!!!! And Kids? IF Mommy and Daddy Punish you for misbehaving? Then Just DIVORCE YOUR PARENTS! All of these things are TRUTH that started SMALL...Yet Developed into something "OUT OF CONTROL, IMMORAL, or just a MESS! CB RADIO OR FRS - iS FREE - to ANYONE that does not desire to study, or DESIRE to WORK TO EARN A HAM LICENSE. If that don't work for you...THEN WORK YOUR-SELF - INTO A HIGHER STANDARD OF RADIO. BUT????? It sure would be nice if "SOME OUT THERE" would STOP trying to fix something the rest of us, do not believe - IS BROKEN - OR IS A PROBLEM!
Posted by
NE5C on 2006-05-18
Rebuttal
BEGIN QUOTE
Moot arguement dudes !
The FCC, while sitting on the removal of element one, is just going to pull element one. The BPL providers, who own the FCC, don't want MORE hams to complain, so they don't want more of them. This may be the first time in history the FCC wants to depopulate the ham bands.
END QUOTE
The dropping element 1 is going counter to the "secret agenda" that you believe the FCC has. So why would they drop it? So you don't have a point here.
BEGIN QUOTE
A bunch of bitter old men, in between sharpening their knives and cleaning their many firearms, take time to post to eham on the code debate.
Yesterday, the skip was in. I heard a lot on 18 meters-I heard a lot on the garbage band between 26-28 mhz. I heard three stations on 10 meters-that was it.
You could give NCT's 10 meters and the fossils on the high side of 80 (age or meters, take your pick) would never hear from them.
END QUOTE
Not true. The hams I know are regularly trying all bands regardless of their age. Many people are quite fond of 10m because of the small antenna size.
BEGIN QUOTE
The FCC will eventually pull Element One. What I find interesting is the intolerance some spew about code. It's not a test of knowledge-it tests more for musical ability. I can pass the General test cold...my theory and practice of radio is not an issue. Some will see this as whining, but as I have passed Bar exams, I think I know about testing. I don't have musical ability...not a whine, a fact.
END QUOTE
Learning 5wpm is more like learning to hum or play the kazoo. No musical ability required. Or it is more like learning to talk. Since you did learn to talk, you have the inherent ability to learn code.
BEGIN QUOTE
I wait for the chance to take the General and Extra exam, after Element One goes away.
What will shock everyone is that other than a bump of NCT's getting on the HF bands (to the detriment of almost dead two meters)there won't be a mass groundswell of new applicants.
Posted by KC2IJI on May 18, 2006
END QUOTE
Actually most people I know among the experienced hams are saying the same thing. We'll get a blip in upgrades but no real growth in the number of hams. Therefore there is no reason to drop the code since it will not achieve the stated goal.
Posted by
N8UZE on 2006-05-18
Requirements
The tests - theory and code - are not "filters" to weed out the undesireables or unskilled. They are there to assure a certain level of knowledge. A driver's license does not give you authority to drive in the Indy 500. The idea is to have a pool of trained radio operators. If you hear someone with poor operating practice, it was learned somewhere, ham or CB or whatever. The FCC tests are not set up to keep such out. Yes, the tests have gotten easier. I had 20 wpm and multiple choice questions, while my best friend had to draw the circuits. We are supposed to be able to repair and maintain our own equipment.
On the code issue (sorry to keep that string going) I challenge any of you to send a signal of any sort with no power whatsoever - no AC/DC, battery, generator. With a mirror and the sun, the only signal will be morse, or gibberish.
John
WW0H
Posted by
WW0H on 2006-05-18
KEEP The Code
Yes, KEEP THE CODE and Proudly YES, I am one that started as a NOVICE at 5WPM, up then - on to 13WPM, and was very proud of that accomplishment. We never had this sort of "Bitching" or "WHINING" on Ham Radio until the NO CODE TECH CLASS was Born, and so Now, give em an INCH and they want a MILE, of course that remark only applies to NO CODE TECHS that won't study or advance, but will take the time to "BITCH" -- and for those that say CW is worthless...Try telling that to the Vietnam Vets that used it as a method of tapping out, the only way they could communicate while in prison camps for fighting for OUR RIGHTS...AND SO YOU CAN FREELY "BITCH" - about CODE!!!!
Posted by
NE5C on 2006-05-18
KEEP The Code
Yes, KEEP THE CODE and Proudly YES, I am one that started as a NOVICE at 5WPM, up then - on to 13WPM, and was very proud of that accomplishment. We never had this sort of "Bitching" or "WHINING" on Ham Radio until the NO CODE TECH CLASS was Born, and so Now, give em an INCH and they want a MILE, of course that remark only applies to NO CODE TECHS that won't study or advance, but will take the time to "BITCH" -- and for those that say CW is worthless...Try telling that to the Vietnam Vets that used it as a method of tapping out, the only way they could communicate while in prison camps for fighting for OUR RIGHTS...AND SO YOU CAN FREELY "BITCH" - about CODE!!!!
Posted by
NE5C on 2006-05-18
More youngsters please.
I think an entry level license that would be easy enough for most kids to pass is a good idea. It should have some HF privileges, 100watts max power out and no code exam. I still think we should keep the code exam for the extra class license.
Posted by
AD6WL on 2006-05-18
N5JFJ
Well this is a "PASSIONATE SUBJECT" but... Factual Truth is - WITH YOUNGER FOLKS, It is a matter of "MAKING and DEDICATING TIME - TO STUDY" which admittedly they will always SWEAR they dont have! Fast Food...Fast Times...GIMME NOW, Faster, Easier, CHEAPER! - STRANGE THOUGH...They always CAN find time for so many OTHER SO CALLED, MORE IMPORTANT THINGS - Yet in TRUTH, YOU WILL FIND MANY, MANY, RETIRED PERSONS, starting out FRESH and DEDICATED just as the younger one's do - MAKING TIME TO STUDY, and HAVE GONE ON, one way or another. Maybe it's in PRIORITIES and DEDICATION to the hobby, which truly really matters??? That is also why you find so many "MATURE SENIOR CITIZENS that practice the Hobby of HAM RADIO" Why dont we just "RETURN" to the "old way" we used to do it...(WHEN IT WORKED) before "SOMEONE CHANGED IT"...It was called "THE NOVICE CLASS"...where 2 or more General Class Operators +, could and did ADMINISTER a test to new hams which includes 5WPM Code, that gave them some HF with limited power (200 Watts ONLY) EXCEPT NOW - offer them phone use Between 28.100 to 28.300MHZ (in a limited area of 10 Meters) and offer CW and data use in other small designated areas of HF bands (STRICTLY limited 200 Watts / Novice class sections of cartain Bands)This way OFFERING "MORE" than the old laws administered, and with study, Even my Wife and Children can pass a 5 WPM code test. And you know...Those that are serious "WILL UPGRADE" and those that are NOT? Will stay right there (PERIOD)And as far as NO CODE TECHs are concerned? OK you Got it already, either STUDY...LEARN...MOVE ON to UPGRADE, BE DEDICATED TO WHATEVER YOU DO...and you will find something called... "SUCCESS!" Even though we laugh out here at much of the comments made? Our FORE FATHERS were not IGNORANT, that is why we have a CONSTITUTION (AMEN) BUT...Lord we do have those that would now CHANGE IT also..Don't we??? And by the way? Giving them Phone Between 28.100 to 28.300 would be a lovely EXPERIMENT, just to see, if it is "A MESS OR SUCCESS?" All this GRIPE about a 5WPM Code test and yet I read a million times out here of so many HAMS that say QUOTE; "Later I've found such a pleasure after years in practicing, and using CW" I ask you now, just what does that tell ya?????? God Bless and 73's.
Posted by
NE5C on 2006-05-17
Novice license
My happiest operating time was the six months or so spent as a Novice. All on 15 meter (cw, of course). What great dx back then and what a great way to learn proper operating procedures and CONDUCT.
Posted by
W2RDD on 2006-05-17
Novice licence
Novice licences have been on the go in the UK for a number of years now. I'd be interested to know if anyone can provide statistics on the following:
1. How many novice licencees have gone on to get their intermediate and full licences?
2. How many novice licencees have not renewed their licences, presumably due to lack of interest. (Or has lifetime licencing been introduced here?)
These figures would be useful for assessing the value of this class of licence as a first step into amateur radio vs. a "Low level" licence.
I personally have worked many M3s on the air and on the whole find them to be no better and no worse than any other group of operators on the air. In general the lack of experience is made up for by a high level of enthusiasm.
Certainly the situation in the UK is much better than here in Spain where our legislators are of late dragging their feet on our long-awaited licence revamp.
73 de Duncan EA5ON / GM7CXM
Posted by
GM7CXM on 2006-05-17
I miss the U.S. Novice
I wish we could bring the old-fashioned Novice ticket back.
Last night I answered a KC9 calling CQ on CQ around 14.035, which is too low in the band for rank beginners when the band's open. But anyway, I called him at 13 wpm and got ?? I called him again at 7 wpm and he got a bit of my call, but not much.
I slowed down to 5 wpm and we exchanged a fraction of a QSO, with me copying him just fine (599, solid, with some mistakes -- no big deal) and him copying me a tiny bit. I don't think he ever got my name or QTH, although I sent those 5-6 times each, very slowly.
This is what the Novice was great for! It's so disappointing to hear higher class licensees learning what to do in the crowded portion of a DX band. This fellow had no protocol whatever, and called CQ by sending his callsign 3 times, then "CQ," then stopping. No "DE," no "K," no nothing. I guessed he was calling CQ after listening to him do that a few times.
The Novice ticket was such a perfect way to learn, and now it's gone, probably forever.
<Sigh>
WB2WIK/6
Posted by
WB2WIK on 2006-05-17
Protocol
Sadly, some of todays amateurs refuse to avail themselves of printed sources of information and seem to lack the will to search for information. When I was a new ham, the pamplet "Operating An Amateur Station" was the ready source of information on proper protocol on how to make qso's on both phone and cw. If copies of such material were given to every new ham, there would still be those who would not open the cover.
Every new ham should, at a minimum, have a copy of "The Radio Amateur's Operating Manual", published by the ARRL. The Radio Amateur's Handbook and Antenna Book would be highly recommended as well.
Posted by
WA4DOU on 2006-05-17
Entry level license
Perhaps the time has come to drop all standards. Eliminate the test AND the code. Turn the amateur service into a 1,500 watt CB service. Have the government subsidize equipment.
10-4 good buddy............beep!
Posted by
W9WHE-II on 2006-05-17
what amatuer radio test standards should be
First there should be only two licence classes, basic and advanced, second the basic class test should include the entire question pool of the Extra, General and Technician classes and also include a practical portion where the aplicant should be supplied with a breadboard and a box of componets and be required to build a simple amplifier circuit and a simple 12V power supply circuit from memory, this practical portion will be half of their final score. The basic class licence will give the operator privliges on all VHF and above bands and some HF privlidges like 60M or 10M or both. To upgrade to advanced to get the rest of HF bands the aplicant would only have to complete a 15WPM CW exam. In that way the CW requierment is removed to access at least some of the HF spectrum but still give the licencee an incentive to upgrade and the large number of questions and the practical test will prevent applicants from just memorizing question pools and making them prove they have a basic understanding of electronic theory.
Posted by
AF5II on 2006-05-17
Bring back the novice
We need to bring back the novice ticket. Code or no code we need an entry level ticket for HF so the newcomers can get their feet wet. We had a good novice ticket once...it went away. Simply handing someone a ticket to operate on the HF bands with high power is a recipe for disaster. But I suppose the love of money will win out like it always does and the ARRL and the equipment manufactures will get their wish to make a ham ticket something you get in a box of Cheerios. The FCC itself is just as much to blame because they dont want to be bothered with ham radio anymore...theres no money in it for them.
Posted by
KE4ZHN on 2006-05-17
If the old way isn't working, why not try something new.
Let's face it, the license structure as it is isn't making prospective hams flock to the hobby. Granted, quality among new folks is what counts, not quantity, but some might argue that a little new blood wouldn't hurt the hobby. The rest of us aren't getting any younger. If you want new blood, you have to deal with the population you have and not the one you want. Let's come up with an equitable license structure that attracts intelligent newcomers to the hobby.
Maybe it's time we all let go of our old predispositions and tried to think of new solutions and not the old throwbacks that got us here.
Posted by
KC0TUD on 2006-05-17
I Remember....
I remember when CB was actually taken very seriously. I also remember when an official FCC license application was included in the box with a new radio. Simply fill it out and send it in. We now know the outcome of that practice.
Hold the line. We cannot afford to 'dumb down' the standards any further.
73, Dan
Posted by
N1GXC on 2006-05-16
Enforce?
Just how do you plan to enforce power limits today when the average transceiver power output is 100 watts? Although there is generally a means to reduce that power out, do you really think a licensee of the class you're talking about will really abide by such a power restriction?
Posted by
WA4DOU on 2006-05-16
CW - the gateway to homebrewing
Learning CW is the gateway to learning how to
build your own equipment. My first QSO as an
amateur (as a Novice in 1976) was made on a
simple transmitter I built from an old ARRL
Handbook design. How many Technicians today
have the opportunity to complete their first
QSO with a transmitter they built
themselves?
Contrary to what some assert about the
primary purpose of Amateur Radio being
emergency communications, I've always felt
that it is principally a scientific hobby,
similar in some respects to Amateur
Astronomy. And CW has a real role in that,
in enabling new licensees to roll their
own stuff.
Posted by
W5ESE on 2006-05-16
"As usual our friend's at the Arrl just will not accept No as a answer and keep throwing any idea or practice they hear about at us hoping one will stick."
Have you been in a cave for a while? There are more parties and individuals than just the ARRL that are requesting a no-code license. And the ARRL is going by what a majority of their members have asked for.
Posted by
KD4AC on 2006-05-16
I support the Foundation ticket for the UK and VK.
Course, I don't know what the requirements are for a Foundation ticket; don't know what the limits are for a Foundation ticket either.
And, since our FCC decides our requirements and limitations, approving of a Foundation ticket for the USA is pointless.
Posted by
RobertKoernerExAE7G on 2006-05-16
KF5KWO wrote: " - No Morse testing requirement, just like there's no PSK31 test, or phone test ("Can you speak a language?"), or SSTV test, or FM test, or (insert mode here) test..."
But that is where you are wrong. There is a phone test. If you show up at the licensing session and only speak jibberish to the examiners, they won't know what you want and you won't pass the exam (and you failed the phone sending test). Or if you suffer from Wernicke's aphasia, where you cannot comprehend speech, you won't understand the examiners and will fail the exam (and you failed the phone receiving test). If you cannot read written text, you probably can't take the written test, and have failed the PSK31 or digital mode receiving test, since receiving those modes is just reading off a screen. So, plenty of other modes are tested for.
73s John W5TD
Posted by
FORMER_W5TD_JOHN on 2006-05-16
New Ham Test
How about a no-code/no-test all-privileges ham license? The prospective ham would be led into a fully-outfitted and fully-stocked electronics laboratory. Eight hours would be given for the applicant to build a working transmitter and receiver, or a transceiver with a resonant dipole and transmission line (tuners would be allowed - homebrew only). Upon completion of the project, the applicant would be graded on what was built. The applicant would then make 3 contacts in front of the examiner.
In this way, without putting pen to paper, the applicant would be tested on electronics and radio theory, antenna and feedline theory, knowledge of propagation, knowledge of rules and regs, and operating procedure. If the applicant was able to build an SSB rig, no knowledge of Morse would be necessary. It goes without saying that Morse would be necessary for the 3 contacts if a CW rig was built.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2006-05-16
I so don't care, YAWN.
Posted by
KC9CEW on 2006-05-16
Oh no.....not again
"CW - the gateway to homebrewing"
OH, COME OFF IT! Why is every blasted article about licensing on this site turned into a g-damn code debate? A statement like the one above makes as much sense as this one: 'Understanding and explaining the internal combustion engine is the gateway to learning to drive a car." It makes as much sense as the one above....and is about as true. While it is nice to know how a car engine works, it is not necessary to know--just as it is not necessary to know code in order to design and build a rig.
Posted by
K1CJS on 2006-05-16
new ham test
AG4RQ wrote"How about a no-code/no-test all-privileges
ham license? The prospective ham would be led into a
fully-outfitted and fully-stocked electronics laboratory.
Eight hours would be given for the applicant to build a
working transmitter and receiver, or a transceiver with a
resonant dipole and transmission line (tuners would be
allowed - homebrew only). Upon completion of the
project, the applicant would be graded on what was built.
The applicant would then make 3 contacts in front of the
examiner."
In addition, to work satellite, you must design and launch
a working amateur satellite. It must remain in orbit for at
least 1 year and cannot de-orbit onto ARRL headquarters
or the FCC. Also, it cannot be a discarded
Russian spacesuit-been there, done that.
73
Phil
Posted by
KD7IXE on 2006-05-16
I thought we already had a no-code entry-level license class with band restrictions...
Dan KE7HLR
No-code Tech, but working to better myself
Posted by
KE7HLR on 2006-05-16
CW and Cars
"Understanding and explaining the internal combustion engine is the gateway to learning to drive a car."
No, but the more you know about cars, the better care you will take of your car on and off the road, and the longer it will last. Also, it will be in better mechanical condition than the car that belongs to the driver who knows nothing about cars. The better your car's mechanical condition, the safer and more reliable it is, resulting in less accidents. The more you know about cars, the more you know about your car's performance and your car's response. This results in less margin for error and less accidents.
In the same way, knowledge of CW enables you to begin to build homebrew radio equipment. It is far easier to build a CW rig than it is to build an SSB rig. You must learn to crawl before you learn to walk. Successfully building simple CW equipment prepares you for the more complicated SSB homebrewing that comes later.
So, you can see how important it is to know CW. It is as important for a ham to know CW as it is for a driver to know how to tear a car apart and put it back together. Neither are necessary, but CW gives you a better appreciation for radio, just as mechanical knowledge gives you a better appreciation for your automobile.
I fully agree with W5ESE's statement.
Posted by
AG4RQ on 2006-05-16
Don't Give Away CW
Regardless of the outcome of what has to be done to obtain a license, maintain the frequencies set aside for CW so those that wish to use it can do so free and clear of other modes. I haven't got my license yet but plan to before the CW requirement goes away, if that is what is going to happen. I hope the radio theory is not sacrificed next. If that happens amateur radio will no longer have any way to filter out those that are abusing it today. It will only get worse. We have to maintain some knowledge of the principles of radio to ensure its participants don't ruin it. No body wants it to turn into another CB fiasco....Do we?
Posted by
10CVALLEYVOL on 2006-05-16
Here we go again - Part II
My neighbor has a new huge RV mobile home. He probably paid well over $300K for it (yes, it’s that nice!). So I got to thinking, why can’t I have one, too?
I’m worth it, aren’t I?
I want it!
Give it to me!
Give it to me, NOW!
Gimmie!
Gimmie!
Gimmie!
WWhhaaaa.
What, me pay for it? Work? I’ll miss too much “important stuff” in my life if I have to take on 2 or 3 new jobs. Where does it say that “I” have to put forth the effort achieve things? It’s government’s job to provide me with the things I want. Free. And while your at it, I want code-free HF, too. It’s too hard and time consuming to learn an obsolete skill nobody uses. I can’t (won’t) do it.
Sound familiar?
Posted by
N9ESH on 2006-05-16
Don't Give Away CW
Regardless of the outcome of what has to be done to obtain a license, maintain the frequencies set aside for CW so those that wish to use it can do so free and clear of other modes. I haven't got my license yet but plan to before the CW requirement goes away, if that is what is going to happen. I hope the radio theory is not sacrificed next. If that happens amateur radio will no longer have any way to filter out those that are abusing it today. It will only get worse. We have to maintain some knowledge of the principles of radio to ensure its participants don't ruin it. No body wants it to turn into another CB fiasco....Do we?
Posted by
10CVALLEYVOL on 2006-05-16
Face it. We've lost the battle of the phone sub-bands to the chaos of no code licensing. I've retreated to the CW sub-bands, and those I will guard agressively. We cannot lose them!
K3GM (the old way, the hard way)
Posted by
K3GM on 2006-05-16
Dont Do IT!
The M3 licence here in the UK (novice) has in truth brought many new hams in to the hobby. Some of these hams are great and operate very well, however some are very poor operators. Im afraid that that yes there are probably more good M3's than bad - however the bad ones are really bad and some are a disgrace. These bad ones like I say are the exception - but they make you think that the entry should be more difficult, with the aim of letting through only those with a real desire to be a ham.
Regarding different levels - I started as an old style novice (2wljam), then passed the RAE and became (gw1zhk) and finally passed the morse to become (mw0kik). I think the bands should be open to all - code or no code - the limitations should be on power and there should be tiers which are granted by passing technical exams, encouraging us to learn!
Are personal views
73
Leigh
Posted by
MW0KIK on 2006-05-15
There are two things important in hamradio:
* to know what you are doing,
* how to behave on the bands.
That does not include the compulsory ability to be proficient in one single - now antiquated - mode of communication and not in the other - how many? - modes that are available these days.
I think it is far more important to know and understand how connect the sound card output of your computer properly to your radio - to avoid intermodulation - than what da dih da means....
BTW over 50 % of my QSO's are in CW.... :)
Posted by
VK2GWK on 2006-05-15
N5JFJ
"Here we go again" is absolutely a TRUE quote mentioned here, to Sum all of it up! We've LOWERED OUR STANDARDS already in so many ways! Sadly... these days we accept Students that REBEL against the Teachers, and cannot honestly Read, write, or understand MATH... Yet, they still GRADUATE! SOME COME across our borders, and won't take an OATH to love our Country or ABIDE by ALL OUR LAW taking to our streets, to THREATEN US and DEMAND CITIZENSHIP as they REFUSE to SPEAK OUR LANGUAGE! There are FEWER folks that "DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD" THAN THOSE - THAT DO BELIEVE...Yet, they've removed PRAYER, from public schools! All my life I'd heard that IGNORANCE OF THE LAW...IS NO EXCUSE, and yet today, there are those that PLEAD IGNORANCE as a common DEFENSE after they've broken the Law! My Point simply, is that as long as WE KEEP ON LOWERING OUR STANDARDS, then the end result will be what we all KNOW IS TRUE - as in the example of "CB RADIO" an UNCONTROLLED, OUT OF BAND, PROFANE MESS that truly cannot be relied upon, in a Life or Death EMERGENCY and yet the FCC cannot or won't "FIX IT!" Like many Hams I came from CB, studied hard, and INVESTED MY TIME, IN WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS WERE, TO EARN my license. You cannot hand a Drivers license to just anyone and say "DRIVE" nor a scalpal to another, and say "BE A HEART SURGEON!" I would say as one fellow suggested earlier..."IF" you are not willing to INVEST THE TIME AND EFFORT into what it takes to do this "RIGHT?" THEN DON'T DO IT! BUT????? Lowering our STANDARDS with most anything (SADLY) is NOT the answer! Maybe as Arnold would say "STOP CRYING OR ACTING LIKE A SISSY"...Suck it up and just "DO IT" and then... "BE PROUD!"
Posted by
NE5C on 2006-05-15
N5JFJ
"Here we go again" is absolutely a TRUE quote mentioned here, to Sum all of it up! We've LOWERED OUR STANDARDS already in so many ways! Sadly... these days we accept Students that REBEL against the Teachers, and cannot honestly Read, write, or understand MATH... Yet, they still GRADUATE! SOME COME across our borders, and won't take an OATH to love our Country or ABIDE by ALL OUR LAW taking to our streets, to THREATEN US and DEMAND CITIZENSHIP as they REFUSE to SPEAK OUR LANGUAGE! There are FEWER folks that "DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD" THAN THOSE - THAT DO BELIEVE...Yet, they've removed PRAYER, from public schools! All my life I'd heard that IGNORANCE OF THE LAW...IS NO EXCUSE, and yet today, there are those that PLEAD IGNORANCE as a common DEFENSE after they've broken the Law! My Point simply, is that as long as WE KEEP ON LOWERING OUR STANDARDS, then the end result will be what we all KNOW IS TRUE - as in the example of "CB RADIO" an UNCONTROLLED, OUT OF BAND, PROFANE MESS that truly cannot be relied upon, in a Life or Death EMERGENCY and yet the FCC cannot or won't "FIX IT!" Like many Hams I came from CB, studied hard, and INVESTED MY TIME, IN WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS WERE, TO EARN my license. You cannot hand a Drivers license to just anyone and say "DRIVE" nor a scalpal to another, and say "BE A HEART SURGEON!" I would say as one fellow suggested earlier..."IF" you are not willing to INVEST THE TIME AND EFFORT into what it takes to do this "RIGHT?" THEN DON'T DO IT! BUT????? Lowering our STANDARDS with most anything (SADLY) is NOT the answer! Maybe as Arnold would say "STOP CRYING OR ACTING LIKE A SISSY"...Suck it up and just "DO IT" and then... "BE PROUD!"
Posted by
NE5C on 2006-05-15
Arrl just won't give up !!
As usual our friend's at the Arrl just will not accept No as a answer and keep throwing any idea or practice they hear about at us hoping one will stick. This is exactly how Liberal's work in that they keep getting there ideas in the new's untill common sense is forgotten and hysteria rule's. I can guarantee whether this idea flies or is left back in the old ideas bin there will come another and another untill they find the one that stick's. Look at how long they worked at getting the idea of lowering the code and before that the testing, alas all the end is near.....
Posted by
FORMER_K0PD on 2006-05-15
Duh??
Why would anyone vote for something without knowing EXACTLY what they are voting for??
I see no explaination of what this "Foundation" license would include, either for examination or privledges.
As I do not live, or operate, in either the UK or Australia, I have no knowledge of their licensing structures. What they do is their business.
However, if you are asking for a vote on something, at least tell us WHAT we are voting for, or against.
Posted by
K7UNZ on 2006-05-15
Why Worrie About IT
Why worrie what the FCC or ARRL plans to do,The Amercian People want take a stand and the Ham's want take a stand.So why worrie all there after is the all mighty $$$ that what counts anymore and nothing else.
Posted by
N2BR on 2006-05-15
Liberal whining
WAAAAAAAAAAAA......
I don't want to learn code.
WAAAAAAAAAAAA.....
Give me HF without learning code.
WAAAAAAAAAAAA....
Give me a FREE HF radio, tower and beam.
Posted by
W9WHE-II on 2006-05-15
Who cares, no future?
We have already lost our dazzle factor with the youngbloods. Without them, lots of retirement home club stations.
Nothing you could give away will get us within 20 years of technology & the kids know it, see it immediately & tell you "so what?"
If you are under 45, you are an anomoly in 2006!
Posted by
K4RAF on 2006-05-15
Encourage newcomers
Current full band access operators have no greater threat than extinction by depopulation. Let that fact sink in.
Attract new operators of all ages. If you want to get, you have to give. Some bit of access on each band, enough to warant buying a used HF rig, enough to try making antennas, enough to try Morse Code, SSB, and other modes, this gives newcomers some real hands on opportunities, not just questions and answers in a book. Licensing and rules and regs will keep things going in spite of all the naysayers and doom and gloom types.
So, all you dogs in the mangers out there, beware! Adapt or perish! Be greater than you seem, if you really love amateur radio more than yourselves.
Posted by
AI2IA on 2006-05-15
Funny!
Like the hurdle of learning the code kept K1MAN, WA4D, KV4FZ, and WB2OTK off the air. Like I have always said, it's not the class of license, it's the class of people. Either live in the answer or live in the problem. It's easy, if you don't want to hear noise from the trailer park, stay out of the trailer park...you have choices. Peace!
Posted by
K1OU on 2006-05-15
walmart to sell them
now thats a plan let wallmart sell the Licence.
that way when not enough are sold the be placed in the discount isle for 25 cents. that will bring the bargin hunters to the band's.
geeeesh folks why must we beat this dead horse so often? those whom favor code think the other side is a bunch a crying arse holes. and thos who oppose the code feel that it is a stupid requirment today.
personally i hated code till i realized how much 6 meter stuff i was missing. then i learnded code. it wasnt force3d upon me and being a tech still wasnt required either.
but you know what. i just one day decied i wanted to hear what i was missing and started learning it. now i find it to be quite fun.
sadly however i think requiring a test for morse code will allways hamper progress in today's hobby. folks today want instant gratifaction. the dont want take time and study some thing the deem worthless. and them like my self will some day see that it isn't a burdon but rather a pleasant form of comuincation to use.
but i really think we need to let the new folks get there feet wet in the hobby. let them taste some hf. and let them decide for them selves. besides if you dont like what your hearing you can allways go to the cw band section and ignore them.
just my thought's Jeff n3jbh
Posted by
N3JBH on 2006-05-15
Hell, no.....
The FCC is going in the right direction now, reducing the number of license classes, there isn't a need to add more.
There should not be another 'easier' entry to the amateur bands, the current technician class license is sufficiently simple as it is. After all, even technician class licensees are permitted to tinker with their radios and the systems used with them so they should have to prove minimal knowledge of radio theory and also of rules and regulations of the amateur service.
The tests are too simple as it is now--memorization of the right answer of a multiple choice test is possible without actually learning the reasons behind the answers. Testing for all license classes should be made more demanding, requiring written out answers instead of multiple choice, or requiring diagramming of equipment like the tests used to.
Like it or not, the amateur radio service is a technically oriented service, it is the only service where a licensee is permitted to perform adjustments on their own equipment or to build their own equipment. If you can't accept that, if you think technical and rule and regulation knowledge should not be required, you don't belong in the amateur service.
Posted by
K1CJS on 2006-05-15
Old Code, New Technology??
I can never understand how learning the code makes you a better operator. I have been a Ham for about 33 years. I had to sit my exams in front of an FCC engineer in his office. I never used code more than 2 hours after that sitting. The code as a requirement for a Ham ticket had nothing to do with the hobby itself other than an international treaty requiring Hams to be able to communicate with ships at sea when they were in trouble.
As far as requiring code for a license relating to behavior on the air, I see that most operating violations are committed by Hams who have had their tickets for years.
I think that due to the new digital modes of operation all hams should have to be able to type 30 words per minute error free so they can be proficient with these new technologies.
73's
Mark
Posted by
VK4DGG on 2006-05-15
two licenses
- A 'Foundation' license and a 'General' license.
- No Morse testing requirement, just like there's no PSK31 test, or phone test ("Can you speak a language?"), or SSTV test, or FM test, or (insert mode here) test...
- Frequency privleges divided up by license.
Just trying to keep it simple.
Posted by
KF5KWO on 2006-05-15
Yes!
Yes, we need a very easy entrance license for new hams with decent HF privileges and low power limits and no code exam.
Posted by
OLDFART13 on 2006-05-15
Yes...
but, keep the code exam for General and Extra.
Posted by
OLDFART13 on 2006-05-15
One License
I voted "no" on this one.
We really should have one license: The Amateur Class.
The license form would be included inside the box of each new radio sold. Simply fill out the form, enclose the appropriate fee and mail to the FCC. Your call letters and license arrive back to you in 2-4 weeks.
Forget about all this incentive, entry-level, novice, general, extra jazz.
This would get some new hams on the air, fill the halls of hamfesting and generate some interest in radio before we're all dead and the bands are empty. Amen.
Posted by
WPE9JRL on 2006-05-14
One License
I voted "no" on this one.
We really should have one license: The Amateur Class.
The license form would be included inside the box of each new radio sold. Simply fill out the form, enclose the appropriate fee and mail to the FCC. Your call letters and license arrive back to you in 2-4 weeks.
Forget about all this incentive, entry-level, novice, general, extra jazz.
This would get some new hams on the air, fill the halls of hamfesting and generate some interest in radio before we're all dead and the bands are empty. Amen.
Posted by
WPE9JRL on 2006-05-14
Here we go again.
Been there - done that. What’s the difference between this and the no-code Technician license?
Want a no-code license? Get a GMRS license and leave Ham radio to the people who take radio seriously. Oh, you say GMRS is trashed by intruders? Well, what do you expect? If you can’t handle 5 wpm, I feel sorry for you.
Posted by
N9ESH on 2006-05-14
Here we go again.
Been there - done that. What’s the difference between this and the no-code Technician license?
Want a no-code license? Get a GMRS license and leave Ham radio to the people who take radio seriously. Oh, you say GMRS is trashed by intruders? Well, what do you expect? If you can’t handle 5 wpm, I feel sorry for you.
Posted by
N9ESH on 2006-05-14
I Want My MTV
At one time this was an important issue to me but now I just want my MTV. I got my 13 wpm and now it is time to just move on!
Posted by
W8VOM on 2006-05-14
more of it-
How much more degrading is it going to get?
Posted by
N0AH on 2006-05-14
"Save Ham Radio"
We really should have one license: The Amateur Class.
The license form would be included inside the box of each new radio sold. Simply fill out the form, enclose the appropriate fee and mail to the FCC. Your call letters and license arrive back to you in 2-4 weeks.
Forget about all this incentive, entry-level, novice, general, extra jazz.
This would get some new hams on the air, fill the halls of hamfesting and generate some interest in radio before we're all dead and the bands are empty. Amen.
Posted by WPE9JRL on May 14, 2006
However I must say there should be at least a General exam of completion. I am studying for my General exam but I am not happy about learning code.
Ham radio must introduce a new generation of interest. Big corporations like Nextel are waiting to buy our airwaves.
Posted by
KI6ADA on 2006-05-14