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Survey Question
As a licensed Amateur Radio Operator, how do you feel about the possible shutdown of NIST Radio Stations WWV, WWVH and WWVB?
  Posted: Sep 06, 2018   (891 votes, 54 comments) by AA7LX

  I'll miss them; I listen to WWV and WWVH all the time.
  My clocks are set by WWVB!
  It is old technology.
  Let the Government save over 6 million dollars !
  I don't care what the Government does.
  What Stations are those?
    (891 votes, 54 comments)

Survey Results
I'll miss them; I listen to WWV and WWVH all the time. 45% (401)
My clocks are set by WWVB! 34% (303)
It is old technology. 7% (62)
Let the Government save over 6 million dollars ! 7% (60)
I don't care what the Government does. 1% (8)
What Stations are those? 2% (17)
Other 4% (40)

Survey Comments
A Parts Barter Forum
You're working on a project and are missing
some X parts that I happen to have some of,
left over from this or that. I'm working on
a project, too but am missing some Y parts
and you find some of them in your junk box.
We each post what we need and what we'd trade
to get some of them. We'd all leave contact
info and do our bartering off-forum. The
forum would just be for the tippers and asks.
Unless X:Y are way out of proportion in size,
weight, rarity or value, we'd each cover the
outgoing postage. Just an idea... I see
really cool-looking homebrewed stuff online,
and would like to try building one myself but
haven't any of this toroid, that transistor
or the other IC. Too much to ask?

Posted by KA8SYX on October 17, 2018

If it costs Unca Donald $6 million, farm its
operation out to a private contractor and it
would probably cost only $2 million.

Posted by K3CXG on October 16, 2018

I use WWV for radio alignment in a simple way for short wave. I also listen for propagation. 6 million is but a drop in the bucket.

Posted by KB8DNS on October 16, 2018

Don't understand why it costs so much,( or
maybe I do...) put it out on bids... someone
could probably do it for a third the current
cost. It is useful for me. Some clocks use
it inside building, where there is no GPS
signal. Check your radio freq VFO and can
check propagation.

Posted by KK4SHF on October 7, 2018

Keep it running
WWVB - works indoors. GPS doesn't always work

Old Technology - So is ham radio. So are cars.

Curious where this "$6,000,000 per year" figure
comes from. Probably actually costs more like $2M if
it weren't the government doing it.

Posted by K5TED on October 7, 2018

I have a very strong feeling that IF WWV actually goes, that they will learn the HARD way what useful purposes it actually DOES serve!!!

Posted by WD8OQX on October 7, 2018

I voted "It's an old technology", but the comments
provide some convincing arguments for keeping it. The
most salient ones were 1. It is a good lower tech backup
2. It is a victim of budget cuts from an anti-science, anti-
truth administration - this latter argument meaning that
the proposal to close wwv is not based on well
considered facts.

Posted by N3ZY on October 5, 2018

Amateur Astronomers use the time signals too....

Posted by K1AH on October 4, 2018

Old joke about ma bell's timekeeping
Reminds me of an old joke wherein the local
operator's clock on the wall, used by telephone
operators to tell the time to callers, being set
to the municipal clock on the tower but the clock
maintenance worker was setting that clock to the
operator's report to him about the time.

Posted by WA3KVN on October 2, 2018

Stop telling me what I can talk about and
what I can't. I know many would like to
control our freedom of speech, but it is
guaranteed by the constitution. A document
that is just as valid today and it was in
I wish they would leave WWV on the air!

Posted by W5NM on October 2, 2018

Hope they keep them operational and on the air.

Posted by N3KO on October 2, 2018

"...But amateur radio operators should not talk politics..."

Tell THAT to the crowd on the 75- and 20-meter phone
bands, who regularly violate the etched-in-stone rule against
broaching ANYTHING on-the-air related to ", religion,
or politics"...! :o)

Posted by VE3CUI on October 1, 2018

Politics on eham
Now now everyone.

I do not know if some of the newer hams know the unspoken rule, but amateur radio operators should not talk politics.

The partisan divide is getting so large, that amateur radio should be the "great escape"

I know that there are divides of pro-ARRL versus ARRL haters. Code versus no-code, radio sport versus contest haters. Civil versus uncivil on-air behavior.

My two cents.


Posted by KB6QXM on October 1, 2018

They to keep WWV and WWVH as backup to GPS

Posted by W2XAB on September 30, 2018

Just Another Example...
Oh well, and ho-hum...

Just another example of the U.S.A. being small-minded &
capitulating on its leadership role in yet another field, and
deferring whatever prestige / noteworthiness it once
enjoyed to another entity / foreign power.

It was things like WWV that imparted a noble spirit of
America's greatness in "showing the way" for the rest of
the world to follow --- but I guess the U.S. simply got
tired of being "first" on a global scale, & is happier now
just to settle into 2nd (or lower) place, all in the name of
what's REALLY driving things both here & abroad anymore,
i.e. the almighty coin...

Posted by VE3CUI on September 30, 2018

Bad timing for the USA to relinquish the radio waves in
the Pacific while China has plans to increase its
influence. Oh and China also has a 10 MHz time signal.
It is a reflection on our current administration to be so
acquiescent and narrow.

Posted by W1XYZ on September 28, 2018

Funding suggestion
Do what the politicians have been doing for
years, steal (sorry, re-appropriate) the
funds from OUR Social Security and leave a
note saying IOU.

See, then they will never have to pay it back
and people will eventually forget it was

Posted by K0CBA on September 27, 2018

What is the alternative?
If the NIST shuts down the radio stations, then what is the alternative for frequency and time standards?

I think that there is many other places that the government can cut fat other than these stations.

Has a risk analysis been completed on shutting down these stations?

Posted by KB6QXM on September 26, 2018

Good propagation beacons
...but if they're gone, we'll be able to hear BPM and RWM better. Too bad JJY isn't still on the air...I remember hearing it repeating "J-J-Y...J-J-Y..."

Posted by N3EG on September 24, 2018

WOW!! I am not sure if this is what is meant by
that MAGA thing...but then again some people
do not believe in Science and do not care.

Posted by NA4RA on September 24, 2018

Fight for WWV !!
I am in Canada so can't "write my
congressman" to get this stupidity reversed.
But I sure hope a whole BUNCH of American
hams are doing so right now!

I believe the answers to this survey all
presume the outcome is a foregone conclusion.
But there should have been another choice or
two such as "I want to stop this stupidity!
Let's kick some butt!!"

Posted by VE6EI on September 24, 2018

Check CHU
Canada's CHU stations will continue although who knows how
long. Give them a try!

Posted by VE1YY on September 24, 2018

NIST budget cut
The proposal is a small part of a general
reduction of funding for the NIST. If you
look at the entire proposal you will see that
the administration wants to eliminate some of
the funding going toward climate change
research. WWV and WWVH will be collateral

Posted by W9DZ on September 21, 2018

I'll miss them. I use them to set the clock in my shack and on my SW receiver before every contest.

Posted by AE6YB on September 20, 2018

WWV etc.:
I am sure there will be feedback when we go
back to sun dials and/or sticks for local
time. I think someone is out to lunch if
those cutbacks are done with radio time

Posted by K0IC on September 20, 2018

One significant solar flare and the entire GPS
constellation could be gone. It always stuns me how
the most enthusiastic and vocal users of the products of
our technological society are completely unaware of how
fragile it all is.

Posted by K2PI on September 19, 2018

This was expected
You vote for a bunch of people who don't
want to pay for anything and then get
upset when they cut services.

You're to blame as much as them.

I guess one way of "making America great"
is by cutting services like
this...afterall....the rest of the world
benefits from it and they can't have that
with an "American First" attitude.

Why you people are upset is beyond me.
They way I see should be glad
they're cutting the 6 mil from the budget.

Posted by NQ4T on September 18, 2018

WWVB Forever!
WWVB is well utilized time synchronization infrastructure. Whoever is proposing this budget change surely knows this will negatively impact a huge number of users (millions?). How many people have Casio, Citizen, Seiko, etc. watches that are set by WWVB? WWVB set wall clocks are common. Not to mention many timepieces for the visually impaired use WWVB. WWVB receivers continue to be far more power efficient than GPS receivers in portable applications.

There just needs to be one powerful solar storm pointing our way to render all the GNSS constellations inoperable. Obviously this would have a far more profound impact than just time keeping, but maintaining an HF time source cannot be a bad idea.

I regularly tune to WWV to gauge propagation.

Posted by VE7JMR on September 18, 2018

I'll miss both
I use the HF stations, and several of my clocks are kept in sync with WWVB. I've also listened to the 60.Hkz station on my Kenwood TS-590S, and decoded the signal with the clock program from (aka MULTIPSK web site).

Posted by AJ4LN on September 18, 2018

A great propagation indicator and good enough for me frequency standard.

Posted by K5BM on September 17, 2018

WWV and WWVB are used by clocks in the western
hemisphere to sync to exact timing. Many commercial clocks
sync with them. As a broadcaster, all our studio clocks at 40
radio stations are tied to these time standards. Since they are
tied to multiple cesium standards, they are the most precise
source of frequency and time standards.

Posted by W0LD on September 17, 2018

Have not used this service for like 20 years now. Modern instruments have long replaced the need for such a service. If it falls silent, I would never know the difference.

Posted by W9FIB on September 15, 2018

The Amateur Code
§1 - The amateur is considerate. Doh!
He never knowingly uses the air in such a
way as to lessen the pleasure of others

§2 - The amateur is loyal. To himself!
He offers his loyalty, encouragement and
support to his fellow radio amateurs, his
local club and his national association,
through which amateur radio is represented

§3 - The amateur is progressive. NOT
He keeps his station abreast of science. It
is well-built and efficient. His operating
practice is above reproach

§4 - The amateur is friendly. Not on EHAM
Slow and patient sending when requested,
friendly advice and counsel to the
beginner, kindly assistance, cooperation
and consideration for the interests of
others; these are the marks of the amateur

§5 - The amateur is balanced
Radio is his hobby. He never allows it to
interfere with any of the duties he owes to
his home, his job, his school or his

§6 - The amateur is patriotic
His knowledge and his station are always
ready for service of his country and his

Posted by SSBER on September 13, 2018

a hoot
Trump shuts down NIST and dimwits blame the
great and powerful O'. What a joke.

Posted by SSBER on September 12, 2018

a hoot
Trump shuts down NIST and dimwits blame the
great and powerful O'. What a joke.

Posted by SSBER on September 12, 2018

This is an effort by the Obamahole holdovers to make people as uncomfortable as possible. When they had the budget shutdown, they closed the National Parks and monuments, but didn't shut down the rest of the government. When the last shutdown hit, I tried to find evidence of it, but was unable. (Disclaimer, I receive Social Security and a small govt. pension, and they didn't stop).

Posted by W0BCG on September 12, 2018

I agree with many of the comments stated previously. 6
million is chump change to keep this still useful service
I enjoy demonstrating WWV to non hams. Most "normal"
people have no idea this sort of service exists.

Posted by KA9HXD on September 11, 2018

My computer isn't connected to the
internet and is only used for digital.
Without a time source over the
telephone I'll have to search for CHU.

Posted by BURGERLOVER65 on September 11, 2018

I agree with an earlier reviewer, this was a poorly designed

I occasionally use WWV to check radio propagation when I first
turn on my radio.

This is a good, inexpensive backup to our GPS systems which
are subject to EMP disruption of service. Analog still works
when digital fails. This is well worth the $6 Million price tag.

Posted by KN7AT on September 10, 2018

Although the HF distribution of time is not as accurate as
we now have with GPS, the GPS system is highly
subject to a single point of failure. Imagine the chaos
that would ensue to our modern society if time
synchronization and distribution were lost. Indeed,
without GPS, it may not even be possible to restore a
lost GPS service if 24 satellites needed to be rebuilt and
launched. It would take many years to restore that
system if lost. WWV and WWVB should be retained as a
backup, not quite as good, system for time distribution.

Posted by W3SEH on September 10, 2018

I agree about the poll. I use WWV to set my older Tymeter clocks. I also use it to align some of my radios. It is old technology but WWVB is the atomic clock standard and required by many clocks.

Dave K4JRB

Posted by K4JRB on September 10, 2018

Poorly designed poll.

Posted by CHALUPA on September 9, 2018

We need another check box for those use all three stations.

I use WWVB to set my clocks, and WWV to check propagation.

Posted by WB9TPA on September 9, 2018

Biased selections
Once again this Survey sucks as over half of the selections are NEGATIVE to the subject. It is obvious the position of the survey maker.

eHAM what is your agenda here?

Posted by N6JSX on September 9, 2018

WWV, WWVH etc.
IMHO, these standard frequencies are
excellent propagation beacons, similar (but
not equivalent) to the well-known 14.100 KHz
AR transmissions around the world. We hams
can complain about their anticipated
shutdown, but what is the rationale behind
this planning? A matter of money only or the
result of a well-designed and well-
implemented international survey?

Posted by PA0HEL on September 8, 2018

A Drop In A HUGE Bucket
The Fed can fritter that amount away during a
long, lunch break.

Posted by KG4RUL on September 8, 2018

I use WWV to set my clocks and see what propagation looks
like. If I can hear WWV or WWVH then I know I can get some
QSOs so I fire up my rig. Are there other propagation
indicators out there? Sure. But a quick WWV check is VERY
convenient. Do I think fot one minute our fed will spend 6
million bucks to benefit me and other users? Why would they
do that when they can spend that much and more on things
which are totally useless? It is all about politics. Maybe they
will siphon that money off to the Clinton Foundation. Looks like
I will use my cell phone to set my clocks and listen elsewhere
to see if the bands are open to someplace or another.

Posted by K7NSW on September 8, 2018

I could set my ship's radio room clock by one
of those stations wherever we were in the
world. I use it at home often. It's also
nice to have it going at the stroke of
midnight on New Year's!

Posted by K7ZX on September 8, 2018

wwv, etc.
the thing that bothers me is that the rural
utilities service is over a billion per year.
it was a good thing in the 1930's and
1940's,but the work has been done. Why not
get rid of it and leave wwv,etc. alone.

Posted by N7TEE on September 8, 2018

I use them occasionally for frequency calibration. I'm not sure my use is worth $6 million a year however. I can make do with my signal generator if I need to.

Posted by AA4PB on September 7, 2018

Radio Amateurs who are "throwing stones" at NIST broadcasts because they feel they're "Old Technology" should be reminded that they are doing so from "glass houses", and that the same arguments about the virtues of cellular and internet technologies can be used to call into question the merits of the Amateur Radio Service in today's GPS/Cellular/Internet-driven world.

I routinely use WWV and WWVH to check HF propagation, and use WWVB as my primary frequency standard and to automatically set my PC's clock.

WWV provides Solar Terrestrial Forecasts that I find beneficial as an Amateur Radio Operator.

Over the years, I have employed both WWV and WWVB to conduct ionospheric propagation studies, and made use of WWVB during the 2017 solar eclipse to measure changes to the Earth's 'D' Layer.

Being able to LISTEN to the time broadcast by WWV while my eyes are focused on some OTHER event that I am actively observing is a great asset as well.

Taken as a whole, these (admittedly mundane) operations are in full alignment with FCC Part 97.1 (b), (c), (d), and (e).

To perform these tasks with GPS/Cellular/Internet technologies would either be impossible, impractical, or cost FAR more to any single individual than the minuscule tax burden imposed by WWV, WWVH, and WWVB operations to any single individual over a lifetime.

Posted by KD2BD on September 7, 2018

Shutdown WWV and WWVH ??
I hope if the Government decides to shut these Stations down-- that there would be an alternative to use and usable in the event that GPS goes down. And, what about the Time Stations in other Countries? '73 George AA7LX.

Posted by AA7LX on September 7, 2018

your cell phone is a GPS clock.

Posted by K6AER on September 7, 2018

They are useful and I like to find them when I Short Wave Listen when traveling, lets me know my radio is working. I do like getting the Solar Indices direct from these stations however.

Anymore I set my clocks using my GPS these days. When outside the US my clocks that use the time signals, usually do not set to the broadcast time signals, what a shame.

Posted by WA0TML on September 6, 2018

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